Btw even Finnish historians agree that the number is pure bullshit, made up for propaganda purposes. Soviet archives analysis confirms it, if it was real he would have to singlehandedly caused half of the losses of Soviet units located there.
Don’t tell finnaboos that, you’ll cause a meltdown not seen since the formation of the Earth
I already did few times and the effect was as you describe. Funnily enough, it’s not even any tankie lore, even their beloved wiki mentions that.
Was it some online squabble? I can’t imagine anyone reacting much to it irl since most agree the stuff is exaggerated. It’s a sore point or anything.
Anticoms in Poland do mention Hayha a lot irl too if the talk goes anywhere near the topic.
Like people enthusiastic about Finland or Finns? Because I wouldn’t be surprised by the reaction from first group, whereas I’d be really surprised by the latter. I have some of the flag waving, Finnish lion wearing nationalistic friends and when we talked about it some time ago everyone agreed that the number is exaggerated and the discussion was more about by how much. I think some thought it was still really high and some were just unsure. Of course this is just my experience. Abroad those people might be more boastful hah
There’s tons of wehraboos in Poland and that usually include FInland too “Hayha killed 500 Russians singlehandedly” compiled with “Finland totally shows those commie cockroaches their place” etc. they love when someone kill Soviets and Russians so they always take the asspulled numbers like gospel.
Ah. Partly that might be because Winter War and Finland’s WW2 history is in that spot where people know a few (often exaggerated) tidbits that make them feel knowledgeable about it but not enough to really know stuff. In that context believing the 700 noscope 360’s seems more reasonable. Hearing someone outside of Finland talk about Finland’s history during WW2 is one of those cases where you’re sure to hear a mistake or two. Hell, you can see it here in the comments. But a lot of it is imo pretty understandable.
I think me and most Finns know it’s exaggerated. That’s usually brought up when talking about him. Most think he was impressive sniper but not that impressive.
Fifty years from now: “The Ghost of Kiev was the deadliest top gun in history.”
When you take a lil peek in the ark of the covenant and your stupid nazi face melts just a lil bit
Unexpected Indiana Jones reference
Simo Häyhä wasn’t a Nazi but I did chuckle
Who was Finland allied with? Also, why was the symbol of the finnish military a swastika until 2020?
Nobody. During Winter War Finland was fighting alone against Soviet Union.
I think that’s one of the things that made the war so notable, tiny Finland fighting against huge Soviet Union, 1 v 1.
It wasn’t the symbol of Finnish military till 2002. It was in some limited use. I think it still is btw. The reason was that it’s old Finnish symbol since I think iron ages or before and for example the air force logo came from a Swedish count in 1918. Pretty interesting history.
Holy hell this is wrong. Finland in the winter war was a fascist state allied with Germany and it had been since the communists lost the civil war in 1918. Communists had been rounded up and put in camps by the tens of thousands. Finland was effectively a German puppet state by the time the Soviets invaded in 1939.
Finland in the winter war was a fascist state allied with Germany
No, you are thinking of Continuation War. During Winter War Finland wasn’t allied with Germany, rather contrary to that Germany was hampering some efforts to ship armaments to Finland because of Molotov-Ribbentrop. Not only that, Finland wasn’t at all fascist. It was a functioning multi-party democracy.
Finland was effectively a German puppet state by the time the Soviets invaded in 1939.
That has no basis in reality. I suggest you read this article that gives some basics about the background for Winter War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_of_the_Winter_War
See for example: "Finnish–German relations cooled after the National Socialist Party rose to power in Germany in 1933. Finns admired Imperial Germany, but not the radical and antidemocratic Nazi regime. Finnish conservatives did not accept the Nazis’ state violence and antireligious policies. Still, there was sympathy for German aims to revise the Treaty of Versailles, but the official Finnish policy was reserved, especially after the German invasion of Czechoslovakia. Finland even recalled its ambassador for a short period.
Finnish Nazis and ultranationalist parties such as the Patriotic People’s Movement achieved only minor support in several elections, especially in the aftermath of the failed Mäntsälä rebellion in 1932."
Why did Finland Siege Leningrad from the north and seize the northern isthmus?
Why did Finland attempt to cut off Murmansk on the German’s orders?
