This meme is from 2004. History repeats itself.

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      94
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      It’s important to note that the real disparity may be even far worse.

      OCHA-OPT (the committee gathering this data) is strict about verifying validity of Palestinian casualties, requiring two independent, verified and non-affiliated sources. Casualties in Israel, however, they trust the media at face value. They also exclude a lot of Palestinian casualties even when verified in certain situations. Example, and I quote them:

      People who were killed or injured in conflict-related incidents that took place in Israel and did not involve residents of the oPt are also excluded.

      oPt (occupied Palestinian territories) are the areas that Israel does not directly oversee. So most of Israel is not oPt by their criteria.

      Israel is notorious for restricting journalists reporting on Israeli crimes, and has murdered journalists countless of times, like last year the Christian Palestinian Shireen Abu Akleh reporting on the forced expulsion of Palestinians from Sheikh Jarrah (so not even in a war zone area). This causes many casualties to go unverified and thus undocumented.

      And Israel has been caught lying before about its own casualties, like the 40 beheaded babies.

      Take that as you will.

        • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          They’ve got a long road ahead of them to kill that many people but i admit the thought occurred to me as well. There does seem to be a ratio being followed here.

          • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Given Israel’s rhetoric, they are literally letting us know the number will climb much higher. But the West is too busy condemning Hamas, and will sponsor yet another genocide in the modern era.

    • ebenixo@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      So seriously, fuck the closet racist xenophobes masquerading as defenders of freedom and democracy here. Tools of the state.

      • Jaccident@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Didn’t look like you’re replying to anyone supporting Hamas.

        Also, there is an alternative #2 in your scenario. “Know your enemy would lose too much western support too readily if they were to fine on all the civilian targets they would like to”.

      • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Imagine how things may go if Israel attempted to use Jews as human shields against Hamas.

        You mean like putting many settlements and civilians right on the border of Gaza, a concentration camp and active war Zone? Or allowing a rave dance to occur at the gates of a concentration camp and active war zone, and next to a military base that would be targeted by Hamas? And sprinkle in some IDF tanks while you’re at it.

        Wait, we don’t have to imagine it.

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        The only one I can think of is the idea that the Jews made up the Holocaust to guilt the West into giving up Israel… Which is indeed antisemetic, and asburd

    • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Fascists get away with conflating Judaism and Zionism because they don’t teach that Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism, and actually goes against a lot of their values. It’s actually been around for quite awhile; you know the crusades, when they went around killing a bunch of civilians to set up settlements? Those were Christian Zionists.

      That’s why it’s anti-semitic to conflate the two. One is a religion and the other is a fascist genocidal colonialist movement. So next time you see some german lady shouting down a holocaust survivor for calling out Israeli apartheid (yes, this literally happened, and it was the Jewish guy who got punished) you’ll see it for what it is. It’s not complicated, it’s a clear cut case of modern day nazism.

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Amen, who was it who said that the way to find out what group is getting away with too much bullshit is to look at what group you’re not allowed to criticize in any Circle?

    • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      108
      arrow-down
      36
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      No. Hundreds of thousands will die in response to hundreds dying. The comic is still fully accurate even if “a single missile” is still condemnable.

        • jmankman@lemmy.myserv.one
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          39
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Shall we begin an era of endless terror by proving it works?

          Just look at the US military, we already have

        • explodicle@local106.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          16
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          I felt just like this after 9/11. I don’t know enough about your country to tell you what the right thing to do is. But I wish that the USA could go back in time and just gradually assassinate Al Queda with the CIA instead or something. Those occupations were doomed from the start.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            31
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            1 year ago

            The CIA is literally the reason the Al Queda exists. has consistently been the biggest force funding and training terrorists groups around the world. Al Queda is just the modern iteration on the Mujahideen whom US was propping up in the 80s.

            • KNova@links.dartboard.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Yup. Listen to the latest season of Blowback podcast. CIA sheltered/evacuated a bunch of Al Quaeda leaders right before the invasion of Afghanistan began.

          • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            The US government at the time did not want to do any such thing. Project For A New American Century, the think tank most of the Bush administration officials came from, openly wrote about how they were hoping for a “new Pearl Harbor” they could use to take the US into war with Iraq. Later, President Bush got a memo about how Al Qaeda was going to attack the US mainland and he did nothing. Then 9/11 happened and the government lied the country into a war with Iraq. What part of this makes you think they were going to do anything about Al Qaeda (other than giving them more funds maybe)?

        • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          27
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          1 year ago

          Where did I mock the victims? Do not put words in my mouth. Can you not make a half-sound argument without lying?

            • GitProphet@lemmy.sdfeu.org
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              28
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              From what I can see, @matcha_addict@lemy.lol is not mocking the victims of this tragedy, but rather criticising the media for writing about the israeli deaths caused by the hamas attack, yet hardly making a sound about the palestine deaths caused by israel.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          19
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          It IS NOT a disproportionate representation. THAT’S THE POINT.

          I am very sorry you fail to realize what death Israel will doll out in response, but this comic is completely accurate in the proportions displayed.

          You LITERALLY have fighter jets and bombers striking back against … paragliders with guns…

          Again, NO ONE except fucking losers are saying Hamas did anything good. That doesn’t make murdering dozens of thousands of Palestinians OK.

      • datelmd5sum@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        16
        ·
        1 year ago

        I don’t think disproportionate response doctrine from countries like the US and Israel should come as a surprise after more than half a century of conflict. Why murder 100 innocent people of your opponent when you know they will murder 1000 innocents of your people in response?

        • ComradeChairmanKGB
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          It may not be a surprise but it’s still disgusting and worth calling out.

          Take 9/11 for an example, in response to a few thousand dying, America invaded Iraq (who was not even responsible) and killed several orders of magnitude more people. As well as looting their wealth, subordinating their government and economy to American interests, and effectively occupying them for two decades. Anytime an American says “never forget” they should be reminded how thoroughly soaked in blood they are.

          Likewise, when zionists shed crocodile tears for a few hundred dead festival goers who were depraved enough to go raving only a few short kilometers from the world’s largest concentration camp. They must be reminded of what they have done to Palestine. Invasion. Displacement. Occupation. Ethnic cleansing. Apartheid. Imprisonment. Genocide.

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      41
      arrow-down
      18
      ·
      1 year ago

      “history repeats itself” as in the people who only condemn needless killing when Hamas does it, but ignore the Palestinian cause the rest of the time.

      • DarkGamer@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        48
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s almost like motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances matter and not just body count. For example, intentionally targeting civilians to maximize civilian deaths is not the same as accidentally killing civilians with collateral damage while trying to minimize civilian deaths.

        • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          44
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Guess which side this is, then:

          Scores of people, mainly women and children, have been killed in multiple air strikes on the main road connecting north and south Gaza, as people carried out an Israeli order to flee their homes.

          According to the Ministry of Health, at least 70 people have been killed in three separate air strikes on the road, with the latest killing at least 40.

          The Israeli army said in a statement on Friday that civilians must leave Gaza City in the north, and that they would not be allowed to return “until we say so” and until “a statement is issued allowing this”.

          However, locals have reported a number of attacks on the Salah al-Din Road since then. Survivors, speaking to local media, implored others not to make the journey for fear of being targeted by the Israelis.

          “Do not leave,” a distraught survivor of the attacks told local media.

          “They bombed the convoy. They bombed it on Salah al-Din Road. They bombed the ambulances.”

          Another survivor said the attacks were a “direct targeting of women and children”.

          “I was in the truck. There were about 200 people. 90 percent were women and children. We took the main road that the entire world knew we were taking. My entire family were with me. Out of nowhere, they dropped a bomb. Everything was black and I lost conscience for 10 mins,” they told local media.

          “When I woke up I saw a mother lying with her baby, whose brain was right next to him. I heard the ambulances then they bombed again. I took cover and after a few minutes tried to check the damage, then they bombed again.”

        • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          36
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          When Israeli soldiers are bragging about raping and torturing people, it’s very clear what their intentions are

                • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  20
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  The officer, whose name remains barred from publication, served in the Defense Ministry’s Civil Administration, which is tasked with overseeing the day-to-day management of the West Bank. The officer, a major, was responsible for issuing permits for Palestinians to enter and work in Israel, a position of power that he repeatedly exploited in order to receive sexual favors from Palestinians.

                  Wow, you sure dismissed that as an isolated incident real quick!

