Look. There was a lot of leftists out here giving the GoP too much shine and too much rub with their claiming of the Donbass war money funneling is wrong.
If the red wave happened; they would NOT have ended the funneling of weapons and cash to the ukraine.
They would have blamed the dems for starting shit and causing a moral trap and NOW we cant pull out because we have to RELUCTANTLY fight the Russians instead of being enthusiastic about it.
And Im frankly done playing along with the anti imperialist left giving the GoP way too much credit simply because the republicans are morally lucky and currently morally advantaged.
These MAGA politicians are not some right wing populist thing that we should BELIEVE them about their whole anti war posturing. Stop. They’re full of shit and just as fake as the squad and Bernie.
Don’t worry, they are doing it simply to be contrarians, thats just how US politics work. I assure you if Trump won in 2020 and was the current president, I would bet all my money that the roles would be reversed and the entire GoP would be salivating for war.
they literally all voted for the weapons shipments, except Rand Paul, the token Libertarian.
Gonna be real comrade, this is a good wake-up call. I’ve felt upset that the GoP and extremists within like Marjorie Taylor Greene were “right” on this issue, and maybe even thought at times that that sort of rhetoric is good even when it comes from vile places. It’s not, though. It just makes genuine anti-imperialism look like right-wing conspiracism and has bolstered the dems in their cooptation of leftist sounding rhetoric. The most important point you made is that they’re lying. They’re all liars.
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Yeah. Look. If you want to get to the truth of the matter; the GOP is just as open to making money as the dems. Between doing the right thing and coming up with a plausible excuse to continue doing this… I mean come on.
The GOP is NEVER shown any of us a moment where they cared for human life. And neither has the dems.
And I know what leftists would say. " Oh I know they are lying, but im reaching across the table by giving the GOP credit to build a common gound with the GOP base."
Okay. Step back and think about that. What is the most likely thing to happen? Would the GOP base join you in antiwar OR take this opportunity to siphon off anti war leftists to give votes to the GOP? Cmon. Even their most commin base is gonna use the anti war left as a chance to get votes for the GOP from the left and gain an electoral victory for the GOP. They’re not going to join you in the streets if they had a choice.
We aren’t going to trick right wing lumpen reactionaries by playing footsies. They’re just as motivated to their historical project and vision as any ML. They arent dumb.
Great points. To be clear on my end I never supported any of that patsoc garbage, but you have certainly made me reconsider why (as in, I hate patsoc shit with more clarity after reading this)
You’re so right about the ideological passion self-identified right wingers have. It’s easy to say that they’re just brainwashed, but the difference between them and your common ‘apolitical’ but sympathetic lib that we can actually educate is that they watch the news, they read articles (Fox articles, usually), they follow fascists on twitter and Facebook. They consider themselves “political”, politically engaged. Their ideology is obviously shaped for them by a reactionary superstructure and that’s the true culprit, but they absolutely have ideological drive and a zealous obedience to their leaders. It’s not worth wasting your time trying to convince majority petit-bourgeois, brainwormed fuckers who make up a fraction of the population, when there are millions of non-voting, “apolitical” proletarians so incredibly close to becoming radicalized.
Yeah. PatSocs very SERIOUSLY underestimate how much the whole culture war matters to reactionaries. They already take neoliberal capitalism as a forgone conclusion. No sense in dwelling on capital because to them, the matter is settled. So now… All they have as an answer to the contradictions of capital is to deploy the state to hurt the “weak and undesireables”.
So if anyone wants to pretend culture war stuff is illusionary and bullshit and the reactionaries know it; then how does anyone explain why these people go out of their way to modify their vehicles to roll coal? Is that supposed to be light hearted ribbing against people who are unreasonably concerned about that kind of thing?
They don’t take the oppression of others seriously. They never have.
Marjorie Taylor Greene
The sheet amount of times I’ve seen this grifter posted on pro-Russian channels as “speaking truth” and “finally someone sensible in US” is frankly horrifying
And don’t forget if GOP was in power they’d be sending in the guns and the dems would be crying crocodile tears about the Nazis. It’s all a game for them.
That’s why morality has no place in analyzing politics or politicians. It is a Machiavellian game that’s just for power, money and popularity. The gop just happens to have more rhetorical flexibility than dems do on this issue.
When either dems or gop says anything rational it’s not bc they are moral or superior in any way, they are just saying it to get more updoots and to weaken the opposition. It’s pure happenstance that anything they say is “moral” or correct.
If any leftists think there is anything moral in US politics then they’re really confused and not really leftist.
I don’t think anyone believes the GOP has an antiwar stance out of humanitarian or benevolent reasons. They rather the war be against Iran or China. A lot of right wingers see Putin as conservative, Christian, and white (which kinda true) who they can ally with against china (why they think Russia would do this, idk), because china is the ultimate target of both parties if the empire is to retain global hegemony.
Edit: the entire political establishment was chomping at the bits to destroy Venezuela and Cuba during their recent upheavals. Anyone who thinks anyone in American politics is antiwar, they need to do some thinking.
Im gonna push back on this point. I dont think conservatives would end support of the ukraine over a sense of white identity.
It’s hard to believe conservatives would pass up on war profiteering.
Now if and when Russia defeats the ukraine; I could MAYBE see conservatives inviting Russia into NATO… If there even is a NATO after all this and spin it as a historic moment for peace in the world.
Maybe a lot of conservatives a naiive?
Some not all conservatives do in fact see it that way unfortunately. But, in terms of material benefit, it is as you mentioned: they know Russia is not really a rival, but China is (this part has little to do with white identity).
I base this hypothesis off the following article:
https://www.newsweek.com/china-threat-state-department-race-caucasian-1413202
Just to further elaborate on your point: folks from outside the US who don’t follow US politics and USAmericans who have not yet been conscious for a couple US elections cycles, at times, take what members of either major party say far too seriously. They may see some ’new’ GOP anti-war talking point as novel when in reality it’a just further empty catering to the anti-war opinion generally held by the majority of USAmericans at any given time. But believing there is any separation between the two major US parties on ‘international affairs’ is incorrect. Those aren’t political decisions to be made with input from the public or the vast majority of politicians for that matter. In the US, people get to (indirectly by supporting some lizard who will undoubtedly say anything to get elected) vote on whether or not it’s appropriate for members of minority groups to be openly tortured, but that’s about it. Economics and international affairs are completely outside of the political sphere.
Tell 'em
