Liberation Theology? Religion is not my thing (though I have at least read the Bible, Old and New Testament), but I have organized with someone into Liberation Theology; I don’t mind at all.
Yea, liberation theology is pretty great. I base my practicing of Catholicism around its theory. It is okay that you do not think religion is your thing, all who engage in good faith are welcome on the sub.
“good faith”
Aha! Like the pun.
I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness and was one for nearly 30 years. I have even given public talks before. I am no longer a Christian but my background in preaching is remarkably close to a background in organizing.
I’m an ex-jw too! I am just unable to find peace near religious people tho.
That is really unfortunate, and I am sorry you feel that way. There are nasty people in every group, but not all of us religious are like that. I do not know what to say further :/
The thing I dislike more is intelectual dishonesty, and as an ex religious myself I KNOW this is a main feature, not an anecdote… At least try reading material history of your own set of beliefs as I did…
I am unable to understand how trying to mix idealism with Marxism is a non controversial thing, but reminding everyone that Abrahamism is reactionary can get you banned from most communist groups…
I am curious about your name. Are you from the Bible state region?
No, from Spain. Still a place very, very religious, in a variety of ways, which made me comprehend more the inherent nature of religions in general, specially Abrahamism.
Hey I’m an atheist too. But I’m curious, how do you it is the right way to deal with religion?
Education where honest analysis is given to believers and dealing with apologists of reactionary ideologies the same way we would do if they weren’t claiming magical thinking to justify their reactionary rethoric. Religions are all ideologies. If a political ideology rises where they claim that women are inferior, slavery isn’t wrong, the followers are some sort of chosen superior people and even race, they promote genocide and the extermination of LGBTs, public shaming of people not following dogmatic precepts and even ending in ostracism (material harm) and even may end in some honour murder… Would it be torelable to let then promote this? Then, why is it torelable if they use an even more anti-materialist, anti-scientigic and anti-dialectical element such a god that commands to obey the promoters or else?
the real problem it is literally impossible to erase, as, for now, it is ingrained in the psyche of the world. Taking it away will have disastrous consequences. It was one of the USSR’s mistakes
As it wad letting religions have a say being the main reason the USSR didn’t become even more forwarded than it was. And even worse: a lot of LatAm leftism has a shit ton of ingrained homophobia precisely because the principal leftist branch is Lib.Theo.
I didn’t know that about the latin american left
Yeah… This is the main reason most of queer are liberals and more surely Camino Dorado may have been born… I can’t fucking believe how even today atheist leftist still can’t cope the fact that Theosocialism is the same grade of contradictions as Nazbolism, MonSoc, PatSoc or Socdems…
Woah comrade that is very much true. thank you for this perspective.
Prosperity theology is neoliberal and is one of the most reactionary and homophobic branches. There is no doubt that there is a contradiction between marxism and religion, but problems do not arise from religion per se, religion is ONLY the symptom of bigger problems (opium for the masses)
Wrong. Lib. Theo is not thaaaaaat influent here. But yes, latAm is very christian and homophobic. But it is not ideologies or theologies that create these prejudices, but the prior material conditions.
They were always in the minority. Today they are more minority than ever, facing the success of neoliberal prosperity theology.
You really think that the homophobia dragged from religions (religions are ideologies, mind you) don’t have a material and power interest? In ancient times many deities had a priesthood dominated by non-cis/non-het in a world where religious and political influences were impossible to separate. And Yahweism rose after the control of all the Hebrew state eliminating all competence while also implementing a rise in nationalistic mythos in a very similar way Francisco Franco made El Cid Campeador a national deity or even invented Don Pelayo Silvio.
