• 小莱卡
    link
    4828 days ago

    I can finally apply for a loan to buy a house!

  • @Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    21
    edit-2
    27 days ago

    The little detail the nazis always never tell you is that social credit is for businesses, not individuals. Also that how they frame “donations to the communist party” as a way to increase your score as being an evil trick when really just their way of saying “we like when you pay your taxes”

    Even if social credit was as bad as it’s misrepresented as, it still wouldn’t be anywhere near as fundamentally racist and exploitative as the capitalist credit system is, where your score is based purely on how much a few oligarchs feel they can get away with fucking you over.

  • CronyAkatsuki
    link
    fedilink
    1427 days ago

    How does that credit score work at all?

    Not an american and we don’t have a credit points system like them so interested.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
      link
      18
      edit-2
      27 days ago

      Basically there’s some opaque formula companies use to figure out your score based on how often you use your credit cars/take out loans, how regularly you repay them, etc. This in turn affects your ability to get loans. Like if you want to buy a house or a car, they’ll check your credit score, and if it’s not high enough then they won’t float you, etc.

    • @RedClouds
      link
      1827 days ago

      Yogthos answer is great, To add more context, and be a bit more negative… the credit score effectively incentivises spending a lot of money and taking out a lot of loans, and by taking out a lot of money and by paying them off, you get better credit, which means only the people who can take on big loans and pay them off get better credit. Basically only rich people have good credit, which means basically only rich people can buy houses and cars and things like that. It perpetuates a cycle for the rich getting richer and the poor staying poor.

      Remember, in America, houses are an investment. You can use them to collect rent and, in general, line should go up, so your investment will gain in value over time on average.

      • @ComradeSalad
        link
        227 days ago

        This isn’t entirely true. A large part of a credit score is the age of revolving credit accounts. So you can get a very high score but just having a credit card with a $200 a month limit and paying it off each month on time. By year 2 your score should be very strong.

        Or take out a higher limit card and just pay all your bills with it.

        You don’t need massive loans or multiple accounts.

        • @RedClouds
          link
          9
          edit-2
          25 days ago

          Ehhhhh, kinda.

          Some credit card companies make their information more public.

          Almost all across the board take on-time payment history as their largest contributing factor of the credit score, 35% according to my report. This means that any missed payments on anything will dramatically reduce your credit score. These hits on your score last, I believe, five years.

          Next, at 30%, is only utilizing a small amount of your total credit. Now in such a case, you can get a very low amount of credit and use very little of it. This is fine. But if you’re going to use your credit card for actual things, which takes advantage of getting points and bonuses and yada yada, then you need a lot of credit. As someone with a $15,000 limit on one credit card, I am able to keep my credit usage by percentage very low.

          Next, add only 15% of your credit score, which is still big, but not as big as the others, is credit age. 0-2 years is only the starting place. Your credit age is average between three and seven years and it only becomes good when it’s over seven years. You can only achieve an excellent in this category with 25 or more years of continuous credit usage. This is by far the absolute hardest part of your credit score to increase. The best way to have a good credit score at a young age like in your 20s is if your parents opened one with you and put you on their good credit score when you were in your teens. This can be very dangerous for people who don’t have enough money to pay off their card every month and can spiral you into debt really fast.

          Having $50,000 or more in credit limit is optimal for the highest credit scores. Considering they do income checks when you apply for a credit card, you absolutely will not have a high credit limit on any one card unless you make a lot of money.

          Next and the smallest amount of effect on your credit score is new accounts and recent inquieries. This means you can’t go get a bunch of new credit cards all at once, or else your credit score will tank. And if you buy two cars and a house in one year, you should wait a good three years before applying for anything else, less you hit your credit score.

          Sorry for the brain dump. I had experience with this as a liberal and learned a lot about it. Just the high credit limit, old credit age, and low utilization requirements, means that basically anybody who is poor is going to have a hard time getting high credit.

          Mistakes at least do go off your credit history. I actually had defaulted on a loan when I was younger and really fucked things up and my credit score was garbage. But now it is routinely over 800 when I check it, and it’s been over 850 when companies have checked it. I got my morgage at 2.4%… Good credit is cheap to maintain once you have some money… But not impossible if you have less. Just really hard.

    • @redsteel
      link
      English
      1227 days ago

      To expand on what Yogthos and RedClouds already said, the U.S. “consumer credit” system is also, effectively, mandatory participation from birth and you don’t ever get a choice in it later on. There are multiple private agencies who track and maintain records of U.S. citizens’ credit history. A typical person here will do business or apply for jobs at many companies over their lifetime which will check these credit histories and/or submit that person’s payment records to the agencies as part of the business (like mobile phone service contracts, credit cards and car loans, corporate landleeches and your monthly rent history, etc. etc.).