                  I’m sure it never happened again now that they caught the only guy who got caught for doing it!

                • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  15
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Hamas is not a state or government. It is a militia to fight occupation. It is nowhere near as organized as Israel with its governing body. You cannot equate the two.

                  Israel does not oppose this. There are mountains of evidence of Israelis torturing and raping children, pregnant women and elderly Palestinians. There is mountains of evidence of Palestinians being burned alive, or forced to destroy their own homes with their bare hands. The magnitude of cruelty is unmatched.

                  Do you want more evidence? I am happy to provide. But it seems you reject it even when presented evidence.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  12
                  arrow-down
                  12
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  That’s just one of countless examples from a two seconds of googling. It’s the height of intellectual dishonesty to try and frame it as an isolated incident.

            • XpeeN@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Did they just downvote you for asking a source? is this reddit all over again?

        • jmankman@lemmy.myserv.one
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          While they do certainly look different, the end result of a death by malice or by ignorance is the same.

    • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Rules of the internet: you can safely discard everything that comes before the “, but”

        • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          The soundness of your argument should not depend on your stance. It is a common tactic to state that you are “pro-X” but criticize X, because people are more likely to sympathize with your criticism that way. The commenter you replied to is simply reminding us of this.

  • FierroGamer@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    99
    arrow-down
    42
    ·
    1 year ago

    Dafuq is this meme? civilians are civilians, regardless of the country religion or whatever the duck they’re born in.

    • AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      102
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      If civilians are civilians…

      "Amongst Israelis, 69% of those killed were civilians and 31% members of the IDF. The number of Israeli civilians killed, from attacks by Palestinian armed groups or individuals, has declined steadily, peaking in 2002 at an average of 22 deaths per month, and dropping markedly to an average of one civilian per month in 2007. 6/

      In contrast to Israeli figures, however, Palestinian civilian fatalities have remained high. Palestinian civilians, killed by Israeli security forces, peaked with an average of 35 deaths per month in 2002, and again in 2004. In 2007 they dropped slightly to an average of ten civilian deaths per month."

      https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208380/

      Both sides kill civilians with abandon, and Israel is markedly better at it. Major media doesn’t seem to care very much about Palestinian civilians though.

        • AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          53
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Fair, but the point is that there is no side here playing by the no civilians rule, yet only Palestinians are called out for it.

          The headline of the newest chapter in this shitshow for some reason is “How could Hamas attack Civilians?! Civilians?!” When the reality is that hasn’t really been a red line to the Israeli government or Hamas. Never has been.

          Its evil all day, don’t get me wrong. The twisted thing is that somehow Israel is somehow perpetually marketed as being the good guys playing by the rules of engagement in spite of being no different with regards to killing non-enemy combatants.

          Why are israeli civilian concert goers a global tragedy, while Palestinian civilian casualties past and present just another thursday? Why doesn’t the world lose its shit at 10 Palestinian civilians killed a month? Are Palestinians somehow universally recognized as having less value as human beings than Israelis?

          • Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            31
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Are Palestinians somehow universally recognized as having of less value as human beings than Israelis?

            Yes, at least among Western media and its consumers

          • 小莱卡
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            17
            ·
            1 year ago

            “Animals, vermin, savages, beasts” are common terms used by Israel goverment officials, military and mainstream media when referring to Palestinians, they’re not even trying to use dogwhistles at this point.

          • randomredditor12345@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            14
            arrow-down
            31
            ·
            1 year ago

            Because the terrorists are specifically targeting civilians whereas Israel is targeting military targets that the terrorists put a bunch of human shields around

            • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              It is the exact opposite. Israel continuously brutalizes even Palestinian civilians in their own territories, without any military supporting them whatsoever.

        • 小莱卡
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          1 year ago

          How is cutting water, electricity and bombing houses and hospitals “protecting the civilians”? Think a little bit please.

        • Wogi@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          15
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          That’s a funny way to say “Israel has continued to fire at defenseless civilians”

    • Astroturfed@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      67
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      I completely agree with you. Which is why when you look at the grotesque number of civilians Israel kills every year it’s pretty easy to condem them.

    • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      Jesus Christ I had to scroll through like, 10 top level comments to find someone with a measure of reason. I’m actually stunned.

