Who gave the US the power to reject negotiation proposals between Ukraine and Russia? I thought Ukraine is an independent and sovereign country defending itself from an invading force. Who’s the US to say what Ukraine can and can’t meet to discuss?
Who gave the US the power to reject negotiation proposals between Ukraine and Russia?
The CIA, when they couped Ukraine’s leadership. It’s just a puppet state acting in America’s interests now.
Oh, the burger crackers took that power themselves. No one ceded it to them.
Indeed they did, as they always do. I just can’t stand burger crackers insisting that Ukraine is a sovereign nation, while at the same time their trusted media and government openly admit that the shots are being called from Washington and not Kiev.
Who gave the US the power to reject negotiation proposals between Ukraine and Russia?
No one, that’s what Washington is saying on the article, responding to a plea from Putin for the US to come to the negotiations table.
The “proposal” made by Putin was addressed to the US. The US said it’s not on us, you should talk to Ukraine.
So I believe right now you are agreeing with Washington and disagreeing with Putin, correct?
My question is why is the US rejecting anything, isn’t that a war between Russia and Ukraine?
That’s the reason they’re rejecting it. From the article:
“Barring a Ukrainian demand signal” for peace talks, “there’s unlikely to be a push from Washington,” he said.
Is anybody actually so naive as to believe that Ukraine has any say in this?
https://news.gallup.com/poll/512258/ukrainians-stand-behind-war-effort-despite-fatigue.aspx
Key points:
- 60% want to keep fighting until victory (which >90% define as everything including Crimea liberated) – down from 70% about a year ago
- Zelensky’s approval rating is >80%
So not only Ukraine but ukrainians seem to agree with White House’s assessment.
That’s back from October last year, a lot has happened since then such as massive failure of the Ukrainian offensive. However, what Ukrainians want is entirely beside the point. US makes the decisions.
From October of last year after they conscripted… Pretty much everyone who had a problem with the new junta and shipped them off to die at that point. Like, are we gonna take the approval of fuckin Banderites seriously now?
good point
Good. Now also please give them the needed financial support
That’s right, fight to the last Ukrainian. It’s a great investment.
It is a great investment for NATO. At the cost of spare inventory of 2nd tier weapons (which need to be replaced soon), they can broom fuck Russia from a safe distance… And Ukraine is begging for this it’s only polite to help out.
Except that’s not what’s actually happening given that it’s Europe and Ukraine being broom fucked, as you put it. Russian economy is growing, as is its industrial output. Russia has successfully diverted trade away from the west and had no problems finding new trade partners. Russian military output now outpaces all of G7 as western media openly admits. Meanwhile, the regime US installed in Ukraine is sacrificing the country for US interests while scumbags in the west cheer this on.
I would recommend people watch YouTuber “Joe Blogs”, his videos are very informative on this topic. The Russian ruble stayed afloat for a while because the central bank had to spend a lot of money to defend it. They cannot afford this now which is why the currency has tanked. They wanted other countries to use rubles when purchasing Russian product but are in such a weak state they had to accept Yuan’s and rupees. Even if the war ended, Russia has lost its most valuable clients in the west. The Russian government controls economic data so it’s hard to know exactly what is happening with economy. Government military spending has increased which would help but how long can they keep doing this? This is artificially lifting the economy and will end when the war ends. Ukraine claims 400,000 Russian casualties, add the Russians who fled earlier in the war, that’s a huge loss in manpower and skills. I see Russian protesters asking for their soldiers to return home since they’ve served their required terms. How many of those loved ones are dead and what will the reaction be like.
If Russia is winning, why are they asking to negotiate a war they started and have not achieved their goals set for this “3 day special military operation”?
Russian military output is greater than the west? I’m not going to check this because it doesn’t matter. Do we need to worry that Russia has more shit tier equipment for their soldiers? You’re also buying weapons from Iran and North Korea.
I feel sorry for the Ukrainian blood being spilled but NATO can easily afford to continue this war indefinitely. Putin might have a strange hold on Russian necks and your bank account but the numbers are working against him.
This is what happens when you get your information from a guy named Joe Blogs as opposed to actual credible sources. 😂
Russian rouble being low actually creates more domestic profit for the Russian government selling resources. Also, last I checked rouble is trading at 91 to a dollar which is hardly tanked. Given that it’s generally been trading between 80 and 90 to a dollar.
