• ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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        24 days ago

        It’s still possible, but seems like the peak moment has passed, and I think with NGOs getting reigned in things will start looking up.

        • 小莱卡
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          24 days ago

          i think this has been the most ridiculous attempt at a color revolution. seriously, protesting a transparency law ???

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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            24 days ago

            Seriously, it’s been hilarious to watch people in places like reddit try to twist this into something nefarious. Like all of a sudden transparency is bad for democracy. 🙃

    • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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      25 days ago

      Not if you are a socialist or communist…you should really look up who founded, funds, and runs the Georgian Dream party.

      Really makes you wonder why the author of this particular piece of “journalism” decided to omit the role of the most powerful man in Georgian politics in the last 30 years.

      • 小莱卡
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        25 days ago

        geez would be much better if georgians aligned themselves with the very communist NATO.

      • o_d [he/him]
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        25 days ago

        I’m not familiar at all with Georgian politics, but if what you say is true, I do kind of agree that the author should have included some discussion on the matter. That being said, I don’t see how this makes it not “great news”. Regardless of who holds power in Georgia, do you think that having better relations with Russia, its neighbor with which they share a border, will be a bad thing for Georgians?

        • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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          25 days ago

          The author is criticizing the rose revolution, Ivanishvili funded the rose revolution. Ivanishvili represents like half of Georgia’s GDP. This isn’t about Georgians befriending their neighbors, it’s about ivanishvili establishing a regime.

          • o_d [he/him]
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            24 days ago

            As others have said, the article is about Georgia’s decision to strengthen its relationship with Russia at the expense of its relationship with the west. The rose revolution is important to understand Georgia’s current position on this.

            Has IvanishviIi not already established a regime? In what way does improving relations with Russia allow him to further consolidate his power? While I certainly don’t support oligarchy, Georgia’s struggle against western imperialism is surely worth critical support.

            • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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              24 days ago

              Has IvanishviIi not already established a regime? In what way does improving relations with Russia allow him to further consolidate his power?

              I mean part of critical support is actually evaluating what you are supporting. If you had, you would know that ivanishvili has a long history of playing both sides to further his own wealth and power. However, he ultimately is a reactionary puppeteer who always lands on the side that lets him keep his grip on Georgian politics.

              This is just a play to further establish his regime with authoritarian means. He is hoping that if he can make the west fear that he will switch sides, they will let him get away with anything.

              • o_d [he/him]
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                24 days ago

                I’m supporting the decision of the Georgian state to improve relations with Russia, its neigbour and the regional power. I support this because improved relations can lead to security and trade agreements that improve the material conditions of the Georgian working class. If the state ultimately backs away from this decision due to it being a ploy to gain leverage over the west, then I will absolutely be critical of such a move. On the other hand, I can imagine how following through can be beneficial for the ruling class as well and I don’t think that your conclusion is a guaranteed outcome.

              • cfgaussianOP
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                24 days ago

                However, he ultimately is a reactionary puppeteer who always lands on the side that lets him keep his grip on Georgian politics.

                Well yeah, who wouldn’t in that position? And so why exactly wouldn’t such a person choose to realign back towards Russia, or at the very least hedge their bets and try to play both sides, considering that the West has been orchestrating protests and riots aimed at overthrowing this government and Russia has not? This is pretty elementary stuff.

                Once a puppet outlives their usefulness for the US they usually discard and replace them. If that puppet is smart and has any self-preservation instinct they will see it coming and know when it’s time to switch sides.

                The fact that such a switch is even possible is what’s interesting here. Twenty years ago the US was the only game in town. Now no longer.

      • ghost_of_faso2
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        24 days ago

        Not if you are a socialist or communist…you should really look up who founded, funds, and runs the Georgian Dream party.

        Why wouldnt a socialist or communist at least tactifully support a man who was alive during the USSRs soviet era, who wants to normalize relationships with a country alligned with communist ones? (Russia > China)

        The EU is clearly not friendly to communists, half the countries there ban communists from running!

        • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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          24 days ago

          Why wouldnt a socialist or communist at least tactifully support a man who was alive during the USSRs soviet era

          He is one of the “seven bankers” employed by Yeltsin to destroy and sell the communist government… He literally has made billions destroying communism.

          The EU is clearly not friendly to communists, half the countries there ban communists from running!

          And who do you think was the person most responsible for Georgia joining the EU?

          • ghost_of_faso2
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            He is one of the “seven bankers” employed by Yeltsin to destroy and sell the communist government… He literally has made billions destroying communism.

