Sleepy Joe would be able to get away with much worse.
the media is posing #resistance to Dotard’s attempts to crack down, because Orange Man bad. The bible stunt may have prevented a military crackdown by causing everyone to go along with a strategy of blaming Dotard
People calling out Biden critics for being bad ‘lefties’.
Not trying to be a narc, but as admin’s have said before, memes like this belong on !shitliberalssay@lemmygrad.ml or !memes@lemmygrad.ml . I think we are trying to maintain !communism@lemmygrad.ml like r/communism was, more serious discussion and no memes.
I don’t necessarily see the problem with this argument. Anyone care to discuss?
A key component of social fascism
Firstly harm mitigation is vomit
Secondly a case can be made that were you to degrade yourself to “harm mitigation” a case can be made that Trump is the ‘lesser’ evil than the “prostitute of big donors”
Trump has
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hastened the decline of US empire
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Trump has not started a major war - a point made by Bolton who threw his toys out of the pram after years of thinking he could politic the Trump cabinet into a new major war in Venezuela and Iran. Bolton, the neofascist war hawk, who is now championed by democrats as a “resister” to Trump
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Obama took Bush’s 3 wars to 7 (Biden is currently taking credit for the Obama administration)
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Concentration camps on Mexico border started under Obama (again Biden is taking credit for the Obama admin)
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under obama\Biden they prosecuted more whistle blowers than all previous presidents combined. You are insane if you think they won’t up the ante on secret police. This is something all neoliberal governments have been doing and is not unique to Trump
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Trump has legitimised DPRK on the world stage by meeting with Kim Jong Un
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Have basically made regime change impossible in Venezuela through sheer incompetence with the bay of piglets
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All countries deemed “enemies” want another Trump term as he’s destroying US imperialism. I don’t see how a principled socialist can align their foreign policy with US and not China (one has 800+ military bases worldwide the other has 3)
You’re job as a socialist is to bring down US empire. You live on the death star. How ridiculous would it be to “improve the wages” of the storm troopers on the death star for instance?
If you wish to prostitute your morals by voting Biden don’t let me stop you. Specially after the Dems ratfucked Bernie (again).
But that’s basically the core of social fascism - hoping for those sweet succdem gains paid for on the backs of dead bodies piled up from imperialism or the capitalist gulags providing your food\fruit\chocolate\minerals for high technology\prawns etc. whilst voting for a neocon who will probably start another 3 major wars, restrict your civil rights and liberties even further
I agree but I am not a general harm-reduction advocate. I originally decided there would be a better environment for leftists if Trump won but labeling AntiFa terrorists and his federal police crackdown changed my mind. I completely agree that it needs to be stated that a vote is barely the beginning of political advocacy whenever discussing electoralism but on principle I hold the aforementioned position on Biden v. Trump. (Not that leftists could swing this election even if voting as an organization lol) What do you think?
You need to have a broader picture of where society is going outside electoral nonsense
The trend is further restricting civil liberties, further concentration camps on the Mexico border and dehumanisation, further forever war, the tightening of capital over labour, the further ruin of working people
Once you accept this you realise it does not matter which mask the US wears: a Biden or Trump one
The only difference is that the Trump mask is extra shitty and you can see the whole facade beneath US empire which is why the competent imperialists want him out for another Obama.
You should also realise the US economy is collapsing as we speak and that some of the movements going to arise from it will be a bigger sea change than any social fascism sex offender you feel you need to vote for
Whether the movements are a positive or a reactionary nature depends on organising now
Well said! I have often considered these points myself. Especially what is best for the rest of the world and what may hasten the decline of US empire. Because it cannot be reformed and any efforts to help it stave off demise are counter-revolutionary and counter-productive.
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How do you think Biden will deal with an uprising within the US? At a certain point even Bernie would call in the national guard to put us down
I also think harm mitigation is fine. Protesters are literally being kidnapped off the street by anonymous federal agents. That’s reason enough to vote for the other geriatric. If you live in a swing state. I don’t live in a swing state so I’ll probably vote for some communist party’s nominee. idk which one, but it doesn’t really matter since there’s a 0% chance of a communist winning anyway.
the problem with the concept of “harm mitigation” is that that’s a liberal narrative, based on the ludicrous idea that the democrats wouldn’t themselves send special forces units to kidnap protesters off the street. Biden would, without a doubt, do many of the same things Trump’s done. Just, with a slightly more acceptable face.