      I think the way it works is, the first time you do business with a place that reports to credit agencies when you turn 18 or whatever, your identifying info is sent over and your personal credit history begins. It’s like having an account created on your behalf at a shady, unaccountable business from which your data can’t and won’t ever be purged (bonus: your personal info has a good chance of getting stolen from said agencies and sold on TOR forums every few years or so).

      If a credit check is part of the employment process at some job, their HR department is using it to determine how responsible and trustworthy an applicant is expected to be. Banks and finance jobs always do this as well as other non-finance but high level jobs. Someone with large amounts of current debt or history of missing payments on rent won’t get hired at such jobs because they’re considered bad with money and desperate or irresponsible, a liability for theft and embezzlement as the employer would see it. Same principle when applying for places to live, low credit score or red marks in payment history = no housing for you.

      The system has a bunch of stupid guidelines for maintaining a high ‘credit score’ that are taught as sage life advice in a lot of high school, home economics classes here, probably because this shit is so deeply ingrained in every aspect of life that it’s inescapable. That ‘credit score’ is a three-digit number ranging from about 500 to 850, it’s often listed with some minimum required score on housing applications and similar, it is used as a quick judgment on your history of borrowing from and repaying capitalist entities, higher number being better. It’s calculated by a an algorithm and nobody knows what the algorithm is because it’s an industry secret. The score is updated regularly and we can get a free copy once per year of everything on our personal credit reports from each of the three “main” credit agencies, if we request one.

      Unless you’re so wealthy you can buy everything with cash, having no credit history at all or a bad credit history can significantly impact your life comfort and ability to find housing, so we are forced to play this fucked up game.

  • @AmerikaLosesWW3
    link
    1126 days ago

    I remember seeing an infographic and one of the worst offenses under China’s social credit system was cheating in a video game. CHEATING IN A VIDEO GAME. LMAO!

    • @DamarcusArt
      link
      526 days ago

      The CIA agent who came up with the idea clearly knew what would upset their audience the most.

    • @sevenapples
      link
      2427 days ago

      Yeah, one exists nationwide (credit score) and the other was some proposed municipality plan that didn’t go anywhere

      • Kairos
        link
        fedilink
        -226 days ago

        The existing social credit blacklists use these numbers, as do almost all activities in China. But these codes are not scores or rankings

        Instead, individuals or companies are blacklisted for specific, relatively serious offenses like fraud and excessive pollution that would generally be offenses anywhere. To be sure, China does regulate speech, association, and other civil rights in ways that many disagree with, and the use of the social credit system to further curtail such rights deserves monitoring.

        Same difference.

  • @jaschen@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    -4528 days ago

    At least Americans get to own their land. In China you don’t own the land. Just the building sitting on top. Also you start paying for the mortgage before the building is finished… IF it finishes.

    • @xkyfal18
      link
      3728 days ago

      Yes yes, all buildings in China are made of cardboard and entire cities collapse overnight! It’s true! I work with the CI- I mean a trusted source, like RFA!

      On a side note, I’m pretty sure not even RFA would say something as obviously false as this, but I guess their propaganda knows no bounds.

      • @DamarcusArt
        link
        2027 days ago

        Their favourite part of the job is probably knowing that they can make up some stupid shit, then libs will run with it, making up even stupider shit themselves, and then believing the things they just made up.

      • @jaschen@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        -26
        edit-2
        27 days ago

        Nobody said it was made of cardboard.

        As a Chinese person myself and have invested my own money in China, they can take away your investment without repercussions and pay you a tiny fraction of the value they take from you.

        Plus, the amount of bribes needed to get transactions made is just relentless. Everyone from the fucking guy inspecting the factory to the guy stamping my deed. Everyone needed to get their beaks wet.

        All my investments are in America and Taiwan. Never need to pay a single bribe.

          • @DamarcusArt
            link
            2927 days ago

            It’s funny watching them pull this shit in the one place it wouldn’t fly. I reckon a lot of these guys forget that only American libs are gullible enough to fall for their egg monopoly sob stories, the rest of us think of them as the spoilt failsons that they are, mad they didn’t get to coast through life on daddy’s factory money.

    • AdeptusPrimaris
      link
      fedilink
      34
      edit-2
      28 days ago

      Americans own their own land? I thought that a lot of them are in spiralling home loan debts( among other debts) for most of their lives, and the majority of the rest are renting, and can’t even dream of even owning property. Not the rich, of course.

      That’s not even taking into account the massive homeless population that the US criminalises and leaves to fend for themselves and just die.

      So…how is that better than being provided the security of housing that China is doing?

      • @RedClouds
        link
        27
        edit-2
        25 days ago

        If americans own their land, what are taxes for?

        Ahhh americans, can’t get through their thick skulls.