            This is greviances from the 90s, im taking the actions as they are now. We can agree Putin, this billionare are likely opportunistic captialist butchers while still seeing this as a move that benefits communists.

            And who do you think was the person most responsible for Georgia joining the EU?

            Im taking the actions as they are now, even if for cynical reasons breaking up the EU further and moving towards a direction that communism is permitted, and of which the most powerfull member of that bloc is a communist country is progressive.

            • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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              This is greviances from the 90s, im taking the actions as they are now. We can agree Putin, this billionare are likely opportunistic captialist butchers while still seeing this as a move that benefits communists.

              How? The communist/socialist parties in Georgia are part of the opposition groups opposed to the Georgian dream party.

              I don’t buy into the false dichotomy that anything that seemingly opposes western imperialism is automatically a win for communist. Nothing is as black and white as theory supposes it to be, and we have to be vigilant about empowering the kleptocracy that are so common among political bodies run by the rich.

              breaking up the EU further and moving towards a direction that communism is permitted

              Right, but what makes you think they are actually going to leave the EU? He’s just emulating countries like Hungary, turkey, and India, who are utilizing geopolitical schisms to consolidate authoritarian regimes while staying plugged into the western capital apparatus.

              • ghost_of_faso2
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                24 days ago

                Right, but what makes you think they are actually going to leave the EU? He’s just emulating countries like Hungary, turkey, and India, who are utilizing geopolitical schisms to consolidate authoritarian regimes while staying plugged into the western capital apparatus.

                Im not sure, if they do would you eat your hat and support it?

                Do the communists in Hungary support removal from the EU also?

                I don’t buy into the false dichotomy that anything that seemingly opposes western imperialism is automatically a win for communist.

                Breaking up a bloc that was setup to counter communist infulence, is in fact good.

                • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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                  Im not sure, if they do would you eat your hat and support it?

                  If ivanishvili has actually changed his stripes and this wasn’t a conservative ploy to establish an authoritarian kleptocracy, I would gladly eat my hat and yours. But that would be as likely as bill gates donating all his money to Linux developers to create open source programming.

                  Do the communists in Hungary support removal from the EU also?

                  Hard to tell since Orban has basically done all he can to remove opposition parties. I don’t have a problem with nations decoupling from NATO or the EU, what I have a problem with is empowering social and fiscally conservative political parties who claim to want to decouple as a way to consolidate an authoritarian kleptocracy.

                  Breaking up a bloc that was setup to counter communist infulence, is in fact good.

                  Right, but who has actually broken away from the bloc? Kinda seems like they’re just utilizing that as a scapegoat to consolidate power without ever actually breaking up the bloc.

              • cfgaussianOP
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                24 days ago

                The communist/socialist parties in Georgia are part of the opposition groups

                So “communists” are aligned with western backed and funded opposition groups? That’s kind of sus don’t you think? I mean come on, it’s gotta raise some red flags for you about what kind of “socialist parties” these are that associate with liberal NGOs and participate in color revolution attempts.

                He’s just emulating countries like Hungary, turkey, and India, who are utilizing geopolitical schisms to consolidate authoritarian regimes

                Again with this word “authoritarian”. Funny how it’s always used against governments the West doesn’t like. It’s a very unserious word used by unserious people.

                Now, the undoubtedly reactionary nature of these governments aside, isn’t it objectively a good thing that they are behaving that way? That they are undermining the western hegemonistic order for their own selfish interests? Hungary for instance has been a real thorn in the side of the pro-Ukraine warmongers in the EU and NATO. As much as i hate Orban, it’s been frankly pretty entertaining to watch. Don’t you want dissent and disunity in the imperialist camp? I certainly do.

                • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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                  23 days ago

                  So “communists” are aligned with western backed and funded opposition groups? That’s kind of sus don’t you think? I mean come on, it’s gotta raise some red flags for you about what kind of “socialist parties” these are that associate with liberal NGOs and participate in color revolution attempts.

                  Maybe learn about the politics of the state before you make your judgments? The communist party is a small part of the coalition of parties attempting to block the Georgian dream party. I highly doubt they are receiving any help from any foreign NGO, they align themselves with those who do because they understand the threat that ivanishvili poses.

                  NGOs and participate in color revolution attempts.

                  Lol, you do know that the Georgian dream party is made up by the leadership of the rose revolution, right?

                  Again with this word “authoritarian”. Funny how it’s always used against governments the West doesn’t like. It’s a very unserious word used by unserious people.

