Some 70 Ukrainian terrorists have been eliminated. According to the latest data, no civilians have been killed as a result of the sabotage group’s actions and 12 people were injured. An elderly woman died during evacuation.
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So this is the “Belogorad People’s Council” certain sections of the anarchist internet have been yapping about.
Ah so that’s what happened lol, saw some Chinese liberals posting videos of these guys declaring war on Putin and claiming that Russia would soon collapse and even comparing them to the October revolution. When asked how these terrorists attacking civilians even compares to the revolution, they simply reply with “well that’s a small price to pay for freedom”.
Is there a large proportion of liberals in China? Pro-Ukraine or in general?
Our family’s from one of the most liberal cities in the country so our perception might be a little skewed. There are liberal friendly elements in the party and a noticeable number of them are embedded in education and smaller media too.
Not ruling out the amount of foreign trolls, they generally try to evoke nationalism with the “Russia invaded us before too, never forget” and drum up support for Ukraine and calling it a true “people’s war”. There are also those who have family in or from Ukraine (marriages or businesses) so they would more likely sway towards that way.
The internet is a very mixed bag too with many large platforms having a lot of pro-US/Japan users masquerading most of their ideology behind supporting ‘innocent Ukraine against imperialism’ while conveniently omitting info that happened in the past 8-9 years. Ukraine and the PRC had pretty amicable relations prior to the maidan and these people will present the puppet version of Ukraine today as the friendly one prior to 2014.
From some of our own circle of family and friends it usually ranges like this:
Born before 1940s, ML leaning - generally supports Russia/DPRK/Cuba/Syria/Palestine against imperialists. The ones in our family participated in supporting the DPRK in the 1950s so they tend to see the USSR more fondly despite the split in the 60s.
Born around 1950s-1970s - most old school liberals come from this generation, the nationalist types want Russia and the west to destroy each other, the liberals tend to worship the US version of events.
Born after 1980s - most from our circle are more apolitical so the usual view is sympathy for the people of Ukraine while also understanding Russia being backed into a corner.
Those fucks who attacked the Belgorod oblast are the literal ideological successors of the Vlasovites, one of the main opponents of the USSR and socialism. Idiocy.
What in the actual fuck convinced these guys this was a good idea? I get why the UAF might’ve pushed this, but why would you, as a group of individual paramilitaries, go along with this? Like what could possibly be achieved by this except suicide by Krasnopol?
They needed a distraction from the huge defeat they suffered at Bakhmut.
I did notice an influx of “The Ukrainians have invaded Russia” clickbait out there. Complete with action hero one liners about how they need to have a fake referendu, because that’s totally what people say during war.
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Yes, but why would any one of the actual guys that participated in this be cool to die for a media distraction? I get why upper echelons of the military wanted this. But it’s baffling to me how the guys on the ground went with it. Even if you’re some fanatical nazi pos, would you want to die for a pointless media stunt?
Well it has arguably shown issues with Russian border defences. Defences, that were supposedly upgraded and enhanced last year
Not sure what issues you mean. As far as i can tell this was dealt with very professionally. It was cleaned up within 24 hours. Or did you expect Russian troops to be lined up along the physical border in trenches or bunkers or whatnot and trying to stop the Ukrainians from entering a single meter past the border? That’s not how you defend a border this long.
For illustration purposes:
It’s the difference between a Great Wall of China and a Roman Limes type of border defense. One is brittle the other is elastic. The latter allows you to be much more efficient with less resources, to preserve your own manpower since they are out of range of the enemy until the actual attack, and to maximize enemy casualties as you draw them into a cauldron.
This article gives a good summary of what happened: https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-52423-uas-desperate-belgorod
Obviously not. I understand that the border is just too long to be entirely picketed. But I did expect this to be foreseen and adjusted for - i.e. that the main potential vectors would be mapped and appropriately controlled (infrared sensors or whatnot. We’re in the XXI century, not Roman empire). Most importantly, I expected the enemy to be detected before they stated shelling civilians. This time it was a relatively small group (with two tanks). Tomorrow it might be those 14 leopards Germany sent, with some chemical weapons on top (remember that AFU is actively using those). Perhaps it is idealistic of me, believing such matters to be simple. But there’s been mentions in the news that this particular area was supposed to be reinforced, quite expensively too. And the Ministry of defense main job is, well, defense. It’s bad enough that AFU can shell civilians within Russian border seemingly with no comeuppance, but now they can roll a tank in? I’m old enough to remember when terrorists in Caucasus would pull similar stunts, attacking towns. They did so with apparently less support from other countries. You’d think our generals would have studied those lessons.
