I feel like the sex trade issue is one of the most divisive issues out there. I find people so candidly talking about it, from jokes about pimping people out being regular, to others admitting that they distribute pornogrophy on multiple platforms as a hobby. I dont remember people being routinely candid about this until the past year or so. I mean that could be prosecuted in some countries I think. Maybe im unlucky?

I feel like questioning when it comes up it is as divisive as conversations about China/Russia human rights, or religion. And I hear this from anyone, from my coworkers who are entreched in the gig economy to gender studies phd students in the ivory tower. There is no greater can of worms than saying maybe distributing porn is a net loss for humanity, or paying for porn doesn’t make things more ethical, yet it seems so painfully obvious to me that it would not even need to be said.

I get that this is mostly just the liberal take im seeing its just strange that there is such a lively consensus. People are so bold and just assume others believe the same as them. And the irony is unbearable, a fun time of dunking on libertarians routinely preceeds glorifying the sex trade. Do other people see this where they live or is it just me? I feel like my partner and I, and a few maoists I know are the only ones I know that are sex trade abolitionists.

  • Camarada ForteMA
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    191 year ago

    Unfortunately, it’s not just you, the discourse on the prohibition of pornography and the sex trade is absolutely dominated by liberal ideology. Many women defend the idea to “regulate” pornography/sex trade, and most of them are fooled by the underwhelming minority of women who get rich on OnlyFans. The idea of abolishing pornography production and distribution is inconceivable here in Brazil

  • DankZedong A
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    171 year ago

    Because a lot of people have no idea what the sex trade is about. About 99.99% of the women and men and x in this ‘trade’ are trafficked.

    I’m of the opinion that if you want to have sex with a lot of people you should and if you want to film yourself having sex and upload it for people to watch you should.

    But sex work should be abolished. I always talk to these libs from my own perspective as someone that has worked with victims of human trafficking. They just fail to realize that human trafficking makes up the absolute majority of sex work.

    Most of them just reason from the POV of womens rights to do whatever you want, anti puritan views, feminism etc. but it’s just not the reality and it never will be. There is no realistic amount of women/men/x to participate in the sex trade to get to the number of people involved in it now. That’s just a liberal fantasy. If this shit was taken serious 99% of the people would escape the trade.

  • SovereignState
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    131 year ago

    The sex trade is like 1% people who make a living posting porn online, 1% rich white feminists who love doing it, and 98% trafficked, underage and/or starving people. The 98% goes by the wayside in all conversation in favor of the 2%. The idea that a majority of people in the sex trade want out and don’t believe “sex work is real work” worth upholding or maintaining as an industry never crosses the mind of the liberal feminist, nor does the sexpat-pedo cancer on the world.

    When you go to Peru and are offered by indigenous 13-16 year old girls with their ribs poking out of their skirts “private massages”, begging you to accept for mere dollars, you’ll understand what a blight the sex trade is.

    I recommend the Marxist feminist podcast “Probably Canceled”. They have some takes I’m a little cold to on things like polyamory and kink and whatnot, but even on those ideas they’ve forced me to think harder about them. The main draw, for me, is their excellent deconstruction of the sex trade and scientific dismantling of (neo-)liberal feminist talking points about “empowerment”, etc.

    • SovereignState
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      1 year ago

      Before my words are twisted: it’s worth noting that prohibition via imprisonment of those in the sex trade is a catastrophic and majorly anti-woman (not always women) and majorly anti-victim reaction. There’s a tendency to paint “SWERFs” as, well, “sex worker exclusionary radical feminists”, rather than what they typically are, feminists who support victims getting out of the sex trade. This is to be done by eliminating poverty, harsh sanctioning and punishing of Johns and pimps, and offering free and accessible vocational training to people currently in the sex trade, as well as a legally enshrined guarantee of non-punishment for being in the sex trade.

      A common argument I hear from those in favor of prostitution is “well disabled, ugly and old people need and deserve sex, too!” How utterly ableist, ageist and borderline fetishistic to assume that these people couldn’t have sex or worthwhile relationships without paying for them. What needs to be done is the destruction of an ableist and individualist society and the creation of one that will allow these groups to prosper in their communities and create meaningful romantic and friendly connections with others. Not state-sanctioned prostitution rings. Also, hate to break it to anyone that thinks this, sex is not a basic human necessity or right. You’d think groups that pretend to understand consent and often claim that men have no inherent right to women’s bodies would actually understand this, but many of them seemingly don’t. The state should not exist to give you a girlfriend.

