Before my words are twisted: it’s worth noting that prohibition via imprisonment of those in the sex trade is a catastrophic and majorly anti-woman (not always women) and majorly anti-victim reaction. There’s a tendency to paint “SWERFs” as, well, “sex worker exclusionary radical feminists”, rather than what they typically are, feminists who support victims getting out of the sex trade. This is to be done by eliminating poverty, harsh sanctioning and punishing of Johns and pimps, and offering free and accessible vocational training to people currently in the sex trade, as well as a legally enshrined guarantee of non-punishment for being in the sex trade.

A common argument I hear from those in favor of prostitution is “well disabled, ugly and old people need and deserve sex, too!” How utterly ableist, ageist and borderline fetishistic to assume that these people couldn’t have sex or worthwhile relationships without paying for them. What needs to be done is the destruction of an ableist and individualist society and the creation of one that will allow these groups to prosper in their communities and create meaningful romantic and friendly connections with others. Not state-sanctioned prostitution rings. Also, hate to break it to anyone that thinks this, sex is not a basic human necessity or right. You’d think groups that pretend to understand consent and often claim that men have no inherent right to women’s bodies would actually understand this, but many of them seemingly don’t. The state should not exist to give you a girlfriend.

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Mom, the commies are doing that wall of text thing again

I think queer people might have a weird relationship with this topic because we’ve been dependent on sex work to simply be allowed to exist for…a really long time. Taking it away almost feels like chopping down your safety net for when discriminatory hiring prevents you from getting a “real” job. There was a time when I would’ve fought tooth-and-nail to be allowed to do sex work because I was scared to death of ending up homeless. It would’ve felt like taking away my right to eat and have a roof over my head.

But that is kinda the central point of what we’re discussing. I think it’s fine as a ‘hobby’, but being able to have a hobby like that in the first place already connotes a certain level of privilege. When it comes from a place of necessity, I think we should help people get out without condemning them (like your friend didn’t do it forever, she worked long enough to get out).

But imo straight/cis dudes don’t really seem to have the…finesse to talk about this sort of thing in a way that doesn’t sound like conservative moralizing. They go off on hate the sin love the sinner tangents but go full paternalistic when outlining their justifications. And tbh it rubs me the wrong way like anti-queer patsocs just being “concerned” about the direction society is going. And talking about women and queer people being “duped” into it like we’re children, it’s just so fucking demeaning. Like, omg, she was too much of a bimbo to realize that getting naked for people might be invasive.

I’d prefer if the conversation were spearheaded by former sexworkers, women, and queer people (basically anyone with skin in the game) rather than observers who are using the rhetoric to feel morally superior to libs. I appreciate the links to actual SW blogs in this thread, even, but at this point I don’t even want to talk to men about it because it’s exhausting.

Id say onlyfans serves is a massive grooming/pimping service that puts people in danger of being trafficked. It is much more than labor exploration. It creates a dependcy and it has gravity to it, especially if employers wont hire them after they’ve done porn. It sucks people in. I dont see how it is harmless enough to be left standing, even as a coop. I dont see how it’s entirely different from the porn industry. My guts tells me it just seems like a commercial to say so, just a slick corporate profile. Obviously im happy to listen more on this issue.

Its always decided for women what they should be doing and that energy (maybe it’s just how it’s presented and I’m overreacting) seems very “men will decide for women what women do again” and it always feels steeped in trad attitudes to women and relationships and i find that sus tbf, can we include them in these chats?

All of my views on this topic come from women. My opposition to onlyfans or any other techno pimping & grooming service comes from women that have patiently explained to me why its not ok for men to encourage/support women putting their bodies on the market. So in terms of my perspective, you are speaking through me and to a strawman.

Esperanza is a good writer and shows an amazing knowledge about (Marxist) feminism