Slums were not uncommon in Chinese cities a few decades ago, from the precarious working class districts of 1930s Shanghai to the shanty towns of British-occupied Hong Kong in the 1950s onwards. How did China manage to develop in a way that decreased mass housing precarity? What are the structural reasons behind it?
One thing I wonder about is what the middle class lifestyle is like in a place like China.
In India for example even within the middle class (a nondescript classification) there is a ton of variation. Over the last two decades there has been a rise in prominence of gated societies. A huge part of this lifestyle is having the most disadvantaged people perform manual tasks like cooking, cleaning, childcare for the middle class. In important ways the middle class lifestyle is sustained by the desperation of the most poor people.
It looks like the dynamics in China are pretty different. For one, practically everyone owns housing which tends to be one of the biggest expenses. I saw a stat a little while back that 90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. This alone goes a long way preventing the kind of exploitation we see in most places.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been there, but i live there now for about a decade.
a lot of people own a house by default. at some point all the houses where people live were somehow given to them. then the values sky rocketed, or where their building got developed and the developer paid them out.
so families brought more than one house or prepared money for their kids to get a house, and the property market continued to grow.
On top of this, Chinese are more accustomed to living in what could be called extremely efficient housing. small apartments in big apartment blocks with 99% of what they need in life 10 minutes walk away.
I grew up in USSR, and it was a similar setup. Most people lived in big apartment blocks that were structured into microdistricts with all the necessities being within walking distance. I personally really liked that arrangement. It’s a really convenient way to live.
In my original comment I wasn’t wondering about the home ownership status of the middle class but rather what their lifestyle is life. As I mentioned earlier, in India most houses employ poor people to do their housework for them. Arrangements like this are founded on and upheld by grotesque levels of ineqality where the most poor people have no chance at education and upward mobility and have to resort to doing grunt work for others. It is a terrible system that has led to the rise in prevalence of apartheid style gated societies.
wealthy people employ an “ayi” to do house work or in some cases a “baomu” to be a nanny.
This is not popular for the money conscience middle class. they will hire a cleaner maybe a few days a month if they feel they can’t keep up, but a baomu is more for the upper classes and yeh, can be gross just like you can imagine.
I am foreign worker. and a single guy who travels a lot. so many times in my life I hired an ayi to come to my apartment and do cleaning maybe twice a week.
my last full time ayi, could barely read, her daughter had just left university and was working as a paralegal… would she retire because her daughter could afford to take care of her ? no way in he’ll, the culture doesn’t allow that until she’s too old to work.
The local government quoted saying “钱多了，自然要还富于民。” “With more money, of course it will go back to the people”.
But no, liberals know best because this is obviously sisipee encouraging more birth rates because one child policy genocide causing a demographic collapse!!11
The narrative that no matter how bad things get in the west, it’s worse everywhere else is a key aspect of western propaganda. That’s what keeps people believing in the system and discourages them from exploring alternative options.
I do wonder how much longer that will last though, eventually, it will be impossible to pull the wool over the people’s eyes. I feel like when that happens, the narrative will shift from “They are worse than us” to “They are the reason things are bad.”
I think we’re already starting to see the narrative starting to fail. Most young people are completely disillusioned about capitalism at this point, and it’s only a matter of time before most people start questioning the narrative about China. Once you realize that everything else you’re told is a lie, then it’s not a big leap to realize that maybe what you’re told about China is also false.
Indeed, though I don’t know if I could be considered a “young” person, watching the Hong Kong protests was a big moment of self awareness for me, as everything the west was saying about them were outright lies. It made me question everything else they say too.
I don’t know how common this will be in the future though, a lot of people would rather be on the simple, easy to understand “good guy team” rather than spending time and energy examining more complex geopolitical propaganda. A lot of young people who do become socialists tend to fall into Ultra territory, parroting the same lib ideas about China, just replacing the “They are bad because they are communist” with “They are bad because they are capitalist.” It’s quick, easy and dirty, and gets people that rush of feeling like they are “right” and “superior” which is desperately needed in a society that constantly picks away at people’s self-esteem.
Hopefully I’m wrong though, I have met many “I don’t talk about politics” sort of liberals having surprisingly positive views of China, even with some of the most rabid anti-China propaganda in the world being pushed onto our country.
I think the key factor will be the loss of faith in the system. At that point people start having the whole “are we the baddies” moment of self awareness. There will be a lot of turbulence politically, but that’s where communists have to step up and do the work to educate people and steer them in the right direction. Things could absolutely go in into a dark place in the west, but ultimately all we can do is try our best to make sure they don’t and we have to keep at least some optimism that better things are possible.
It feels like apartheid too. The boundaries keep the “filthy poors” outside but since their labour is required by the residents, they can get in via security checkpoints.
One thing I wonder about is what the middle class lifestyle is like in a place like China.