(please, understand the next in the most natural, politically human a.k.a. REAL way) One common deity in Israel was Asherah, which was the consort of El and mother of Yahweh, then when El stopped being the patron deity, Asherah became the consort of Yahweh (in other Canaanite nations they did the same with their own patron gods, like Asherah wife of Ba’al, for example). During NeoBabylonian exile, the Hebrews became monolastric due to nationalist propaganda so they would kind of unite in their own identity in the most copium way, specially to save the sacerdotal class of the time, and forged prophets such as Daniel, Samson, plagiarized myths like the Epic of Gilgamesh, with characters such as Zyusudra for Noah, or the Enuma Elish for Genesis with propagandistic purposes and maybe it was during that time that they invented Moses to finish the Hebrew übermensch mentality and narrative. With this, they needed to also get rid of the rival native priesthood once they became independent againt before the Helenic domain, forging Deuteronomy, where believers of Yahweh, the majority of the land, had to commit genocide against foreign influence and eliminate the other sacerdots in a very classic oligarch vs oligarch parallel we see today.
Asherah, which has been mentioned, was the second most followed deity there was in that place in that time. And you know which made the Sacerdotal Class of Asherah? Women and Transwomen. Guess what also commanded Deuteronomy? The systemic eradication of queer people.
Which has endured until today.
It’s true, material conditions form ideologies, but ideologies can be dragged a looooooooooong way til today to foment the rise and maintenance of an structural power. We still have kings and their monarchist horde. We still have Sacerdotal Chiefs and their theocracist horde. And we obviously have oligarchs, capitalists and bourgeoisie of all kind and their liberal hord. And funny enough, all they share in common is the same idealism, staticism and antirevolutionary elements that religions have… Not to mention that monarchism was conserved THANKS to Christianity and liberalism itself is a Protestant based ideology.
I agree with most of what you said here, but I don’t think we should see religion as simply another ideology. The main reason people become religious is because it’s something that gives them comfort and helps them deal with the hardships of life, mainly caused by the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. I saw you mentioning above you’re from Spain, I’m from Brasil and we are deeply religious, to the point people are more tolerant with trans people, ex-prisioners and many other marginalized groups than atheists (though not by much). My country is extremely reactionary and homophobic, but even in the our most successful leftists groups, such as MST, people are still deeply religious - and they are far from being homophobes or reactionaries. Going against religion here is basically political suicide. It’s sad, but it is what it is. As much as idealistic religions are though, they still are fundamentally different from liberalism and other ideologies because it’s main drive is to provide comfort.
Obviously, communists should not promote religions, but cracking down hard on them was a mistake back then and it would be a mistake now, specially with a religion like Christianity, that is full of followers with persecution complexes. Going after them would just give them justification.
The best way to fight them is to destroy what makes people seek them in the first place, that being the horrendous reality the working class lives on. For example, in many Favelas, there is basically nowhere you can go for cultural activities, like music, arts and sports… except in the local church. There, you can sing songs to praise god, and someone who was interested in learning music, it is the best place the person can go. Instead of destroying the only place people have to go, we should build basic infrastructure, parks, incentivize cultural activities in schools, where they can actually learn to draw/sing or whatever, and eventually, the church will become obsolete. Parallel to that, we have to strip away schools of any form of religion indoctrination, but there is no need to take a HARD anti-religion instance. We should focus on teaching them actual sciences and critical thinking, not on combating religion. Education + improvement of life conditions + no persecution of religions (but no incentivizing) is probably the best strategy we could follow. But it’s a long term one.
Fascists/libs on the other hand, may they rot in prison
I know, I know… And I fucking hate it, because religion is actually the door for reactionary, and people can’t live without opium… Yet here we are, atheist being persecuted just because we are clean. It’s fucking unfair, to be honest, and religion is precisely promoted by the bougies…
In my experience, the best thing that destroys faith in magic is the use of science and promoting platforms for education were skeptics can be protected and listened, while also eliminating all privileges of confessions. Being “hard” against believers may be the wrong way, since you just need a minimum scratch to make the leftiest of religious go full reactionary nutjob guru victim complex and lying machine gun (have evidence), but if we begin handling down minorital sects exposing why they are dangerous groups, such as Mormons, JWs, etc, it could be an spark that will lead to finally the dinamitation of a whole majority wanting to remove religion from the sight… Specially if you use tools such as the BITE (Behavior Information Though and Emotion) control model, we can make people realize that sacred texts, practically all of them, are cult manuals. This may help.