Also, not sure where you got the notion that clients in the west were most valuable to Russia. Trading with countries that aren’t trying to undermine Russia is far more preferable from Russian perspective. It’s the western countries, specifically in Europe, that are most hurt by all this. Hence why Russian economy is growing while Europe is going into a recession.
Hilarious that you call military spending an artificial increase. What does that say about US economy then, weird how nobody applies the same logic there.
Ukraine claims a lot of things, like the Ghost of Kiev. Meanwhile, the only western sources that provides any methodology shows Russian casualties to be at around 43k https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng
Russia is not asking to negotiate the war. What they said from the start is that they’re open to negotiations on their terms which have not changed since the start of the war.
Meanwhile, if you think that NATO can afford to continue the was indefinitely then you have no understanding of how industrial economy works. NATO lacks industrial capacity to produce weapons and ammunition at the rate being spent in Ukraine. This is openly admitted by NATO.
It’s incredible that people still believe all the nonsense you wrote even though western media now openly admits that all this is false.
Also love the implication that you’re a Russian bot “Putin might have a stranglehold on Russian necks and your bank account”
classic liberals
haha right, I love how libs just run around smearing people when they’re unable to muster any actual counterpoint
I was going to reply to all the points you made but I read your source and it is excellent, I will use it in the future. https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng
So you make fun of Joe Blog even though he uses Russian (where available) data and other sources. But let’s use your “reliable” source “which shows Russian casualties of 43,000”. If you had bothered to read more than just the head line you would have seen.
“approximately 47,000 Russians under the age of 50 had died in the Ukraine war. However, these figures represent only a partial account and do not reflect the full extent of the casualties.”
“The actual death toll is likely significantly higher.”
“This week, CIA Director William Burns penned a column in Foreign Affairs estimating the total losses of the Russian army—killed and wounded—at 315,000. At first glance, this figure might seem significantly different from our own count, but in reality, it’s not, and we regard Burns’ estimate as close to the truth.”
“43,000 obituaries found on social networks suggest approximately 80–90,000 actual deaths.”
And the 300k estimate is assuming a 3 to 1 wounded to killed ratio. 90,000 killed and (3 times) 270,000 wounded is from Feb 2nd. On that day Ukrainians were claiming ~387,060 casualties, pretty close to the 360,000 from your reliable source.
Nothing in what you quoted contradicts that they can only account for 43k dead using actual methodology. But even if we took your 90k dead with 270k wounded, that doesn’t paint the picture you’re trying to paint because many of the wounded recover and return to service. What you were clearly trying to insinuate in your original comment was that over 400k soldiers were out of action permanently.
Meanwhile, one simply has to look back through the failed predictions Joe Blogs made over the past year to see that the guy is utterly clueless. It’s incredible how hucksters can make a youtube channel to spew utter nonsense and people will gobble it up uncritically.
I feel sorry for the Ukrainian blood being spilled but
It’s kinda sad innocents are being dragged into the woodchipper but
Why hasn’t the cancer killed the mother fucker already?
It looks like dementia is Biden’s bigger concern at the moment.
Because that was always a propaganda piece, probably.
Why is Putin still trying to negotiate with the empire of lies? The breaking of the Minsk agreements, as well as the fact that the Nazi Arming and Training Organization expanded east despite agreements not to, should have been more than enough proof that the western snakes will always stab you in the back.
The only way this war ends is with the dismantling of the Maidan regime and the demilitarization of Ukraine.
There’s no negotiation needed. Russia moving out of Ukraine and paying for all damage until everything is pre crimea. If that is all done, rebuild and paid for, then, they can negotiate for less punishment on top. That’s the kind of negotiation you start because both sides have something to gain and not one to keep his unjustified war territory.
I don’t know why people keep repeating this given that it’s obviously not happening.
They’ll be saying the exact same thing next year when the war is still going on.
There’s a pretty good chance they won’t be able to keep this up for another year. Ukraine is running out of manpower, and NATO lacks the industrial base to supply weapons at the rate they’re used now that existing stocks are running dry.
On top of that, US is now getting sucked into a war in Western Asia.