                  Be mad at the dictionary I guess? I don’t control how governments arrange their hierarchical structures. Also, the US is friends with plenty of authoritarian countries.

                  Now, the undoubtedly reactionary nature of these governments aside, isn’t it objectively a good thing that they are behaving that way?

                  Not for the Georgian people…

                  That they are undermining the western hegemonistic order for their own selfish interests?

                  I think that’s a highly reductive interpretation that relies on oversimplified concepts of global politics, and political language.

                  Hungary for instance has been a real thorn in the side of the pro-Ukraine warmongers in the EU and NATO.

                  Have they really stopped anything, has this benefited Russia or the people of Hungary in any meaningful way? Also, I’d hardly call countries defending against an invasion the “warmongers” of the situation.

                  Don’t you want dissent and disunity in the imperialist camp? I certainly do.

                  Which imperialist camp?

              • cfgaussianOP
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                24 days ago

                Right, but what makes you think they are actually going to leave the EU?

                Are we still talking about Georgia or are you referring to a different country now? Is this a hypothetical scenario in an alternate reality?

                Because in this reality Georgia isn’t in the EU, never has been, and, inshallah, never will be.

          • 小莱卡
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            24 days ago

            Putin was also america’s guy, see how that turned out.

            • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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              Yeah… How did that turn out?

              I don’t particularly believe that Russia is anything but the first western state to evolve from capitalism to an authoritarian kleptocracy. They aren’t trying to end western hegemony, they’re just trying to change where they’re at on the ladder.

              How does it materially help workers if Russia does fight off NATO? It’s just exchanging one capitalist hierarchy for an even more authoritarian capitalist hierarchy. Their resources and labour are still being extracted from their country into the hands of billionaires.

                • 小莱卡
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                  24 days ago

                  capitalism in the west is fair and free but in Russia is ruthless and authoritarian.

                • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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                  Correct. The natural progression of late stage capitalism is a move further towards authoritarian capitalist kleptocracy.

                  How do we tell if a nation is antithetical towards western imperialism, or if we’re just witnessing the beast eating its own tail?

                  I would argue that we should look at the material motivations, and how capital is distributed within the nation. But I guess the enemy of my enemy is more catchy…

              • 小莱卡
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                How does it materially help workers if Russia does fight off NATO? It’s just exchanging one capitalist hierarchy for an even more authoritarian capitalist hierarchy. Their resources and labour are still being extracted from their country into the hands of billionaires.

                The enemy of our enemy is our friend, it is as simple as that. When the west focuses it’s resources on fighting Russia, it gives the rest of the world breathing room, thus we have seen progressive movements grow in many places that would’ve been immediately crushed under other circumstances.

                • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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                  The enemy of our enemy is our friend, it is as simple as that.

                  I mean that’s a nice saying, but I’d hardly say it’s been proven over the course of History. It didn’t work out very well for the native Americans.

                  When the west focuses it’s resources on fighting Russia, it gives the rest of the world breathing room

                  Or it just empowers the capital holders of the military industrial complex and makes America even more aggressive. I hardly think America would be a more agreeable nation under a wartime economy.

                  we have seen progressive movements grow in many places that would’ve been immediately crushed under other circumstances.

                  Examples? Because in the last 2 decades we’ve seen a huge upswing of conservative authoritarian governments being established across the globe.

              • MarxMadness
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                I don’t particularly believe that Russia is anything but the first western state to evolve from capitalism to an authoritarian kleptocracy.

                The U.S.?

          • cfgaussianOP
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            who do you think was the person most responsible for Georgia joining the EU?

            Georgia isn’t in the EU. I think you’re a bit confused mate.

      • cfgaussianOP
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        25 days ago

        This article omits that sort of discussion because it is not relevant. This article is about Georgia mending its relations with Russia, which is objectively a good thing for both countries and a defeat for the US empire.

        • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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          Georgia mending its relations with Russia

          And who is controlling the political party who is “mending it’s relations with Russia”? The same man who funded the rose revolution, the same man who happened to buy up the industry of Georgia afterwards?

          This isn’t about geopolitics, it’s about a billionaire trying to set up a dictatorship.

          • cfgaussianOP
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            This isn’t about geopolitics

            This is about geopolitics, that’s exactly the point of the article. You seem very fixated on this one individual but there are larger forces at play and there is a bigger geopolitical context that this fits into.

            If bourgeois interests that once supported Georgia’s submission to US diktat and aggressive anti-Russian policies are now turning in a different direction and in doing so are daring to draw the ire of the US empire that is a sign of which way the geopolitical winds are blowing.