My answer for this, lastly, is: what did the Good Germany do to all of them Nazis when became socialist? Did it work? I think this is a good example to make first steps. Mostly where reeducated and rehabilitated, religious people just need more subtlety. Yesterday, I was in tears of joy: I deconverted someone precisely using street epistemology, and luring them into being intellectually honest with his beliefs, what actually says the Bible, and how it contradicts the world and even Jesus’s words are silly in a honest mentality. It may not be that difficult having the right people on it.
Good thing the Abrahamic religions are not reactionary ;)
Hey, do you believe that the Bible doesn’t mention the systemic killing of LGBTs as an obligation in the OT too? Or that Jesus was not a Jewish circumsiced dude that claimed to “fulfill the law”? Or you have read a different Bible? You could also admit that you actually haven’t, eh? The absolute majority of Christianity hasn’t done it,just believed at face value what their family, priest, friends, etc said because “if they are confident when saying the thing, then the thing must be true”.
Your posts have been sporadic, incoherent, and off base. I am sorry, but you seem quite unhinged and seem to be dealing with some personal things; you might want to step away from the computer and go outside for a bit. I do not know who hurt you, but I am terribly sorry they did. Please, allow us Christians to practice our faith in peace, as we as Christian socialists will always allow you the same. We are both comrades, we are both striving for the socialist ideal, let us leave it at that.
I can’t trust that you Christians will ever let epople scape from the trap your system of dogmas is… I can’t trust any of you regardless of how I want it… And outside the internet is even worse…
I will… Just not shut up in my commitment on religious antipropaganda… I am tired of having the same people that has been hurting me and my family constantly be free of pass to do what they want and yet people like me and all survivors of religions have to be considered outcasts even from alleged comrades while I see them being embraced more and more by the alt-right and because populism and all the wrong reasons…
“Thanks” for the alienation of ex religious and atheists against communism. “Thanks” a lot.
I do not know what to tell ya man, the working class is a mixed bag of religious and non-religious. You can’t just not associate with religious folk. But no one is forcing you to believe or practice Christianity. The dogma I firmly believe in has no bearing on you, or society as a whole.
Feel free to ban that radical atheist from this community. We support religious comrades here.
thanks man, I appreciate it
It… It does like… A 100%…
Also, it will be funny if you try to portray as different as PatSocs, SocDems or MonSocs… Like… There’s little difference.
This is either peak revisionism, willful ignorance or the most dishonest expression I have ever seen, and it came from “a comrade”.
Can I ask a question? If you win, will you eliminate all Sacerdotal Class, or will take the obvious path of theocracism “thy kingdom come” classic way? Why is it non contradictory mixing idealism with Marxism? Do you also ignore the Historical Materialism regarding the birth of your religious beliefs, or is it a sacrilegious blasphemy where in a “Socialist” Christian society I would have to starve to death due to excommunication “a l’ancienne”?
The clergy would not be a class, it would be like anyone else’s vocation. Has it been a class in the past, and sometimes still today? Sure. No one denies that. But it is not required for the priesthood to act as a class to exist. It is simply a vocation. Marxism is the scientific analysis of capitalism, and religion can be independent of the current independent economic system. I assure you, the Orthodox Church existed in the Soviet Union, and there are many religions found within the People’s Republic of China. Am I a cradle Catholic? Yea, but I still believe it is true. I have looked at other faiths, and none seem to be more correct than Catholicism, so there is that I suppose.
I do not think it is the Christian ideal, nor the socialist ideal, to have anyone starve to death simply for their faith lol.
Still, idealism opposes Marxism, and I know how Catholicism acts against non-believers… Why don’t you read material history?