I could see it being over by December no matter which candidate wins, especially if Israel succeeds in starting WWIII by enticing the US into direct conflict with… basically all its neighbors? 👀
indeed
Even if there is no punishment on top, if Putin ends up losing all he gained, heads will roll including Putin’s. If he can gain any amount of land in a negotiation and end the war, he can go back to his people and say that it was all worth it and many of them will buy it.
Edit: *many
Has Putin actually called for negotiations? An off-hand comment in a Tucker Carlson interview doesn’t seem quite like a serious offer.
Also it seems like Ukraine and ukrainians are still pretty much supporting war against Russian aggression: https://news.gallup.com/poll/512258/ukrainians-stand-behind-war-effort-despite-fatigue.aspx
Putin has been calling for negotiations since he took power 20 years ago. He’s been appeasing the West and their insistence on marching the world’s first transnational nuclear military to Russia’s borders while asking for negotiations the entire time. In 2014 he ordered the invasion of Crimea in response to USA-backed militias violently taking over Ukraine by storming the capital and forcing the president to flee under threat of death and he was still talking about international agreements and negotiations. Negotiations have always been on the table.
See, there’s this slow motion guillotine hanging over Putin right now, and for each month of successive losses, it’ll slowly be lowered until it reaches his neck.
Then, after a new favourite of the oligarchy and the generals have rubbed a few backs and made a few promises, said favourite will come up from behind and place his foot on the blade to force it through Putin’s neck.
That’s only speculation though.
^ this is your brain on western propaganda
I don’t know which world you live in, Ukraine is in political turmoil rn, while UAF conscripts die en masse.
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This was typed one-handed and cross-posted to the Ask Penthouse column; I can practically hear the lack of lubricant in that dry, crusty beating.
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Counterpoint: the burger reich can still make many more dead Ukrainian bodies to attempt to harm Russia.
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How much ground has Russia gained in the last year?
Also, remember when Russia said they’d get to Kyiv in 2 days? It’s been a long 2 days.
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#BlueAnon report:
- Reporter: [REDACTED]
- Reason: Russky spy, no /s so prolly serious)
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I only post it to share the lulz.
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Not sure, a few dozen it feels like; less than a hundred I think. We usually get a few Chinese or Russian shill/troll/bot complaints from the MSNBC-pilled.
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The negotiation is get the fuck out of Ukraine you blithering waste of flesh.
When can we expect the United States out of the dozens of countries they’ve illegally invaded and neocolonized, then? Can I expect you to sit there and be quiet if another world power decided they wanted to arm and train Mali, Niger, and Burkina Faso to start driving the settler military and its eagerly-tapdancing puppets out of the Motherland the same way you sit on your hands for Ukraine?
Or is this just about maintaining hegemon over the vassals and encircling, then unlimitedly genociding an entity that hasn’t even been Soviet for 40 years?
All part of the attempt to sway the next election. Gives Cucker Tarlson an interview where he (Putin) proceeds to paint all of his actions as a poor humble Russian leader just trying to protect his own people from the big bad Ukranians. Then follows it up with an offer to negotiate peace, which shockingly the evil dictator Biden refuses to do. If only we had someone like the Cheeto Benito who’s interested in peace leading the US, everything would be so much better for everyone! Queue troll farm spamming Twitter
Next time you wanna reverse the flow of your internal plumbing and spew fecal matter all over your keyboard, do it on an account that isn’t a two-week-old keyboard smash. Maybe get some more posts in your history. One could see what this one is from orbit.
Not a single paragraph about the actual demands of Russia. Which they have stated often enough. Basically they don’t want NATO right on their doorstep. This is what this whole war was about. But somehow this is never seriously discussed in western media.
If this war was about having NATO on their doorstep, why is it an invasion of a non-NATO country twenty years after the first neighbours of Russia joined NATO? It’s never seriously discussed because it’s either a lie or unfathomably stupid, and whichever of those two it is doesn’t much matter.
Just for a second, imagine you’re a neutral country in eastern Europe. Russia has been fucking with Georgia and Moldova since the fall of the Soviet Union, and now it invades Ukraine for the second time within a decade. Russia has never touched a NATO country despite bordering several of them for literally decades. And then Russia acts all shocked when you say you want into NATO
Because Europe never invaded Russia through the border at Belarus. They always invade Russia through Ukraine. First Napoleon, then the Third Reich.