  • @CriticalResist8A
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    1 year ago

    It’s popular in our petty bourgeois self-validating societies. All socialist countries have banned “sex work”* and I am pretty sure it’s not anywhere near popular there. I.e. I don’t think anyone in China is making a platform out of legalising prostitution again.

    * I don’t use the term sex work following some reading I did, because it’s just too large a field to apply one term to it. Trafficked women forced into prostitution face completely different material conditions from petty bourgeois onlyfans stars publishing from the safety of their homes.

  • @holdengreen
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    101 year ago

    sex for money sounds inherently coercive to me… I think pornography in some form or another has prob been around for a long time maybe not inherently a problem… but the ‘industry’ (already a problem there) is a bit yikes imo

  • I think that the few people (adults) who actually choose to do sex work – meaning that everything they do is their own decision, as far as it’s possible to make your own decisions under capitalism – should be free to do so, through OnlyFans and the like (although the capitalists who actually own OnlyFans are obviously exploiting their workers, so it would be much better with a co-op arrangement). That also includes erotic artwork, but I think that needs separate regulation to prevent the really disgusting and potentially scarring works – e.g. depictions of pedophilia absolutely shouldn’t be legal just because the person depicted isn’t real, in my opinion

    (basically, I more or less agree with my fellow rodent)

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    • DankZedong A
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      111 year ago

      Mom, the commies are doing that wall of text thing again

    • ⚧️TheConquestOfBed♀️
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      I think queer people might have a weird relationship with this topic because we’ve been dependent on sex work to simply be allowed to exist for…a really long time. Taking it away almost feels like chopping down your safety net for when discriminatory hiring prevents you from getting a “real” job. There was a time when I would’ve fought tooth-and-nail to be allowed to do sex work because I was scared to death of ending up homeless. It would’ve felt like taking away my right to eat and have a roof over my head.

      But that is kinda the central point of what we’re discussing. I think it’s fine as a ‘hobby’, but being able to have a hobby like that in the first place already connotes a certain level of privilege. When it comes from a place of necessity, I think we should help people get out without condemning them (like your friend didn’t do it forever, she worked long enough to get out).

      But imo straight/cis dudes don’t really seem to have the…finesse to talk about this sort of thing in a way that doesn’t sound like conservative moralizing. They go off on hate the sin love the sinner tangents but go full paternalistic when outlining their justifications. And tbh it rubs me the wrong way like anti-queer patsocs just being “concerned” about the direction society is going. And talking about women and queer people being “duped” into it like we’re children, it’s just so fucking demeaning. Like, omg, she was too much of a bimbo to realize that getting naked for people might be invasive.

      I’d prefer if the conversation were spearheaded by former sexworkers, women, and queer people (basically anyone with skin in the game) rather than observers who are using the rhetoric to feel morally superior to libs. I appreciate the links to actual SW blogs in this thread, even, but at this point I don’t even want to talk to men about it because it’s exhausting.

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    • @CountryBreakfastOP
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      01 year ago

      Id say onlyfans serves is a massive grooming/pimping service that puts people in danger of being trafficked. It is much more than labor exploration. It creates a dependcy and it has gravity to it, especially if employers wont hire them after they’ve done porn. It sucks people in. I dont see how it is harmless enough to be left standing, even as a coop. I dont see how it’s entirely different from the porn industry. My guts tells me it just seems like a commercial to say so, just a slick corporate profile. Obviously im happy to listen more on this issue.

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    • @CountryBreakfastOP
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      -21 year ago

      Its always decided for women what they should be doing and that energy (maybe it’s just how it’s presented and I’m overreacting) seems very “men will decide for women what women do again” and it always feels steeped in trad attitudes to women and relationships and i find that sus tbf, can we include them in these chats?

      All of my views on this topic come from women. My opposition to onlyfans or any other techno pimping & grooming service comes from women that have patiently explained to me why its not ok for men to encourage/support women putting their bodies on the market. So in terms of my perspective, you are speaking through me and to a strawman.

  • ButtigiegMineralMap
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    91 year ago

    https://proletarianfeminist.medium.com/a-socialist-feminist-and-transgender-analysis-of-sex-work-b08aaf1ee4ab https://proletarianfeminist.medium.com/the-problem-with-the-phrase-sex-work-is-work-bdac613eb2f0 Once I read these two articles by Esperanza, There was not even an inkling in my mind that prostitution is acceptable for any reason. I had figured that prostitution was not my business so I shouldn’t speak on it, but after reading these, I find it impossible to stay silent when the topic comes up.

    • @panic
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      71 year ago

      Esperanza is a good writer and shows an amazing knowledge about (Marxist) feminism