            It means that something has fundamentally changed in the global balance of power and various actors around the world are reorienting according to what they perceive as being in their best interest.

            • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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              You seem very fixated on this one individual but there are larger forces at play and there is a bigger geopolitical context that this fits into.

              There is literally no player larger than ivanishvili in the region… He has controlled Georgian politics for the last 30 years. Which is why it is so academically dishonest to leave him out of the article, especially when the author was blaming his cronies for Georgia’s contemporary issues.

              bourgeois interests that once supported Georgia’s submission to US diktat and aggressive anti-Russian policies are now turning in a different direction and in doing so are daring to draw the ire of the US empire that is a sign of which way the geopolitical winds are blowing.

              Right, but we’ve already gone through this before with ivanishvili. He has a long established history of supporting whatever side further empowers his grip over Georgian politics and economics. He funded the rose revolution, then threw the leaders of the rose revolution under the bus, and then established his own neolib political party. Jumping between supporting Russia and the west as it suits his interest.

              He is never going to detach himself from western interest, this recent shift is just a bartering chip. He is hoping that if he can scare the west into thinking he is aligning with Russia that they will allow him to do whatever he wants in Georgia.

              • cfgaussianOP
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                He has a long established history of supporting whatever side further empowers his grip over Georgian politics and economics.

                And currently the West doesn’t seem to be offering that support. They seem to be doing the opposite by organizing protests aimed at toppling the government.

      • SadArtemis
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        Hell, never mind “Georgian Dream,” I’d even (very critically) support a “Georgian National Socialist” party in the sole and specific action of breaking away from the western imperial bloc (which is the entire cause of Georgia’s political issues to begin with- not that a Nazi party would likely break with their western sweethearts to begin with, to join all the non-white, non-western nations in anti-imperialist struggle at that).

        It seems you can’t understand- as your other comments clearly suggest- that we’re dealing with a global world system here, and that imperialism, as the highest stage of capitalism and its most abhorrent, destructive, and explicitly genocidal one is what we’re dealing with. That you fall for the “AuThORitARian” smear in your comments below (without recognizing that the most authoritarian system imaginable, is that of the imperialist bloc against the global democracy which is emerging, however problematic its various actors may be), as well as your clear lack of genuine understanding for the actual realities and constraints of the western military-industrial complex (if you can’t realize the US has been in a neoliberal equivalent of a “wartime economy” for decades, for instance- and if you can’t recognize that the MIC has been running the show for a long while now, and manufactured the current Ukraine crisis, and would simply manufacture some other crisis if that hadn’t been possible) is very telling.

        • 小莱卡
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          Hell, never mind “Georgian Dream,” I’d even (very critically) support a “Georgian National Socialist” party in the sole and specific action of breaking away from the western imperial bloc.

          you said what i didn’t have the guts to say.
          zoidberg salute 2

  • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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    25 days ago

    actually shocked they still hadn’t normalized relations since 2008, my god Russia is on half their border. apparently these bad relations have adversely effected their trade relations as well.

    this will surely be a beneficial step forward

  • Kirbywithwhip1987
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    Bruh Georgian Dream party is conservative, Georgia is a puppet for decades like Ukraine and would be in North Atlantic Terrorist Organization if not for intervention in 2008 which also saved 2 of it’s ethnic minorities which were oppressed same like Donbas was. Russia should just take Abkhazia and South Ossetia already and be done with it.

    • cfgaussianOP
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      This article does not endorse Georgia’s current ruling party, and neither do we. It is simply pointing out that relations between Georgia and Russia are stabilizing, and that this is a good thing for both countries while at the same time being a blow to the plans of the US empire to drive a wedge between them and turn Georgia into another Ukraine.

      Georgia has been a US puppet for decades but it appears that enough people in Georgia have understood that that was not to their advantage and are now seeking to regain their autonomy and adopt a more neutral alignment.

      As for the breakaway regions, so long as there is no pressing need for Russia to annex Abkhazia or South Ossetia the status quo is best left as is.

      • Kirbywithwhip1987
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        Well South Ossetia was already supposed to be annexed just last year and they just postponed the referendum and Medvedev said that it will happen. Meanwhile I don’t know about that since Georgia was always unstable like Moldova and Azerbaijan, being puppet for too long and doing literally the same thing as Ukraine before it was stopped. And there is not a semblance of socialism like there’s in Belarus, just conservative anti-communist capitalist puppet, not as bad as Baltics or Ukraine post 2014, but pretty bad.