That’s not Winter War, that’s Continuation War. Simo Häyhä didn’t fight in Continuation War. As for war aims during Continuation War, the answer is obvious, to defeat USSR. It’s like asking why Germany bombed the UK.
He wanted to fight in the Continuation War, he was barred entry to the army.
Also the Continuation War began in 1944. Those things I mentioned happened in 1941, during Operation Barbarossa. Finland was an ally of Nazi Germany.
He wanted to fight in the Continuation War, he was barred entry to the army.
Yes
Also the Continuation War began in 1944.
No, Continuation War happened 1941-44. You’re thinking of Lapland War now. That’s 1944-45.
Jerking off about the Winter War is stereotypical Finnish online mega cringe.
I honestly see it a lot more from people outside of Finland. And we often cringe at that too.
“Oh you’re from Finland? Kimi Räikkönen Simo Häyhä Winter War you win against USSR right??”
“…”
The solution is to avoid mentioning you’re Finnish
“So, where are you from?”
“Uhhhh, gotta go”
idk. if you’re shooting communists, you’re probably a nazi.
In this case the communist attacked you and started shooting you first. I’d imagine most would defend themselves when attacked
It’s an interesting idea though that anyone who communists attack are Nazis. Maybe the funniest conclusion from that is that Vietnamese were Nazis since China attacked Vietnam in 1979.
The Finnish state that fought the Soviet Union, the one which was allied with Nazi Germany, was only established after the wholesale massacre of communists and workers. Anticommunism is the modus operandi of fascism in all its forms. The axis powers in WWII were formalized in the “Anti-Comintern Pact” to which Finland was a signatory.
Using something happened in 1918 and especially 1941 to justify calling Finland Nazi during Winter War that happened in 1939-40 seems fairly creative.
Interesting thing about the Civil War and Winter War though. After the Civil War Finland was heavily divided nation for a long time. And while the wounds had started to heal some, it was the opposition to the Soviet attack that actually brought the left and right together. I’m not sure how true it is, but I’ve heard Stalin expected the Finnish workers to celebrate him coming over and “freeing them” and was quite surprised that they were having none of that.
That’s again something that happened after Winter War. Official Finnish policy towards Jews was luckily much better during the war. Even resulted in funny things such as Nazis awarding a Finnish Jewish soldier the Iron Cross, which is just bizarre to think about.
Wasn’t Finland aligned with the Axis directly after the Winter War? Doesn’t seem like a huge stretch.
It would feel a bit strange to say Finland was Nazi during Winter War because during Continuation War Finland was Axis aligned when the USSR attack in Winter War is the biggest reason Finland sought closer ties with Germany.
So:
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The Soviet Union feared that the noted anti-communists in control of Finland would allow it to be used as an operating base for the Nazis.
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The USSR attempted diplomatic resolution to those fears with Finland.
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They were denied.
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The USSR invades Finland to secure safety from that fear.
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They win.
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The noted anti-communists in control of Finland then allow it to be used by the Nazis as a base for the Nazis, and support them in attacking the USSR.
You’re saying the Continuation War happened solely because of the Winter War, and that the noted anti-communists were in no-way ideologically aligned with the Nazis before the USSR’s attack?
The USSR wanted Finland to give it areas including the main Finnish defensive line. Knowing what happened with Czechoslovakia and “just a few areas” and knowing what happened to Baltics, it’s easy to see what road that would’ve taken Finland down on.
You’re saying the Continuation War happened solely because of the Winter War
No, I’m saying Finland sought help from the Nazis because during Winter War Finland was left completely alone, the preferred alliance direction of Nordics or UK/France/US panning out to not have done much at all. And both sides, USSR and Finland knew it was just a temporarily truce and another war was coming. Obviously Finland didn’t want to be alone, again.
the noted anti-communists were in no-way ideologically aligned with the Nazis before the USSR’s attack
Mostly the Finnish leadership were noted anglophiles.
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Mfw I get half my face blown off by an explosive bullet, and then get left for dead by my comrades.