Now that I have more time: The sacerdotal system is classist per se because they are entitled to first of all promote their ideology (religions are all idealist ideologies) and the believers are committed to follow them or else (consequences may vary, but ostracism from their cradle society is the usual, except in theocracist places, where excommunication equals literal death by different means). Believers are forced to maintain their Sacerdotal Leeches in order to proceed their guild functional and even more, have their idealist objectives fulfilled without reaching their idealist punishments fulfilled (the absolute and despicable and shameful doctrine of Hell, Armageddon, etc), while also being a non believer the most punishable sin of all.
Also, their core doctrines are based in: immobility(opposed to dialecticality) ,idealism(opposed to materialism), hierarchy based on non material events, reactionary control of behavior, though, sex, education (BITE model, even made from a liberal, is an incredible good method to determine cults, and sincerely, all religions fall under it). And not to mention historical revisionism. Not only the part about Creation and the Universal Flood and its Geocentric, Flat Earth inside a celestial metal/glass like dome being myths to justify why Yahweh is God and why it deserves full obedience and even the sacrifice of richness, food, cattle and even firstborn children, regardless of the dishonest excuse of the “metaphorical fallacy”, which then begs the question about why god is not a metaphor if its claimed biggest attributes and events are non real… But also the main reasons Abrahamism is the true religion are false. Moses was not real, the Exodus never happened (quite the contrary, actually), Joshua being also a forgery, Daniel, etc, and also the New Testament being completely dependant of the Old one, where not only Paul’s letters came before anyt Gospel, but also we have little of none historical evidence for Jesus, and even worse, even if he was real, not only he would be nothing like in the Bible, which as written decades after his attributed death, but also we DON’T KNOW any real thing that happened to him or even said, being Paul’s authority in the formation of the Christian ideology superior to the Gospels, but also Jesus was a cultist nutjob asshole that commanded women to be subject to their husbands, slaves to be obedient, to never retaliate against oppressors, giving all the richnesses to the “temple”, but also not to wash your hands, and promising the end of the world like the good old escatohological zealot he was… Two thousand years ago, and commanding the grooling over a theocracy government (thy kingdom comes), which was PERFECT to the Romans and later all the western empires of history, like Charlemagne’s, where systemic persecution of pagans and non believers was done since then and even until… What? In Spain we basically had the inquisition until the 80’s and still the catholic church has a perpetual orgasm of privileges.
Then, tell me. Why should I not be committed to be against this? How can any reasonable person be able to cope left though with Abrahamism, where the most “socialist” part was about BEING POOR LIKE THE LIBERAL PARODY OF VUVUZELA NO IPHONE!?
Firsty, I don’t think you are arguing in good faith, but I’ll engange nonetheless. ‘‘Not only the part about Creation and the Universal Flood and its Geocentric, Flat Earth inside a celestial metal/glass’’ - This quote implies Biblical Literalism, which is found primarily in reactionary Christian communities, not in leftist ones. I acknowledge the Bible as a historically innacurate source, but that does not take away from its value as a story. The Old Testament (Genesis in particular) contains many myths, but the fact that they are myths does not mean that 1) we cannot learn from them and 2) that they are worthless. Of course there wasn’t a universal flood and of course the Earth is neither flat nor in the center of the Universe, those are relics from ancient Mesopotamian and Semitic religions. But just as we do with fables, we can extrapolate moral lessons from them, and discern which ones are worth extrapolating (the thing with Lot and Isaac and all of that fuckery). ‘‘Abrahamism is the true religion are false’’ - As with all beliefs, they are a matter of opinion. I believe my Semitic Abrahamic religion to be true, but I might be wrong. In the end, I beleve that all religions and beliefs are different glasses through which we see God. ‘‘the New Testament being completely dependant of the Old one’’ - That is what happens when religions come from other religions. Christianity comes from Judaism, particulary Second Temple Judaism, so it is perfectly normal (and even expected) that Christian scripture and theology is dependen on the Old Testament. ‘‘Paul’s letters came before anyt Gospel’’ - The Gospels were a compilation of