Seriously. I don’t know if it’s because it’s the summer but these breadtube kids are popping up everywhere these last few weeks.
And they consistently have ignorant, bad takes to share. They don’t understand anything about everything but think that because they’ve watched some guy yell at his screen for a few hours they’re suddenly
They’re people who don’t want to read theory because it’s boring (I think it requires time but it’s very interesting, just needs some motivation to get started) but they will happily watch 3 hours long debates that turn into random shit halfway through.
I don’t mean to rant but I’ve just had a Destiny stan tell me “holocaust denialism on the left” for not believing the uyghur thing. Destiny despises communists and anarchists, the latter of which that person identifies as. They don’t understand what holocaust denialism even is, they don’t understand how people could come to different conclusions than them, they literally just want to feel superior because they’re pure and we’re not, somehow.
They think this will score them points with libertarians and neolibs (and maybe even fascists, as they don’t even understand fascism), by pushing under the bus the only other people who are tangentially related to them. But the libertarians don’t give a shit. They’ll line up anarchists against the wall all the same. We’re all godless commies to them, it doesn’t matter your specific brand.
When was the last time an anarchist called you a Marxist-Leninist? They just say tankie now, as if it had any useful meaning (everyone has their own definition). It’s clear that they they acquired this word through memetic usage and don’t even know what it means. In some cases, I kid you not, people will say tankie but then ask “What’s ML mean?”.
Breadtube was a mistake, cancel that whole shit and get people back in books. Or at least watching important people, not some random bloke from a big city who started a youtube channel.
^ if it’s not high-effort or serious enough for c/communism please tell me where to repost, I’m not sure where else it can fit. Maybe my own c/comradelyrants lol but it’s dead :(
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So the question here is why flock to Vaush instead of the anti-imperialist Empire Files or Media Roots or Grayzone?
Those things aren’t comparable. People want to listen to or watch something entertaining, something they can laugh out loud to. Marx Madness is a good podcast along those lines and if there was a YouTuber with a similar energy they might do well.
Eh, with the exception of hbomberguy, I’ve never found any of them particularly funny or entertaining. Seeing how nonsensical imperialist media and capitalist society however does amuse me somewhat so I’m drawn to those types of content.
Hell, if I wanted to be entertained, I’d get a movie or something. Why would I sit there for 2 hours watching some western chauvinist rant about whatever country the CIA is targeting next?
Thought Slime is definitely funny and contapoints is funny and entertaining.
Watching a worse than useless warmongering radlib may be funny to you but as a person who takes US imperialism deathly seriously, I do not share your amusement and appreciation for these types of content creators.
Seems like you’re intentionally missing the point to pull a holier than thou. The question is “why do people watch breadtube instead of the grey zone” and the answer is that Vaush and Thought Slime and all them are funny. Even if you don’t personally find them entertaining, that is objectively why people watch them. If you offer something that is not attempting to be funny or entertaining to replace it, people won’t take it.
Right, because the point is completely uninteresting to me. It would be the equivalent of asking why somebody likes Bill Burr and getting a “He’s funny” for an answer. I’m sure we both understand how pathetic that is as an answer. What I’ve been trying to do so far is lead us deeper into the discussion.
Do you enjoy whatever Ben Shapiro or Tim Pool or Sargon of Akkad puts out? According to you, they must be real fucking funny. I’m sure it’s very amusing for the fascists to see Jews getting stuffed into ovens. So why don’t you? Why doesn’t the entirety of breadtube’s audience find those figures entertaining?
I’m going to point out the way you use your use words here:
In all of the above cases, you have made an assertion: That a thing can have an objective quality, that quality of course being entertaining. No, I do not say that people want to listen to or watch something entertaining. I say they want to watch things that entertain them. No, I do not say that Thought Slime is definitely funny. I say that you found him to be funny. In every case, I place the responsibility on the viewer and not on the content creator or the very content itself, because I understand things don’t hold an entertaining quality objectively, they are only deemed so subjectively. So sorry, I do not accept such an unsatisfying answer as X is funny, therefore people watch. I am instead trying to wring out a deeper reason from all this.
So I’m really asking this question: Why do people flock to breadtube types (knowing that they themselves are responsible for what is or is not entertaining)? I put forth that everything comes down to one’s predisposition. I am not predisposed to enjoy breadtube because the spreading of imperialist narratives by the people who are supposed to be your allies disgusts me. Just as you and I are probably not predisposed to enjoying Shapiro’s content because fascist narratives disgust us.
And thus, the true questions are revealed: What is the predisposition of breadtube’s audience? Are they in actuality, predisposed to enjoy content tinged with liberalism? What is the base that undergirds yours, mine or the fascists sense of humour?
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Do you believe we should insert ourselves in that culture? Participate more in those spaces? Be a “gamer or nerd” Marxist-Leninist?
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I feel like for many ML folks, this seems like a petty bourgeois affectation and hence something not worth doing. I’m not even sure if it’ll take hold even if you do it since there’s no guarantee anyone will even watch you. More likely, you’ll just be ignored by the algorithms.
Even now, since we’re mentioning it, I can’t imagine what an ML-ran gaming channel would look and sound like.
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I know FinnishBolshevik on YouTube tried it to do a gaming thing but he’s not that large. Either way I encourage people to read first and then watch videos, not matter how averse you may be to reading I feel like you have to read the material yourself first then use videos augment your understanding of what you read better. Like as I read Wage Labor and Profit and Capital I used videos that sum up what I read in more simpler fashions. But it’s true that everything is digital now and comrade MLs and especially MLMs(they’re often so serious) need to engage in more less serious meme warfare, spooky scary socialist did a few videos and he’s great at the sort of meme thing. The larger left youtubers unfortunately are mostly either radical liberals aka SocDems or Anarchists and to me an Anarchist view of leftism is too basic, then again Anarchism is usually a lot easier to swallow than the deep dive and details of Marxism Leninism and Marxism Leninism Maoism. Like muh tooth brush is a meme that always makes me laugh.
tbh online anarchists are mostly just radlibs who like leftist aesthetics. Plenty of actual leftists in the anarchist movement IRL, but online? Very rarely do I run into an anarchist online who is anything other than a liberal in denial.
Communists no doubt need to be engaging more fully in online agitation - memes are essentially just propaganda posters and fliers, and videos are not much different than corner speeches and community hall rallies. Communists have not ever really relied on reading as an agitation method, they’ve relied on popular media - pamphlets, hall rallies, and posters in the early 20th century. With the hulling out of the public sphere and communities, making use of online media formats (videos, podcasts, memes) fills those roles.
However I’d caution an over-reliance on the example of the young fascist/nationalist movement for radicalization - these are most often the children of the middle class, petty-bourgeois or bourgeois, whose interests are diametrically opposed to any form of socialist politics. The gaming community is overwhelmingly young, and a lot of the demographic data suggests that the reason why lower income and education groups are more often gamers is because they are people pursuing higher degrees, rather than it being working class folk who are more likely to play videogames.
More simply, that demographic is not necessarily being radicalized to the right because the right exists online and is accessible to them - it’s because those demographics have a material interest in right wing politics. We shouldn’t give that ground to the right, obviously, but they’re also not the demographic we should be spending the majority of our efforts online in radicalizing.
Online agitation on the left needs to be happening, but we should not replicate the strategies of the right simply because it seems to have worked for the right - they’ve specifically targeted the groups they’re targeting because those communities are already sympathetic to right-politics. The left should be doing the same, but consolidating influence and power in groups which have interests which can be served by left-politics.