Bro think he Gus💀
https://twitter.com/After__History/status/1698068265699086806
The “legend” of Simo Häyhä is a product of Finnish nationalist myth-making. There is no evidence to suggest that he killed that many people—the absurdly high “542 kill count” is war propaganda that was never confirmed by even Hayha himself, as shown by the historian F. Marjomaa
These superhero-like sniper legends endure today as highly sensational pop history in service of nationalism. In reality, it was not at all possible (or desirable) for snipers to accurately keep track of kills, and stories of bravado were grossly exaggerated over time
It’s also worth noting that the “RuSSians” Häyhä did kill would have included a significant number of Ukrainians and Central Asians, so it’s strange to see someone with a Ukraine flag emoji in their name gloating over Ukrainians being killed.
There is this tendency to project the current russia and Ukraine conflict back into history, which really makes zero sense in the Soviet context given that Ukrainians were Soviets who by and large earnestly believed in and fought for the Soviet project.
Anyways, this is not to say Häyhä was not a talented soldier (he was), but that these narratives are a highly distorted, and unhelpful way of understanding history prone to exaggeration, essentially treating war like a Call of Duty game scoreboard.
One should also hesitate to treat Häyhä as a hero. While he did not serve in the continuation war when Finland was allied with the Nazis, this was not out of any kind of protest. He wished to participate but was unable to do so due to the injuries from fighting the Soviets.
SS from this article. Every researcher who has seriously studied Hayha’s “count” using archival evidence has concluded it’s been grossly exaggerated. Also, see the work of Hannu Narsakka or Oleg Kiselev. Nothing really in English though, unfortunately
Wait was he Pro-Axis? I only ever hear the kill count and see the picture of the face, I didn’t see the uniform before, what uniform is that?
The guy fought in the Finnish-Soviet war. Against the Soviets and for the Axis-aligned Finland. Do you think he might be a tiny bit pro-Axis?
I shit you not I never knew
Lol same, just saw him whitewashed in some war pop history listicle as a teenager and it was years before i found out
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Well no problem, now you do. We all learn new things, yeah?
I’d bet that most righties probably purposely obscure the fact and paint him as a “Finnish sniper” above all else
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The uniform is what threw me, back in the day at least, because I know what Soviet and Nazi uniforms look like and I didn’t know that one
Boy we’re just going all in with the “Nazis we’re the coolest” shit huh?
Just going? It’s been gaining traction since 1985 at least
stalin shouldn’t have stopped at berlin
Wait, has this fucking guy decided to involve himself in the Continuation War?
No, this was the Finnish sniper during the Winter War. He wanted to serve in the Continuation War but he was dismissed and barred entry because of the extent of the injuries he suffered, and because his death would have been a propaganda disaster.
He was that close, without any reluctance, to commit to supporting the Nazis? So much so for fucking national defense…
Finland knew what side of the war they were on.
CW: Nazi imagery
Hmmm I wonder what side that was 🤔
Granted, they did start using the swastika 20 years before the Germans did. But the fact they didn’t change it during or after the war is very telling.
Wasn’t it the same guy that got both countries interested in the symbol?
It turns out you’re right lmao
The guy was the brother in law to Herman Goering and gifted planes to Finland so they used the symbol.
It has been changed since (in 1945) and it’s only used very rarely. I think there’s some pride there about lot “letting Nazis ruin the logo”. It was one of major Finnish national symbols prior to Nazis and used since like iron ages. So bit of pride involved there.
Funny story. Finnish president Urho Kekkonen was visiting French president Charles de Gaulle and gave him a honory knighthood thing. Only problem, the symbolic necklace came with swastikas. Of course de Gaulle wasn’t a huge fan of that and Finns, realizing the issue, later changed the necklace and sent him the new one. Giving de Gaulle a swastika necklace as a present, lol.
It’s not a Nazi symbol, it’s just a symbol we got from a Nazi. No connection, move along, NATO IS GREAT NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS
Uhhhhhh no… the air force roundel of the Finnish air force was only chosen because the brother in law to Herman Goering gifted Finland it’s first few fighters and he emblazoned them with the swastika because he liked the symbol.
That same guy would later go on to help make the Nazi flag.
used since like iron ages
the first documented use I can see was a finnish artist called Akseli Gallen-Kallela in 1889
The fucking iron ages huh?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53249645
replaced in 1945 eh?
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That guy became a prominent Nazi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen
Lmao
“Uhm that’s not a swastika, it comes from a different source”.
Source is a Nazi
Two decades after Finnish air force had adopted it. Saying it’s Nazi imaginery based on that would seem a bit strange, like the property of something being Nazi travels back in time.
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