historical tradition, jus as with any religious text. ‘‘we have little of none historical evidence for Jesus’’ - Most historians agree that 1) Jesus of Nazareth was a real guy that lived in Palestine in the 1st century and 2) that he was crucified by the romans. ‘‘we DON’T KNOW any real thing that happened to him or even said’’ - As I said before, we do know a couple of things about him, and we also have the Q Source, compiled around the year 50 b.C. probably by a direct disciple of Jesus, that do tell us some thigs he probaly said. ‘‘being Paul’s authority in the formation of the Christian ideology superior to the Gospels’’ - Indeed Paul’s theology can be seen in the Gospel, and also Peter’s (in the Gospel of Mark) and John’s (in the Gospel and Letters of John), and that is not a bad thing, that is how religions work. ‘‘but also Jesus was a cultist nutjob asshole that commanded women to be subject to their husbands, slaves to be obedient, to never retaliate against oppressors, giving all the richnesses to the “temple”’’ - Firstly, this is not true. You are oversimplificating a very complex issue of late 1st and 2nd century additions to the Bible. The Gospels never say that women are subservient to men and that slaves should be obedient, those appear in the Epistels to Timothy and Titus, and most scholars agree that they were not written by Paul, but that they were later additions written after his death, therefore in my opinion they have little to no theological value. ‘‘but also not to wash your hands’’ - That was said in a particular context, which should not be removed. It was a response to the Pharisees’ hipocrisy, not a command to be an unygienic pig. ‘‘and promising the end of the world like the good old escatohological zealot he was…’’ - And the world is still here, that is why we use nuance with the Bible. Paul said not to marry and be celibate because the end was near, but since it is obvious that it isn’t, then we should take it with a grain of salt. The lesson to learn here is that we should always be good and try our best, because as it is said in the Gospels, the end could come anytime, and if it doesn’t, then at least we loved our neighbour, fed the hungry, clothed the nakes, etc. ‘‘like Charlemagne’s, where systemic persecution of pagans and non believers was done since then and even until… What?’’ - With Charlemagne, first, it was how things worked in the Middle Ages for everyone, which DOES NOT EXCUSE SUCH ACTIONS, but humanity has always justified violence with religion. The Christians did it, the Muslims did it, the Vikings did it… Again, IT IS NO EXCUSE, but it is how things worked. It was an evil thing to do, we acknowledge that, just as it was evil for the Spanish Empire to genocide Native Americans in the name of God. But also that is no excuse to shit on all Christians, especially those who do not harm anyone. ‘‘In Spain we basically had the inquisition until the 80’s and still the catholic church has a perpetual orgasm of privileges.’’ - I know that, I am a Spaniard. In my church we have fascist imagery on the door. My town and those near it are full of ultracatholic reactionaries. Again, they hide behind the name of God to uphold an oppresive system, the same thing the Catholic Church has done since it gained political power, and is doing still to this day. That is why there are groups of leftist catholics that fight for a better church, such as Cristianos de base de Madrid, which is the one I’m most familiar with. I believe that it won’t be possible to do so unless we strip the church’s political power, but that is a personal opinion. ‘‘Then, tell me. Why should I not be committed to be against this?’’ - Because people’s individual beliefs are their own personal thing, and nobody’s business but theirs, and that should be respected. If you push for militant atheism you will alienate all the Christian working class and push them to the arms of the reactionaries, just as Lenin said. Keep religion and state separate, and let people believe what they wish. If their belief harms others, educate them, and if not, the live and let live. And as Jesus said, love your neighbour as yourself. ‘‘How can any reasonable person be able to cope left though with Abrahamism’’ - That is a personal journey that all Christian leftists go through, and it’s a tough one, believe me, to decostruct all the reactionary tradition within the church and theology, and make peace with your politics and your religion. But I believe that the most Christian ideology is socialism, and the most socialist religion is Christianity. ‘‘where the most “socialist” part was about BEING POOR LIKE THE LIBERAL PARODY OF VUVUZELA NO IPHONE!?’’ - I could quote you all the Bible verses that are clearly socialist, but this is long enough already. I just hope that this wall of text has at least warmed your heart towards Christians. Peace be with you and God bless.