I think part of the problem and what creates these unrealistic expectations of invincibility is paradoxically the fact that Russian forces have been so incredibly effective and overwhelmingly dominating the Ukrainians on the battlefield. And it’s true that the level of military power is disproportionate but it’s not that disproportionate in a historical context. When the US engaged in its wars its enemies were way weaker relative to them than Ukraine is to Russia. And they have the huge advantage of waging war from across an entire ocean so their actual territory is protected.
And yet they still got 9/11’d. And during their invasion of Iraq there were instances when Iraqi forces managed to penetrate much deeper into the invading alliance forces’ lines, and they did it with worse equipment, far worse intel, and with their enemy having complete, oppressive dominance of the skies.
I sometimes try to imagine how these same Russians who are today getting so hysterical over every little Russian misstep, over every perceived loss, over every retreat of their own forces and every attack by the enemy on Russia itself would have reacted if they were alive during the Great Patriotic War. Hell, even during the German bombings of London after it had already become clear that they were going to lose the war. If the panic mongers and the doomers had been allowed to be as free as they are in today’s Russia it would have been mass hysteria. That alone shows you how much of a mountain is being made of a molehill here.
And i am not in the slightest discounting the harm, injury and tragic loss of life to civilians that these terrorist attacks cause. All of that is awful, and all efforts should be made to mitigate that. And i also know it’s easy for me to say this living in a country that is not engaged in a war with a terrorist, fascist regime (unfortunately we are aiding said regime which is truly sickening…), but if you want to win wars you need to think rationally and not emotionally.
If even the terrorists in the Caucasus with much less help, much less equipment, and without the intel and recon capabilities of NATO behind them could pull off stunts like this what makes you expect that Ukraine cannot? At some point you just have to be realistic and not expect the Russian armed forces to perform miracles. The correct response is what matters when perfect prevention is not possible. As for what the Russian media claims, a lot of it is sensationalist. After all, they have an interest in generating controversy and getting clicks/viewers. Picking up on the smallest oversights or mistakes and exaggerating them into big blunders creates outrage, which is good for ratings and is to be expected.
Anyway, it is virtually impossible even with modern technology to completely prevent all physical penetration of front lines that are this long. What deters the enemy is the certainty of failure and massive casualties. If someone is truly suicidal they will always find ways to cause chaos and do harm, but at least they can only do so once. In situations when they are desperate for a morale boost the Ukrainian leadership may be willing to make such sacrifices, but this is not a viable long term strategy, performing PR stunts to “humiliate” Russia and harm a few civilians at the cost of precious equipment and trained manpower that they are already struggling to replace.
The main job of the Russian military is to defeat the enemy. These sorts of actions by the Ukrainians are ultimately self-defeating. They are also not exactly swimming in munitions at this point and as horrible and cynical as it sounds, in the military calculus every shell expended on civilian targets is one less shell used to degrade the opponent’s military potential, to attack or defend against the actual enemy army. Terrorism is simply counterproductive, it may be politically beneficial for Ukraine and embarrassing for Russia, but militarily it is useless, provided it does not provoke the enemy into doing something stupid.
Why would anyone be willing to get themselves killed for that though is what baffles me. Like in their last moments on this earth, shells crashing around them, were these guys thinking “I gloriously died showing some issues with Russian border defence. I fulfilled my fate”? It’s such a nonsensical way to throw away your life. At least go die defending some trench or assaulting a village or whatever, even if it turns out to be a suicide mission too. There’s some heroism and purpose in that. This stunt was none of that. It’s just nothing but pointless and dumb.
Good question. I don’t know. Either it was copious amounts of propaganda and outright lies, but even then I’m not sure what they expected to accomplish. Perhaps they thought they could attack and retreat back, kinda like the North Caucasus militants did back in the day.
Or maybe it’s drugs. There’s been rumours regarding the boatmen who were attempting to attack Zaporozhye plant. Supposedly they were just firing in front of themselves, glass eyed
The Western European diaspora Liberals had been disguising fake news as objective facts even in school textbooks so the thugs would think that they have support from Western European diaspora to make reputational threat from slanders as deterent against Russians. Like other anti-Communist groups, they can use the Western Caucasian fake news to frame their terrorism as the terrorism of their victim or as divine punishment against bad people for unproven crimes. If they get attacked, then they can pretend to be innocent people or people who face punishment for their ‘holy’ watch hunting toxic behaviors.