In India for example even within the middle class (a nondescript classification) there is a ton of variation. Over the last two decades there has been a rise in prominence of gated societies. A huge part of this lifestyle is having the most disadvantaged people perform manual tasks like cooking, cleaning, childcare for the middle class. In important ways the middle class lifestyle is sustained by the desperation of the most poor people.
It looks like the dynamics in China are pretty different. For one, practically everyone owns housing which tends to be one of the biggest expenses. I saw a stat a little while back that 90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. This alone goes a long way preventing the kind of exploitation we see in most places.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been there, but i live there now for about a decade.
a lot of people own a house by default. at some point all the houses where people live were somehow given to them. then the values sky rocketed, or where their building got developed and the developer paid them out.
so families brought more than one house or prepared money for their kids to get a house, and the property market continued to grow.
On top of this, Chinese are more accustomed to living in what could be called extremely efficient housing. small apartments in big apartment blocks with 99% of what they need in life 10 minutes walk away.
I grew up in USSR, and it was a similar setup. Most people lived in big apartment blocks that were structured into microdistricts with all the necessities being within walking distance. I personally really liked that arrangement. It’s a really convenient way to live.
In my original comment I wasn’t wondering about the home ownership status of the middle class but rather what their lifestyle is life. As I mentioned earlier, in India most houses employ poor people to do their housework for them. Arrangements like this are founded on and upheld by grotesque levels of ineqality where the most poor people have no chance at education and upward mobility and have to resort to doing grunt work for others. It is a terrible system that has led to the rise in prevalence of apartheid style gated societies.
wealthy people employ an “ayi” to do house work or in some cases a “baomu” to be a nanny.
This is not popular for the money conscience middle class. they will hire a cleaner maybe a few days a month if they feel they can’t keep up, but a baomu is more for the upper classes and yeh, can be gross just like you can imagine.
I am foreign worker. and a single guy who travels a lot. so many times in my life I hired an ayi to come to my apartment and do cleaning maybe twice a week.
my last full time ayi, could barely read, her daughter had just left university and was working as a paralegal… would she retire because her daughter could afford to take care of her ? no way in he’ll, the culture doesn’t allow that until she’s too old to work.
Thanks
it is similar in Sri Lanka as well
From what I understand, this is also the way things work in Cuba.
There were even cases in places like Linyi giving away homes for free to some young couples.
The local government quoted saying “钱多了，自然要还富于民。” “With more money, of course it will go back to the people”.
But no, liberals know best because this is obviously sisipee encouraging more birth rates because one child policy genocide causing a demographic collapse!!11
The narrative that no matter how bad things get in the west, it’s worse everywhere else is a key aspect of western propaganda. That’s what keeps people believing in the system and discourages them from exploring alternative options.
I do wonder how much longer that will last though, eventually, it will be impossible to pull the wool over the people’s eyes. I feel like when that happens, the narrative will shift from “They are worse than us” to “They are the reason things are bad.”
I think we’re already starting to see the narrative starting to fail. Most young people are completely disillusioned about capitalism at this point, and it’s only a matter of time before most people start questioning the narrative about China. Once you realize that everything else you’re told is a lie, then it’s not a big leap to realize that maybe what you’re told about China is also false.
Indeed, though I don’t know if I could be considered a “young” person, watching the Hong Kong protests was a big moment of self awareness for me, as everything the west was saying about them were outright lies. It made me question everything else they say too.
I don’t know how common this will be in the future though, a lot of people would rather be on the simple, easy to understand “good guy team” rather than spending time and energy examining more complex geopolitical propaganda. A lot of young people who do become socialists tend to fall into Ultra territory, parroting the same lib ideas about China, just replacing the “They are bad because they are communist” with “They are bad because they are capitalist.” It’s quick, easy and dirty, and gets people that rush of feeling like they are “right” and “superior” which is desperately needed in a society that constantly picks away at people’s self-esteem.
Hopefully I’m wrong though, I have met many “I don’t talk about politics” sort of liberals having surprisingly positive views of China, even with some of the most rabid anti-China propaganda in the world being pushed onto our country.
I think the key factor will be the loss of faith in the system. At that point people start having the whole “are we the baddies” moment of self awareness. There will be a lot of turbulence politically, but that’s where communists have to step up and do the work to educate people and steer them in the right direction. Things could absolutely go in into a dark place in the west, but ultimately all we can do is try our best to make sure they don’t and we have to keep at least some optimism that better things are possible.
Gated communities being so normalized blows my mind, they are so common in Mexico now. It’s so dystopian on my eyes.
It feels like apartheid too. The boundaries keep the “filthy poors” outside but since their labour is required by the residents, they can get in via security checkpoints.
Wealth gap in India is depressing, so many middle class families have at least at least one laborer who is often paid 3,000INR a month (About 38 USD).