Also I believe I’ve read somewhere in this thread that you are a fellow Spaniard, so allow me to link you Lenin’s thought on religion, which I have been unable to find in English, only in Spanish: https://www.marxists.org/espanol/lenin/obras/1900s/1909reli.htm
Paz camarada, no pasarán.
Also, forgive my poor formatting, if you will. I am still getting used to this site.
No puedo. Simplemente no puedo. Primero de todo:el judaísmo viene de religiones paganas semitas, demostradisimo, hasta el punto que plagiaron el Enuma Elish, el personaje Zyusudra, y otros elementos mosopotámicos, y aún a sabiendas de ello, seguís sin ver el problema de que algo copiado y plagiado de otros mitos para ser considerados después los hebreos los übermensch de Canaan (recordemos que los hebreos eran cananeos) no queda invalidado, sobretodo cuando sus héroes no existen.
Después de que no queráis ser conscientes que vuestra excusa del “metafórico” invalida entonces también cualquier reclamo sobre divinidad como real, porque claro, si el Génesis es metafórico, por qué no lo es el hecho de Cristo siendo… Bueno, Cristo?
La religión NO ES PERSONAL, afecta a los alrededores y precisamente Lenin abarcó el tema de cómo confiar en los religiosos fue un error tremendo en la Segunda Internacional… Y NO. Jesús mismo fue quien mencionó a la mujer a seguir “sujetas a sus maridos” y otras “maravillas” como que “no es lo que entra en la boca si no lo que sale de ella lo que te enferma”, por poner otros ejemplos. Estoy harto de que uséis miles de excusas para escudaros, pero que pobre de nosotros, los que tenemos que SOBREVIVIR de la sociedad en la que no sólo participáis si no que además promocionáis, y luego se os quede la “cara de pikachu” cuando elementos reaccionarios siguen en pie.
“No es en buena fe”? No pienso actuar de “buena fe” hacia apologistas y propagandistas que actúan de este modo con tal de PRECISAMENTE ALIENAR A LA CLASE OBRERA A FAVOR DEL CLERO Y SU IDEOLOGIA Y DE PRECISAMENTE ALIENAR A VÍCTIMAS DE LAS RELIGIONES PORQUE PRECISAMENTE LES LAMÉIS LAS BOTAS A TIRANOS IMAGINARIOS EN VEZ DE REFUGIAR A EXMUSULMANES, EXCRISTIANOS, EXJUDAISTAS, EXHINDÚES y un largo etcétera sinfin, en el que sólo terminan encontrando refugio dentro del alt right precisamente por VUESTRA culpa, por vuestra falta de honestidad intelectual.
Lo que dijo Lenin sobre los socialdemócratas se puede perfectamente aplicar a la izquierda religiosa, y sabes por qué? Sigues usando los mismos símbolos, la misma biblia, la misma creencia, la misma mitología, la misma retórica apologista y las mismas falacias propagandística que esos “no, yo no soy como esos” cristianos franquistas, fascistas y en general reaccionarios casados con el clero y el capital.
Y siempre estarás enlazado con ellos a menos que despiertes de toda esa propaganda idealista anti materialista que sólo sirve que para darles coba al mismo clero! Paz!? Qué paz voy a tener si para vosotros soy un puto perro de mierda que tiene que ir al infierno y vale menos que una puta hostia consagrada o un vino que “literalmente” se transfigura en “sangre de cristo”? Y ENCIMA PRETENDES IR DE RACIONAL Y DISTINTO AL RESTO CUANDO ERES QUIENES LES DEFIENDES!? PAZ!? PAZ CUANDO NO PUEDO DORMIR POR LAS NOCHES Y MIS SUPUESTOS CAMARADAS SERÍAN LOS PRIMEROS EN TRAICIONARME POR NO CREER EN LA MISMA PATRAÑA QUE ES EL COMBUSTIBLE DEL FASCISMO!? YO YA NO PUEDO CONFIAR! YA NO PUEDO VOLVER A SER ENGAÑADO! PARA MÍ YA HAN PASADO Y SE HAN QUEDADO EN MI MISMA CAMA! YA HABÉIS PASADO, Y ME IMPORTA UNA MIERDA QUEDAR COMO EL EDGY ATHEIST! YA! NO! PUEDO! MÁS! CON! ESTA! MIERDA!!!