Russia was appeasing the fascist West as they expanded their multinational nuclear military without democratic accountability into territories populated with leave-behind armies of fascists that they created. Ukraine was the obvious redline because it is the dominant strategic border, as demonstrated by all European and Russian military strategists in history.
You’re confused about history because you don’t understand it.
Yeah and Russia protested strongly every time. But Ukraine was their red line. Just because you didn’t read it in western media doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I don’t condone the invasion but it was predictable and a colossal “failure” of diplomacy if you look at it charitably. At worst it was a long term plan to force Russia into a conflict with the aid of western media to obscure the reason why this war was happening. Russia is acting just like the US would.
So invading Ukraine fixes what for Russia, exactly? The fastest way to make more of Russia’s neighbours join NATO is to show them that they’re safer in NATO. Like Finland.
Ukrainians mostly weren’t interested in joining NATO until Russia took Crimea. Russia pushed Ukraine towards NATO.
“Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008. Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych”. Then the Euromaiden protests happened. Then Crimea etc.
It’s pretty safe to assume that both Russia and the US meddled in the respective election through NGOs and whatnot. My point is that these are geopolitical games which both sides play and which should be reported as such. Then we’d have a chance to protest for peace negotiations. But as is there is an overwhelming amount of pro-war sentiment.
Public support for joining NATO among polled Ukrainians was very clearly the minority up until Russia invaded.
But as is there is an overwhelming amount of pro-war sentiment.
There’s an overwhelming amount of anti-invasion sentiment. People that support arming Ukraine support Ukraine’s right to not have chunks carved out of it just because its neighbour has a bigger army.
they couldn’t join NATO because of crimea, explain what they really want
What are you talking about? There were no concrete plans for Ukraine to enter NATO prior to the invasion in 2014.
See first paragraph. Russia has protested NATO eastward expansion and warned for decades.
So what? My point was that there were no concrete plans to expand to Ukraine when Putin took Crimea in 2014. If the problem is NATO expansion why invade a country where NATO is not expanding to?
The intent to annex Ukraine as a forward operating base for NATO dates back to the fucking 90s under Clinton. Do you need to see a todo list before you are satisfied? Thank god you’re not responsible for national security of a nation of millions.
I guess ignoring how Ukrainians ran the russian puppet heading their country out of the country just before the Crimean invasion of 2014 is convenient for your point.
Appeasement does not work. It has never worked. It didnt work in Sudetenland, it didnt work in Crimea, and it would never have worked with Donbas, either.
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CW: “Foxes and Wolves” quote
“The white conservatives aren’t friends of the Negro either, but they at least don’t try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the “smiling” fox.” – Malcolm X
Republicans and Democrats descend from the same genetic ancestors: white supremacy and Amerikan exceptionalism. Still a dog, just built different between the two.
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I guess ignoring how Ukrainians ran the russian puppet heading their country out of the country just before the Crimean invasion of 2014 is convenient for your point.
Being willing to trade with Russia at all makes you their puppet apparently.
You mean when the occupiers of Turtle Island couped
PoroshenkoYanukovych and installed a regime full of Banderite proto-nazis on the take from Anglo settlers? Yeah, I remember that; my next door neighbor got his old home ransacked, raided, and eventually flattened by the fighting that came to his city. He barely made it out alive; and STILL has to look up and down the street before he opens his door so we can talk-- just so he can make sure someone’s not trundling down the drive to drag him back. I remember that well.Poroshenko was the puppet they installed, couped one was Yanukovych.
God dammit, I always mix those two names up.
Portraying Russia as Nazis is convenient for your point.
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“appeasement”… “sudetenland” lol who do you think you’re fooling.
Oh no, i compared facsists to other fascists. But keep going with the false equivalences, thats certainly the way to convince the voters thats working for u.
In case u other readers havent been paying attention, russia is still threatening Poland, Lithuania, and Finland just as they have been for their whole history.