It’s important that we reject electoralism, it’s brain rot in its purest form. No amount of voting or “oh the next generation will be smarter” (including that part because it’s often put hand in hand with pro-electoralist arguments) will save us from late-stage capitalism. Instead, we need to focus our efforts on growing our leftwing orgs and put more effort into growing radical ideology. Neither Biden nor Bernie would care to fix things, instead, we’re forced to utilize violent revolution. And it’s well past time for us to acknowledge that.
What are they these godforsaken succdem comments in here. I thought this was a fucking communist website
Since I’ve been here, the user base has more than doubled. The trade-off to becoming the alternative to reddit’s banned subs is that political spectrum of users becomes more diverse. Nonetheless, this is an ML platform, and our principles will not be diluted.
This is actually quite encouraging. A month ago, we’d be lucky to hit 10 comments on a single post. Now we’re hitting more than 10 rather regularly.
voting is lit https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch07.htm
Although I will concede that Lenin was referring to a communist party, and Biden is very, very, very far from that, however I don’t think that we need to completely reject electoralism. If I’m misunderstanding Lenin then please correct me, but it seems to me that electoralism is not at all incompatible with pursuing communism.
neither Biden nor Bernie would care to fix things, instead, we’re forced to utilize violent revolution. And it’s well past time for us to acknowledge that.
I actually agree. Voting is not a method to enact change. Voting will not end capitalism. Voting doesn’t do very much at all. But fascists vote. And if only fascists vote, then that would be a problem. That said, feel free not to vote. I won’t judge you.
I wrote up a whole long thing, then clicked off the window and everything I wrote was gone. And I don’t really wanna put in as much effort the second time around. But, I guess I have to at least try to make the same point again.
Some of Lenin’s writings only really translate 1:1 to the situation of Russia in the early 1900s, the bits about voting don’t really translate - or “remould” if you would - well to the American situation today. His writings on it could translate, if we lived in a system that provided us with an inkling of real democracy on the office of the president. But, unfortunately, we live in a system that “bread and circuses” us on the election and only really gives a vote to the American-bourgeois class of the Electoral College. The proletariat is entirely isolated from democracy on that level, which makes the concept of reducing harm via democracy a bit of a galaxy brained approach to the whole affair.
Getting into politics is, of course, important. But, unfortunately, we could spend all of our time backing a candidate. We could hand out flyers, we could invest in the candidate directly. And none of it would matter if the Electoral College didn’t like them. So, instead, it’s much wiser to take your “harm mitigation” to grassroots activism. Join a soup kitchen, start a book club, run a charity, join your closest leftwing party. Expecting the state to do a tenth of what you’re capable of is delusional, you have the power and ability to actually help people - something the state will continue to refuse to do until we tear it down.
The Social-Democrat’s political paralyzation, their “wait until the cows come home” attitude with electoralism, is a poison that too often drips into radical movements. And that shit needs to be destroyed before it kills the momentum of the movement. Why do you think black people in the US still aren’t treated as equals? the easy answer: because every time a movement is built for their benefit, socdem step in and start saying shit like “yes, use that energy at the polls” and dismantle momentum. Electoralism is a liberal lie, and as I said, reject it.
I do worry that I might be applying Lenin’s writing where it’s not necessarily applicable. Lenin was, of course, writing about getting communists into Constituent Assembly, and here I am talking about getting some goddamn conservative into the White House because he’s less of a fascist than the one we’ve got right now…
The fact of the matter is that on January 20th, either Joe Biden or Donald Trump will be president. It’s an Alien vs Predator election. No matter who wins, we lose. That said, we still get to decide who it is we lose to. Basically I just don’t want us to cede electoralism to fascists. Anyway I’ve said my piece so I’ll let it go but maybe I’ll make a post over on /c/leftistinfighting later if I feel like picking this up again.
are literally being kidnapped off the street by anonymous federal agents. That’s reason enough to vote for the other geriatric.
don’t know why you think that wouldn’t happen under biden
Are people forgetting that the shootings and tear gassing in major US cities were authorized by democrat governors?
My thoughts almost exactly lol
Lmao.
