Seriously. I don’t know if it’s because it’s the summer but these breadtube kids are popping up everywhere these last few weeks.

And they consistently have ignorant, bad takes to share. They don’t understand anything about everything but think that because they’ve watched some guy yell at his screen for a few hours they’re suddenly

They’re people who don’t want to read theory because it’s boring (I think it requires time but it’s very interesting, just needs some motivation to get started) but they will happily watch 3 hours long debates that turn into random shit halfway through.

I don’t mean to rant but I’ve just had a Destiny stan tell me “holocaust denialism on the left” for not believing the uyghur thing. Destiny despises communists and anarchists, the latter of which that person identifies as. They don’t understand what holocaust denialism even is, they don’t understand how people could come to different conclusions than them, they literally just want to feel superior because they’re pure and we’re not, somehow.

They think this will score them points with libertarians and neolibs (and maybe even fascists, as they don’t even understand fascism), by pushing under the bus the only other people who are tangentially related to them. But the libertarians don’t give a shit. They’ll line up anarchists against the wall all the same. We’re all godless commies to them, it doesn’t matter your specific brand.

When was the last time an anarchist called you a Marxist-Leninist? They just say tankie now, as if it had any useful meaning (everyone has their own definition). It’s clear that they they acquired this word through memetic usage and don’t even know what it means. In some cases, I kid you not, people will say tankie but then ask “What’s ML mean?”.

Breadtube was a mistake, cancel that whole shit and get people back in books. Or at least watching important people, not some random bloke from a big city who started a youtube channel.

^ if it’s not high-effort or serious enough for c/communism please tell me where to repost, I’m not sure where else it can fit. Maybe my own c/comradelyrants lol but it’s dead :(

  • @queer_bird
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    234 years ago

    Breadtube, DSA, Bernie Sander, AOC. All of there far from proper socialism, but they do a lot of good work radicalizing liberals. I first learned of Mao and Lenin not being the devil at DSA from some of the tankier members. Even if Breadtubers are Libs, surely they are less unsufferable then if they had remained Hillary Clinton fans or whatever.

  • @FireAxel
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    204 years ago

    Destiny is a bad example cause he isn’t really breadtube or a leftist. He’s a self-described neoliberal.

    And I disagree, you need YouTubers and internet personalities for this shit. You’ll never get a big percentage of the population to your side by just them “reading theory.” That’s one of the reasons the right has been so successful online, they had a bunch of content creators just pushing people into that fascist pipeline, while leftist had just books for the longest time.

    Sure, not all of them are ML communists, but I still think having more normie socialists is better than just having a bunch of nazis online.

    Like, I started as a simple dem-soc who liked Bernie and occasionally watched Destiny debate Nazis and shit, then eventually I grew out of that, started getting exposed to some more radical lefty views and started following some actual lefty content creators, etc. And eventually, I came to where I am now – very unlikely to happen if someone just said “read a book” to me.

    You can’t relly on just books in this day and age.

    • @TeethOrCoat
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      204 years ago

      You can’t rely on just books in this day and age.

      Correct. Capitalism is highly adaptable and as such we require a diversity of tactics. I should know, because I wasn’t introduced to ML via reading books, but by long form ML arguments on relevant topics (usually on a country targeted by US imperialism) and relentless, fiery take-downs of evidence free narratives. Before that, I was introduced to Marxism proper via Abby Martin’s interview with Richard Wolff.

      Then again, I consider myself somewhat lucky to have started on that particular video rather than the rest of breadtube. Once I got a taste of Marxism, my consciousness expanded tenfold. All the usual lib nonsense, like the contradiction of being told that you get paid more due to hard work, I no longer had to bother with.

    • @SovietIntl
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      4 years ago

      Right, I supported Vaush for a while until I started to read a lot and have since only supported Vaush as the necessary opposition to the radicalized right kids today because of the over saturation of the “anti sjw” crap you always see, as well as the political apathy of major youtubers who “don’t want politics in games”. I’m not afraid of the millennial generation I belong to because I know a lot of them are left leaning but the next generation is more at risk of apolitical apathy than right wing radicalization. As Kreia once said “apathy is death”.

      • @TeethOrCoat
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        64 years ago

        I get the sentiment, but did you just quote a fictional sith lord on this discussion?

        • @veganarkiddie
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          34 years ago

          Nah I’m pretty sure sith are real. Don’t listen to the crypto-jedi “Star Wars is fictional” propaganda.

          • @TeethOrCoat
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            34 years ago

            Painting your face red and attaching plastic tendrils to it while pretending to rule over an empire does not prove sith are real.

  • @ferjurx
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    4 years ago

    When was the last time an anarchist called you a Marxist-Leninist? They just say tankie now

    Sometimes, they proceed to tell you how they are different terms.

    - Nah bro, I’m not talking about MLs, I only talk about tankies.
    - What’s the difference?
    - proceeds to give a ridiculous definition that isn’t applicable to anyone.

    Btw, the word tankie is starting to cringe me ngl.

    • Muad'DibberMA
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      134 years ago

      Its even used by monarchists and neo-conservatives now. Thanks anarchists for completely missing the class analysis of why tanks were and continue to be 100% necessary to defend AES.

      • @ilyinichna
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        114 years ago

        It’s so absurd. Like, it’s a term that came from these same types mocking supporters of the Soviet intervention in Hungary in 1956. You know, a “”“popular”“” uprising where fascists and capitalists supported by the US took legitimate unrest and tried to use it to spark a color revolution. With Hong Kong and Uyghur genocide, as bullshit and thoroughly debunked as they are even now, at least there’s some element of doubt in that they’re very recent and ongoing? But just look at Hungary now and tell me that shit in 1956 wasn’t completely justified.