      • lud@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        This real time information spread during the Ukrainian invasion and this, is so crazy.

    • papertowels@lemmy.one
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Unfortunately, those that don’t fall under what you’re describing simply don’t comment because they know it’s a massive, nuanced issue, so all you’re seeing are the loudest, least nuanced voices

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      I hope more of you fake nuanced people go back to Reddit.

      “bro please bro it’s complicated bro you can’t oppose apartheid bro have you not considered it’s complicated bro? Please bro you have to maintain status quo”

  • HorriblePerson@feddit.nl
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    40
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    I agree with the comic. I do however disagree with the title. I think the Hamas’ attack shouldn’t to be called “resistance”, just as Israel’s response shouldn’t be called “self defense”.

    • suomisepp@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      This! Was searching the whole comment section and wanted to post it just now and luckily hit refresh.

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      I agree with you that it needs to be clarified further. While I think it is still “resistance” in the sense that it was done with the intention to resist occupation and all what Israel does, I do agree that civilians died that didn’t need to, and it did not lead to positive results.

      When you live your whole life in a concentration camp and get bombed almost daily, you may lose some rationality and start justifying more things in the name or resistance. Ultimately I blame Israel for putting them in this situation, and putting civilians so close to their border.

      In the end, my whole point is that Hamas attack must not justify a response from Israel. It should lead us to pull back instead.

    • IzzyScissor@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’m sorry, but are you the arbiter of all emotional responses?

      Also, are “imaginary blood beliefs” and “resisting massacre” the same to you? Because you act like they are.

      This feels more like an excuse to disengage than understand or criticize.

      • AreaSIX @lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Didn’t you read what he wrote? He, acting as our representative, has already made it clear that we, all third parties, don’t care and just want to watch the world burn. Get in line!

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      makes me care less

      What has your hesitant caring (if even true) achieved before? Is there anything lost that we should worry about?

      We actually much rather you take a step back and leave us. Please start by telling your governments to gtfo of Middle east and stop all intervention. We don’t want you.

  • callouscomic@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    19
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Is this cartoon originally about the US invading the middle east? Looks like the twin towers in there.

  • SigloPseudoMundo@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    69
    arrow-down
    54
    ·
    1 year ago

    Take a look at this guy’s other Palestine Israel Post and decide if you wanna upvote this terrorist enjoyer.

  • ebenixo@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    18
    arrow-down
    11
    ·
    1 year ago

    Lemmy is full of authoritarian xenophobes (read: white kids from wealthy backgrounds) who support the brutalization of the Palestinian people and open air prison they’re forced into. That’s why you never heard a peep from them about the murders of innocent Palestinians that have been nonstop since the establishment of the Apartheid state of Israel. You won’t find much support here among these right wing war mongers.

  • robocall@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    No more Mister Nice Guy

    No more Mister Clean

    No more Mister Nice Guy

    They say he’s sick, he’s obscene

  • Peter G@mastodon.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    @matcha_addict
    The issue here is similar to most of the land contest issues in the world: what historical period you use to determine land ownership. As an example: most of the current territory of Russia was once occupied by Mongolian tribes under the leadership of Chenghis Khan. So if that’s the frame of reference you use, Mongolia has legitimate rights to wage war to reclaim their land.

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      I have a solution for you: why shouldn’t we live with Israelis in peace? Why can’t we have a Democratic state for all? Israel loses this “historical land” battle, but even if they didn’t, does that justify massacre? Palestinians have always advocated a state for all, but Israel never agrees.

      • Peter G@mastodon.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        @matcha_addict I agree with you. Historically Jews and Arabs that occupied this land are the same people with different religious beliefs. They are all Semites. They should be able to live together.
        Globally speaking, the borders of counties are just arbitrarily drawn lines on the map. Lines, drawn by individual people who decided for the masses where they can and cannot have a home.
        I believe, we as humans, should abolish borders of any kind.

        • Peter G@mastodon.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          @matcha_addict But I’m afraid this idea has no traction. It’s only going to be possible if we as humanity realize that we are not alone in the universe and another species threatens us from outer space. I don’t know any other way that we can all unite as earthlings and realize the fallacy of carving up the world into spheres of influence for a few, mostly militaristic men.