Appeasement does not work. It has never worked. It didnt work in Sudetenland
And it didn’t work for Russia when they appeased the USA as they marched NATO all across Eastern Europe and installed nuclear capabilities aimed at Russia. Russia has appeased the USA for too long. They decided to act in Ukraine finally because Ukraine is THE strategic red line. Both Napoleon and The Third Reich invaded Russia through Ukraine because it is strategically the best path. The USA took up nearly every other borderland with Russia except Ukraine, saving it for last, and Russia appeased and appeased. It stopped at Ukraine.
Then turning Ukraine into Russian territory is a bit counter productive no? That would literally bring NATO to Russias doorstep.
They want a buffer zone. Makes sense in terms of military strategy.
While that may or may not be the case this does not permit interference of sovereign state from acting in its own best in own best interest.
Agreed - but it does make it somewhat of an “own goal”. The invasion was predictable. Western PR says it was totally surprising but it wasn’t.
What’s wild is that Western PR was actually saying that Russia was going to invade and Ukraine kept saying that they weren’t.
But NATO already is on their doorstep. Norway, Estonia, Poland etc. Even USA is only a few mils away across the Bering Strait.
This is not about Ukraine joining NATO, that’s a convenience.
That’s just such galaxy brain logic there. We’ve already built up a threat on your doorstep, so you shouldn’t worry about us expanding that threat further. 🤡
Furthermore, Stoltenberg has now publicly admitted that this is in fact about Ukraine joining NATO
You gotta update your script now.
No one ever invaded Russia through Estonia. The last 2 massive invasions that killed millions of Russians were through the border with Ukraine - Napoleon and The Third Reich. You can’t just pretend that every inch of border is equivalent. If you’re going to pretend you know history, at least don’t expose your clear confirmation bias.
which is a perfectly reasonable demand.
but since the US wants blood…
No, demanding your neighbours all remain weak enough for you to continue bullying is not perfectly reasonable at all
as opposed to having your biggest aggressor right in your doorstep?
All of the countries near Russia that joined NATO did so because they already have their biggest aggressor on their doorsteps.
so afraid that they based their energy grids on russian fuel
If buying stuff from the other side is your yardstick, NATO clearly wasn’t a threat to Russia. Germany, Italy, France, and America were all some of Russia’s largest import sources in 2021.
which all sounds really dumb if russia was that big of an aggressor in the first place. either that or you know, they werent.
Yes. Creating co-dependencies and peacetime ties, in hopes of keeping relations normal and peaceful.
so save a couple of things, almost exactly as they have been before motherfuckers started provoking war with russia
My friend it was never about NATO. There is no prospective out there based in fact where NATO has anything to do with it.
OK Yeah that’s a pretty big contradiction to what I’ve been told.
Western media is pure propaganda at this point.
The British news outlet The Guardian: “Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine
By “the Guardian” here what you mean is “an opinion piece from the fucking Cato Institute”
It was an excellent question, and neither the Clinton administration nor its successors provided even a remotely convincing answer.
The answers are South Ossetia, Abkhazia, and Transnistria
Russia said since 2014 this was about NATO. Even before they protested strongly the NATO expansion. So how can it not be about NATO? You’re either completely uninformed or lying.
You have the media literacy of a fly. Not even Russia supporters believe this is about NATO.
Uh… yes, we do? I mean not only about NATO, but definitely also about NATO. Even liberals like Jeffrey Sachs and radlibs like Noam Chomsky and undead ghouls like Henry Kissinger agree.
It’s an element but anyone saying the war was started because of NATO is clearly bullshitting. Now if you were to ask why the war is still going on despite both sides wanting peace, NATO is a pretty succinct and accurate explanation.
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I’m a Lemmygrad Andy, if there’s any tankie in this conversation, it’s me. Person’s on ee they’re probably only parroting outdated propaganda because they’re a neo-reactionary, (or an outright fascist) not because they’re communist.
Putin’s agenda of steering the American right into self-destruction to neutralize their geopolitical opponent is going to result in a lot of lot of neo-fascists hitting themselves out of confusion, so keep your eyes open for that.
Basically they don’t want NATO right on their doorstep.
Have you looked at a map of Europe lately?
Basically they don’t want NATO right on their doorstep.
NATO is not the anti-Russia club. They’re a defensive pact. Why would you be concerned about your neighbours agreeing to defend each other? Like a neighbourhood watch, perhaps. Maybe you’d be upset if you’re planning to do the thing they’re defending against. Which is all the more reason for those neighbours to band together.