        And yet they still use that word in the exact same way. Fuckin idealism.

        • @SovietIntl
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          124 years ago

          It’s only okay to suppress fascists unless they’re in full blown Nazi uniforms it seems. Isn’t Nazi memorabilia and openly being a Nazi illegal in some west European countries? And yet in America it’s totally freedom to have Nazis walk around armed and even its illegal for the people in the states to retaliate against them? I think I know who were the true heroes of ww2, and they certainly weren’t on the capitalists side. Fascism did win in the end, they just had a bigger dollar sign and a more “nicer face”, and only now are those cowards back in the light with the rise of populism. The solution to the unchecked Nazi problem is just as it’s always been, Communists to bring down the iron boot of the proletariat.

  • @SovietIntl
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    174 years ago

    I know some of you comrades may be more diplomatic and more patient than I but I have made it my personal business to not engage with fascists and certain liberals who call themselves “centrists”. I’m not exactly a people person and am better at engaging with a person one to one but engaging with say 2 or 3 fascists without wanting to kick their faces in? I don’t know how those debate folks do it. Doesn’t make me a good propagandist by not engaging in large scale work but I don’t find debates with the other side engaging, personally would rather argue with libertarian socialists and so called anarchists because I feel it would be more productive. But more power to you more level headed comrades.

  • @calmlamp
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    4 years ago

    YouTube is just a way for content creators to dance for pennies from advertisers, and BreadTube is no different. It makes a lot of sense when you realize any breadtuber is chasing views for ad revenue and therefore becomes obligated to toe certain lines dictated by bourgeois standards of respectability. If nothing else, they have to cater to popular prejudices to keep their views up. These prejudices are by and large dictated by capitalist norms and reinforced through propaganda, schooling, etc.

    • Iskender
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      4 years ago

      deleted by creator

    • @veganarkiddie
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      34 years ago

      Well they don’t all run ads. For those that do run ads, it is a good point tho.

  • @TheUltimateLemon
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    124 years ago

    Breadtube can be super useful for making people comfortable to leftist ideas but yeah it can’t be the only thing out there which is why I am glad there are a bunch of communist channels.

  • Iskender
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    4 years ago

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    • @TeethOrCoat
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      64 years ago

      You are absolutely correct in saying that they will “happily watch 3 hours long debates that turn into random shit halfway through” over the “boring” reads of Marxist-Leninist philosophy.

      I actually don’t mind this. The problem I have with people watching long vids are that they’re not watching the correct long vids. I’d happily take one and a half hours of my time to watch an interview revleft or media roots does with Ian Goodrum on the PRC. I’d happily take that time to watch the Understanding Marxism lecture Wolff did last year which, I’ll be honest, was the best damn thing I’ve heard from him. I don’t know how people sit through those online debates without getting a headache.

      • Iskender
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        4 years ago

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        • @TeethOrCoat
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          64 years ago

          So the question here is why flock to Vaush instead of the anti-imperialist Empire Files or Media Roots or Grayzone?

          • @ImARabbit
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            44 years ago

            Those things aren’t comparable. People want to listen to or watch something entertaining, something they can laugh out loud to. Marx Madness is a good podcast along those lines and if there was a YouTuber with a similar energy they might do well.

            • @TeethOrCoat
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              4 years ago

              Eh, with the exception of hbomberguy, I’ve never found any of them particularly funny or entertaining. Seeing how nonsensical imperialist media and capitalist society however does amuse me somewhat so I’m drawn to those types of content.

              Hell, if I wanted to be entertained, I’d get a movie or something. Why would I sit there for 2 hours watching some western chauvinist rant about whatever country the CIA is targeting next?

              • @ImARabbit
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                14 years ago

                Thought Slime is definitely funny and contapoints is funny and entertaining.

                • @TeethOrCoat
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                  54 years ago

                  Watching a worse than useless warmongering radlib may be funny to you but as a person who takes US imperialism deathly seriously, I do not share your amusement and appreciation for these types of content creators.

          • Iskender
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            4 years ago

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            • @TeethOrCoat
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              34 years ago

              Do you believe we should insert ourselves in that culture? Participate more in those spaces? Be a “gamer or nerd” Marxist-Leninist?

              • Iskender
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                4 years ago

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                • @TeethOrCoat
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                  44 years ago

                  I feel like for many ML folks, this seems like a petty bourgeois affectation and hence something not worth doing. I’m not even sure if it’ll take hold even if you do it since there’s no guarantee anyone will even watch you. More likely, you’ll just be ignored by the algorithms.

                  Even now, since we’re mentioning it, I can’t imagine what an ML-ran gaming channel would look and sound like.

  • @TeethOrCoat
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    74 years ago

    Even if somehow we all agreed to cancel breadtube, how would we go about doing that exactly? Do you feel you’ll find more success cancelling breadtube than you would trying to persuade the viewers directly?

    Look, I get that people need to vent and use ranting as an outlet. Here’s the problem though, and it extends to every facet of revolutionary work: How do you turn your ideals into reality?

  • @some_random_commie
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    24 years ago

    There isn’t going to be a communist revolution in any advanced capitalist country anytime soon, so it doesn’t really matter that a bunch of anarchist children haven’t yet dropped their edgy ideological fashion accessories for mainstream liberalism yet. You’re better off attempting to steer them into an analysis of the imperialist labor bureaucracy, and then the serious ones will immediately understand why Marxism-Leninism attracted millions and anarchism attracts stupid white kids.