        • @jaschen@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          -2027 days ago

          Taxes are for the local community that pays for fire, police and schools. It also helps subsidize utilities for the community.

          Now if I invested money in a plot of land that has no such things. Then my taxes are minimal, only paying for the federal government and maybe some small local government such as wildlife conservation.

          My thick skull has invested into China in the past and the government took back the land they leased to me. Not even refunded me close to what I paid for it. Don’t let me get started with how much money I had to bribe these fuckers to get the transactions done.

          • @RedClouds
            link
            1927 days ago

            I am a totally real person who actually has bought land in China and knows that the government is extremely authoritarian.

            And it’s against the rules to lie in the internet and you can trust everyone for what they say… Certainly there isn’t any evidence of people lying on the internet…

            Thick skulls indeed…

            Go spread your fake conspiracy theory somewhere else, you fucking fascist. People here aren’t gonna buy your bullshit lies.

            You don’t own the land underneath your feet in America, But in China, at least the land is owned collectively.

            Oh, that’s right. In actuality, the government doesn’t own the land in China. The people do. The government just manages it for the people. So, in essence, every single person in China actually owns a part of the land they stand on. How interesting. Socialism is a very interesting system, isn’t it? And considering 94% of people own a home in China, I think their reputation for land ownership is significantly outpacing the United States reputation for land ownership.

            But as a totally real person who actually bought land in China, you already know these facts, don’t you?

      • @jaschen@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        -2427 days ago

        Yes, I own the land I buy. The building that sits on it.

        I was fortunate enough to have government support for my initial home purchase and since then my investment portfolio has increased ever since. Can’t say for others, but I also invested money early on in life in opposed to spending on stupid shit.

        The two countries have different government dynamics. One is freedom to prosper and also freedom to fail. While the other is no freedom but there is the golden contract.

        As for the “housing security” that you’re talking about. Are you talking about the housing collapse that is currently happening or the shoddy government homes defunded by bribes that the locals are calling tofu homes?

    • @cayde6ml
      link
      3027 days ago

      This is a misconception bordering on a fucking lie. For all intents and purposes, in China you do own the land you purchase. The 70 year lease is mostly a formality. The government owns all the land legally speaking, much the same as literally any other country on Earth. Regardless of what a piece of paper says, the land is yours. The 70 year lease is just so the government can keep tabs on all the land in the country for different purposes, such as organization, urban planning, taxation, regulating land use and waste, and the state will compensate you for more than your home is worth, if the land is required for development, ala imminent domain.

      Ironic that despite officially being a lease, in China you own your land more than you do in the U.S., which is a blanket nightmarish patchwork of banks and home owners associations.

      • @jaschen@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        -29
        edit-2
        27 days ago

        Pssshhh. Keep drinking the Kool aid.

        My family had a factory in Chengdu with a 50 year lease + a 50 year option.

        A few years in they decided they wanted to expand the road and cut my family’s factory in half. The warehouse was literally butt up against the highway. Then a few years after they completed the road they decided to expand it again and took the entire land it was sitting on.

        They gave us a tiny fraction on justthe land we “owned”. Not even accounting for the upgrades and improvements made to the facilities. We also lost all the bribe money we had to pay to buy this factory in the first place.

        They completely ruined my family and our investment. It’s been 20 years and we still haven’t fully recovered.

        • @sevenapples
          link
          3327 days ago

          We also lost all the bribe money we had to pay to buy this factory in the first place.

          How can you type this with a straight face holy shit

        • @Giyuu
          link
          English
          2927 days ago

          Boohoo China has a 90% home ownership rate. Their system is literally working properly because you failed at becoming a landlord and have to get a real job.

        • Xavienth
          link
          2927 days ago

          Nobody in America has ever had their home taken by the government to build a highway /s

          • @sinovictorchan
            link
            8
            edit-2
            27 days ago

            The continued concentration camps, forced eviction from your property without compensation, planned starvation, and planned chemical attacks against Native Americans to create “natural” park wo[u]ld like a word with you.

        • @amemorablename
          link
          2727 days ago

          So let me get this straight, your family bribed your way into owning a factory and you want sympathy because you had to give it up? Meanwhile, in the US, the supreme court is going to be ruling on whether states can fine people for sleeping outdoors, while homelessness gets worse. It might be the case that had your family done the same in the US, you’d still have that factory and be wealthy too. That’s not a good thing. The dictatorship of capital in the US comes at the cost of everyone else.

          In the US, cities have been known to bulldoze homeless encampments: https://www.vice.com/en/article/5db7qb/dc-bulldozed-a-homeless-persons-tent-while-they-were-still-inside

          And you’re saying “China bad, US good” because you lost control of a factory.

        • @cayde6ml
          link
          2727 days ago

          Sounds like you got what you deserved.