    • 小莱卡
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      As long as it catches mice (aka anti-imperialist)

    • deathtoreddit
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      25 days ago

      Ye gotta a friend from Georgia, cuz seems like ye speak from someone’s personal experience…

  • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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    25 days ago

    I like how this article has completely omitted the role of Bidzina Ivanishvili in modern Georgian politics, but took their time to mention George Soros…

    I guess the left are supposed to be fans of Bidzina Ivanishvili now? Let’s all forget that he was one of the main architects Yeltsin used within the Semibankirschina to dismantle the Soviet Union.

    Apparently it’s great news that the left is now aligned with a billionaire who made his money parting out a communist government.

    Makes sooo much sense…

    • pinguinu [any]
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      What part of this article or the post shows support for Georgian Dream specifically? Do you think we support Putin’s party or Iran’s current government in the same way? Not trying to come off as smug

      I mean, we do support them, but critically, not blindly like the word “fans” or “aligned” may suggest. I don’t get what’s the difference in this situation wrt Georgia. If you think this isn’t worth critical support you should just say that instead and explain materially why.

    • 小莱卡
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      critical support for Georgia in their struggle against western imperialism.

    • cfgaussianOP
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      this article has completely omitted the role of Bidzina Ivanishvili

      I guess the left are supposed to be fans of Bidzina Ivanishvili now

      This is faulty logic. Omission of something is not endorsement.

      Apparently it’s great news that the left is now aligned with a billionaire

      First of all the author of this article does not represent “the left”. His views are his own.

      Secondly, nothing in the article suggests alignment with this person you mentioned, because as has already been established, said person is not even mentioned in the piece.

      You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. You are reading things into this article that it simply does not say.

    • -6-6-6-
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      Welcome to the club, buddy. Yes, we CRITICALLY support anyone who throws shit at the U.S Empire. Obviously, Yeltsin’s dog isn’t someone we blindly support. Someone already told you that this is a sign of larger geopolitical reorientation; even if only briefly for a “bartering chip” that shows how the overall world reacts under U.S “international law” and how those reactions are changing compared to even five-six years ago.

      That’s it. You should know that the author likely has his own views. That this was likely shared here because we support any chip in the U.S empire and global hegemony, even if only momentarily. “The Left” is a completely disingenuous statement which tells me you likely aren’t a regular here and think we give a shit about people politics. We aren’t Ivanishvili fans. No one here is defending them and multiple people have tried to point out their actual positions to which you just reiterate that we’re supporting X and must believe X.

      Are you trying to be a wrecker or something?

      • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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        Someone already told you that this is a sign of larger geopolitical reorientation; even if only briefly for a “bartering chip” that shows how the overall world reacts under U.S “international law” and how those reactions are changing compared to even five-six years ago.

        I’ve been told that, but I haven’t seen any kind of evidence supporting the theory.

        So far the only governments outside of China that just so happen to be “reorienting” their geopolitical alignments are led by authoritarian conservative governments.

        That this was likely shared here because we support any chip in the U.S empire and global hegemony

        And how do you determine what’s a chip against the global hegemony, and not just a legal fiction used to further entrench conservative governments?

        The Left" is a completely disingenuous statement which tells me you likely aren’t a regular here and think we give a shit about people politics.

        And yet you are ignoring the innate economic motivators leading to the shift in geopolitics to begin with?

        No one here is defending them and multiple people have tried to point out their actual positions to which you just reiterate that we’re supporting X and must believe X.

        You don’t know what you are supporting because you aren’t interested in the regional political history. I get what you want to support, but you’re blind to the motivations of the person who is pulling the strings.

        Are you trying to be a wrecker or something?

        No, just worried for friends in Tbilisi. Ivanishvili has been trying to put the last nail in the coffin for communist and socialist in Georgia for a long time, and allowing him to shut out opposition parties is probably going to be dangerous for them.

        • cfgaussianOP
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          the only governments outside of China that just so happen to be “reorienting” their geopolitical alignments are led by authoritarian conservative governments

          You keep using this word “authoritarian”. How are these countries any different from the average western capitalist country? What exactly is so much more “authoritarian” about them?

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          24 days ago

          I’ve been told that, but I haven’t seen any kind of evidence supporting the theory.

          The example you’re discussing is the evidence. Reorientation does not mean fully reoriented. It means things are changing. An example that shows a changing relationship is evidence that relationships are changing. This remains true even if you don’t like the type of change or if things go back to the way they were.

          At the moment we are still witnessing quantitative changes. Enough of those and we will see qualitative changes. The fact of quantitative change does not discount the fact of change i.e. reorientation.