Siento mucho que la iglesia y la religión te hayan hecho sufrir así, de veras. Te podría decir que ellos no eran de Dios, que no todos somos así, te podría decir mil cosas pero no creo que te vayan a servir de nada. Sólo que si necesitas hablarlo, me puedes mandar un mensaje directo o lo que coño haya aquí, que con estas moderneces no me apaño.
Y pido disculpas por la agresividad de mi comentario, y por haber tratado un asunto tan espinoso de forma tan soberbia. Me han llamado hipócrita muchas veces por ser rojo (y otras cosas) además de cristiano, y al final se pierden las formas. Así que por favor, discúlpame.
Sobre lo demás, podríamos hablar de panteísmo y mitología comparada, pero ya es tarde y mañana madrugo.
Un abrazo camarada.
Puedo entenderte puesto que antes fui Testigo de Jehová, luego místico variado, cristiano libertino, cristiano crítico y finalmente honesto y escéptico.
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Which is an enormous error since religions are all ideologies that shield themselves in magic claimings perpetuating reactionary structures and having free passes everywhere.
In Xinjiang itself, atheist people has been and probably still is, very persecuted from their theist Muslim neighbors to a point that it was almost unbearable pre- deradicalication policies, where people could get beaten up for eating pork.
Religions are a principal contradiction that is completely reaccionary due to its nature about how its constructed their cosmology and to whom (fictional) characters they give authority too.
Religions should be treated as any other political ideology no matter how many fairies, deities, hells and more fantasies are summoned to have their special pleadings listened and fucking stop being given this exceptionalism they are constantly enjoying their main conmen called sacerdots, who are a superior class against their víctims, the believers, who are leeched out for nonsensical threats and pseudoscience. Lenin was right about religion, and not listening to him will cost us even more than we imagine.
Religion must be actively eradicated with the same medicine they use to spread in the same equivalent force.
And if you find this claim of mine “desproportionally inhuman” then it says more about religious people than anything else.
And no, I don’t want them to necessarily receive what their ancestors did to pagans and unbelievers, but to have an strong anti propagandist campaign until current religions are held like the ancient myths they are, with the same value as the myths of Zeus or Marduk, and knowing everyone that religions were and are manufactured to gain material power. There is not a single hierophant that doesn’t know they is a conman/con-woman(?) snake oil seller.
I do think it was a mistake in the USSR to have state atheism though. Correct me I am wrong, but to hold elected office in the USSR one had to be officially an atheist.
I agree with you though, it is common sense for the state to permit the practice of faiths or the lack thereof. But for the state to mandate atheism for officials is no different than the state mandating officials fold a particular faith.
but to hold elected office in the USSR one had to be officially an atheist.
I think it’s the same in the PRC, but maybe not as tight? Chinese State officials can still engage in some religious rituals privately as cultural practices (Ramadan for example). Not entirely sure on the details though because I was never religious (or a State official) while I was in China, so all of this is second hand.
There is an “official” Catholic Church in China though, recognized by the Vatican and IIRC run by the government? Or maybe just overseen by them?
At least China has the thing of not letting religions get in state issues and maybe the opposite. But still not tight enough.
You mean a Christian will have the guts to not represent “muh Christian values” in its power resenting anything that we as non believers had been fighting for even before communism wasn’t though?
State atheism is the only way your Bible doesn’t get in the way in the rights of non-cis, non-het, women, children to not get indoctrinated in schools and more stuff.
Scratch a religious “leftist” and a theocracist bleeds, uh?
Also, Christians have to wait in Christ for the End of the World to come and not be mixed in the “affairs of the World since you are not part of the World” as Jesus said. Have some consistency at least.