NATO was founded pretty much explicitly as the anti-USSR club. And it doesn’t even matter what it factually is - it’s what Russia perceives it as. See their final ultimatum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin’s_December_2021_ultimatum
That’s how Putin claims to perceive it, but that’s also what he would claim if his actual goal was to control his neighbours by force. And don’t forget Finland and Sweden responded to the invasion of Ukraine by joining NATO. If Russia perceived NATO as a threat, then Finland joining would make them more likely to be attacked. Clearly Finland feels NATO is making them safer or they wouldn’t have joined. And since then, Russia has moved tons of their military away from NATO borders and into Ukraine.
In other words, I trust the actions of Finland and Russia more than I trust the words of Russia.
Yes, it couldn’t have gone better if NATO planned this all along.
Yugoslavia would levy a disagreement about NATO’s status as a “defensive pact”; as would every Nazi who’s historically headed that “dEfEnSiVe AlLiAnCe”. They’re just bodies on tap for the Five-Eyed Empire. As offensive as they’re needed, at that.
Unironically believing NATO is a defensive pact.
Wait until you hear what that defensive pact did in Yugoslavia and Libya
You know, you have a point. But I’ll note both instances had the UN request NATO intervention. Russia could have blocked either with their veto in the UN Security Council, but they didn’t.
I mean, no, the UN security council doesn’t have any power, they would have still gone through with the invasion.
Not to mention the actual voting on intervention was in the start of 1992, when the comprador Russian government (the same one btw that got promised by USA they won’t add former socialist countries to NATO) was choking on USA boot.
Because it’s invaders demanding unprotected targets. It’s the dumbest propaganda imaginable. What is it doing in your mouth?
“We want the Stop Russia Invading Shit Alliance to be further away from Russia! To prove we’re serious, Russia will invade countries that aren’t yet part of the alliance.”
I wonder if you guys realize that Russia is achieving it’s war objectives? West-Ukraine won’t join NATO anytime soon, because they know what will happen. This war also has seriously long term destabilizing effects on Europe - at least on their democracies (refugees, tax burden / austerity).
It’s ludicrous to say that Russia’s protests about NATO are bogus - because they protested about it for decades, ever since the US broke their agreement with Gorbachev to not expand NATO eastwards. It’s just a historical fact that you want to alter in order to justify not negotiating. I’m used to these “alternative facts” level of brainwashing from trumpists but not from liberals.
More countries joined NATO, Russia’s slaughtering a generation of Russians, their money is gone, their equipment is gone, and their big scary mercenary force openly tried to overthrow the government. Wow. What victorious progress.
At this rate NATO’s gonna disband because there won’t be a Russia.
I don’t want people like you in my comments but no one acknowledges that. So weird.
I don’t want people like you in my comments but no one acknowledges that. So weird.
Yog has been here for over 4 years, you joined 30 days ago. You can leave anytime.
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Sounds like the kind of ish a settler terrorist would say
Their demands are irrelevant while on the soil of a sovereign nation without authorization or sufficient leverage. Both of which are not only lacking but severely so.
This whole shit storm has been about one thing. Putins legacy as the czar that reformed the USSR. That’s it. He wants to lift the iron curtain high once more. It’s all dick stroking by a madman.
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Every time I tell you what I think of you it gets deleted. So I’ll just say see you next Tuesday.
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U.S. and Ukrainian officials say that the best Ukraine’s military can hope for in the coming year, especially without more American aid, is to defend its current positions. Even so, Biden officials say they are not entertaining the idea of pressing Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, to negotiate with Mr. Putin.
This is the most eloquent. If you can’t fight a war for win, then it’s reasonable to try to gain some better results through negotiations. But the white masters don’t care about the losses of aboriginals.
Sorry… Are Ukrainians the aboriginals in this scenario or are the Russians the aboriginals?
Because I’m pretty sure they’re both descended from Slavs and Vikings.
America will never allow this war to end.
You know who has total power to end this war? Putin. Just get the fuck out of Ukraine and it’s over.
There’s really nothing to negotiate.
This suggestion is shit that totally has a chance of happening and isn’t just idealistic pie in the sky cope from seething natoids. /s
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Putin’s “solution” has been to give him what he wants to stop his invasion. This is how bullies, terrorists, extortionists and facists “solve” problems they create. If you agree with that solution then you’re one or all of those too.
If you’re going to misuse the term “fascist”, at least fuckin spell it correctly. Jesus, and this is supposed to be a representative of the ‘greatest empire on earth’ but ain’t none of its settlers are literate.
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Nothing of what you said is relevant to the situation in Ukraine.
I swear Putin removed are THE most brainwashed “model” citizens that live in dictatorships, parrot the same state/military propaganda and what-about everything they do onto their “enemy” countries.
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Squawk!
They literally were negotiating at the start of the war for this exact outcome: Russia pulls out and Ukraine maintains neutrality.
Johnson threw a wrench in those plans.
Sorry what? You’re blaming Boris Johnson for this now?
One person has the power to put an end to this: the person who started it. Putin.
I’ve seen this Boris Johnson argument several times on here and never once seen anything even remotely approaching a convincing explanation of what leverage Boris ever had to do this. Like a deal for a white peace with Russia was on the table and Boris somehow twisted Zelenskyy’s arm into fighting by threatening to not send weapons that wouldn’t be necessary if there was peace anyway?
It’s an idiotic straw man to claim Johnson had some personal leverage over Ukraine. What’s actually being said is that Bojo was delivering the message from NATO to Ukraine that if they accepted the deal then NATO would not act as their guarantor and they’d be left on their own.
Do you still believe the UK is the empire where the sun never sets?? How the F would the UK even be able to influence these events.
or because all putin has to do is stop invading ukraine. he doesn’t get to invade and then negotiate to keep part of the place he invaded
That’s literally how all negotiations work. Hostage negotiations - you take hostages and then negotiate for benefits in exchange for release. War negotiations - you dominate a space and then negotiate for benefits in exchange for ending violence. Unless you’re the USA, where you dominate a region after the majority of forces are already defeated and then when someone tries to negotiate their surrender you nuke 200k civilians.
Unless you’re the USA, where you dominate a region after the majority of forces are already defeated and then when someone tries to negotiate their surrender you nuke 200k civilians.
Damn when did that happen?? Sounds truly awful
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The USA nuked two civilians cities in Japan DURING negotiations for surrender.
he doesn’t get to invade and then negotiate to keep part of the place he invaded
Are you at all familiar with any history at all? How do you think such treaties usually go? Or did you think borders spent the last couple millenia shifting mysteriously without reason?
The wider international community has largely rejected wars of conquest as legitimate in modern times.
The exact same argument could be applied to Israel and e.g. the Golan Heights, but I don’t think you’ll find that to be a particularly popular position.
The wider international community has largely rejected wars of conquest as legitimate in modern times.
The international community in question:
Are you so naive to think that Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and even the 2013 coup in Ukraine were not acts of conquest of the US empire? Perhaps you’re correct that the wider international community has rejected acts of conquest, but this certainly doesn’t include the USA, who is quite literally a rogue state.
Bad take. Why negotiate with an aggressor who is literally invading and trying to absorb a neighbor. You would be rewarding that behavior and Russia gets to stop their unpopular war at the same time.
Smooth brain take. You can’t negotiate unless there are stakes on both sides. Why are you people so daft?
TIL Vladimir Putin is America’s puppet.
You can just leave.
I’m not a coward.
I’m right where I need to be.
I meant Russia.
Nobody’s keeping them there but them. Blame whatever boogieman you like - it’s their soldiers in someone else’s borders.
No blame here! I’m just stating a fact that the United States doesn’t want this war to ever end. It has a material interest in keeping Russia bogged down as long as possible. This is true regardless of whether you blame Russia or not.
You don’t know what blame is.
Or who controls Russia’s army, apparently.
I understand who controls Ukraine’s army and government and who tells them when they’re allowed to negotiate.
I’m not talking about blame. I thought I made that clear.
What you’re doing is blame whether you call it that or not.
There is nothing to negotiate. Russia invaded and can fuck off at any time. It is entirely up to them.
And nobody told Ukraine not to negotiate. Russia asked America. America is saying: ask Ukraine.
