[Transcript]
Help me settle an argument. Was Hitler left wing or right wing?
Extremely far right regarding nationalism (obv), but very far left regarding socialism
So far left regarding socialism that he banned trade unions and killed all the socialists.
Yeah, doesn’t seem like the supported socialists very much. To be fair, the socialists he killed were his competition…
(Source.)
First off, holy hell! I didn’t know that antisocialists were still arguing this! Apparently I was so absorbed in more important things like historical research and Twitch streams that I overlooked it.
As for Musk’s contentless crap… well, if you want to know why I now rarely respond directly to antisocialist apologetics, this is a perfect example.
When you spend time reading essays and books by serious researchers, such as Stephen G. Gross’s Export Empire: German Soft Power in Southeastern Europe, 1890–1945, the history is absolutely colorful with wide backgrounds, decades of contexts, and fascinating examples—to say nothing of the scores of citations that one could read.
And then you turn around and the contrast hits you immediately when you look at antisocialist apologetics: their arguments are murder to read and refute over and over again; so bland, shallow, and incoherent. Believe me, these antisocialists would probably agree that burning down somebody’s businesses and using state intervention to protect them are both tantamount to socialism!
They lazily trivialize Fascism’s fiercest opposition [read: the lower classes] as ‘competition’, consistently overlook Fascism’s obscurer victims like the Ethiopians and the Roma, ignore the significance of capital and wage labor under Fascism, dismiss collaborative businessmen as either coerced or ‘socialists’, always(?) defend Finland during WWII, hardly ever mention let alone discuss any of Fascism’s more technical aspects… and yet, many of them still want to be taken seriously as ‘antifascists’. Yeah, right.
The thing is, the people who always emphasize this misnomer never provide evidence that the German Fascists chose it because they shared the same useless redefinitions as modern antisocialists do. They just quietly assume that the German Fascists must have chosen it because they must have also redefined socialism as state intervention in the economy. It is a non sequitur that almost nobody ever thinks about.
I guess we know what kind of “socialist” Elon is.
It’s infuriating how stupid he is.
No way he actually said this. You’re joking right?
This tweet is real. I don’t have a link but I saw it in flesh when it was made.
I just realized this tweet was made in 2018. Nearly 6 years ago.
I’m starting to feel old.
Elon comes out against socdems
elon musk understanding of socialism is “socialism is when the state does stuff”
Everything is socialism.
Made worse by the fact that he, at least at one point, considered himself a “socialist”.
Probably the “national” kind
Isn’t it socialism when he takes government subsidies to do anything?
Yes thats why he calls himself a socialist, under his understanding of socialism he is correct.
Liberals just can’t seem to understand that “left” and “right” are only shorthands to describe similar packages of political ideologies. Instead, they view it as some sort of universal objective constant.
This is like some dumb ass on a spaceship talking about going “up” or “down”.
They tend to try and define it as more government versus left government, which is already a liberal brained idea of how any society works. They believe in abstract motions of power, rather than genuine material power. They believe this because they can’t fathom being controlled by someone else, they can only imagine being told or shown certain things. They can only imagine different aesthetics and manners.
Bro is literally just trying to piss everyone off by purpose at this point
My brain just melted
Wdym he pisses off everybody? He pisses off ONLY actual progressives mostly (anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist, anti-reaction)
He’s an asshole like that…
Logging onto x dot com to settle an argument by asking the resident racist billionaire
Also I wonder why the socialists were in competition with the Nazis hmmmm
Also I wonder why the socialists were in competition with the Nazis hmmmm
“It was all leftist infighting, we all know what the word “n*zi” is short for” 🤡
the overton window and its consequences have been a disaster for human critical thinking
obv
The Nazis were not socialists. Their entire goal was to latch onto a popular political movement and redefine it to fit their needs(as all fascists typically do).
They did not support worker ownership of the means of production and the right for workers to work for themselves. Hitler repealed legislation that nationalized industry in Germany, and oversaw the expansion of private industry. The first modern implementation of privatization on a grand scale took place under the supervision of the Nazis. The word “privatization” was coined to describe a central tenet of Nazi economic policy. The Nazis raided and imprisoned union leaders and broke up trade unions. They repealed worker rights.
Behold Hitler’s own words:
“There are only two possibilities in Germany; do not imagine that the people will forever go with the middle party, the party of compromises; one day it will turn to those who have most consistently foretold the coming ruin and have sought to dissociate themselves from it. And that party is either the Left: and then God help us! for it will lead us to complete destruction - to Bolshevism, or else it is a party of the Right which at the last, when the people is in utter despair, when it has lost all its spirit and has no longer any faith in anything, is determined for its part ruthlessly to seize the reins of power - that is the beginning of resistance of which I spoke a few minutes ago.”
—Hitler explaining that he vehemently opposes the Left, and believes only Rightists like himself can make Germany great again.
“Our adopted term ‘Socialist’ has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true socialism is not.”
—Hitler literally admitting his “socialism” is a whole new thing and has nothing to do with the usual definition of the word.
“The ideology that dominates us is in diametrical contradiction to that of Soviet Russia. National Socialism is a doctrine that has reference exclusively to the German people. Bolshevism lays stress on international mission. We National Socialists believe a man can, in the long run, be happy only among his own people.”
—Hitler trying so hard to explain that he isn’t a socialist, that he opposes socialism, and that the term National Socialist is something he made up and only has meaning within the context of its own paradigm.
“We National Socialists see in private property a higher level of human economic development that according to the differences in performance controls the management of what has been accomplished enabling and guaranteeing the advantage of a higher standard of living for everyone. Bolshevism destroys not only private property but also private initiative and the readiness to shoulder responsibility.”
—Hitler spelling it out in very clear terms that he wholeheartedly supports private ownership of property, i.e. capitalism, and opposes worker ownership of property, which he calls “Bolshevism”, i.e. real, actual socialism.
“What right do these people have to demand a share of property or even in administration?.. The employer who accepts the responsibility for production also gives the workpeople their means of livelihood. Our greatest industrialists are not concerned with the acquisition of wealth or with good living, but, above all else, with responsibility and power. They have worked their way to the top by their own abilities, and this proof of their capacity – a capacity only displayed by a higher race – gives them the right to lead.”
—Hitler attacking the notion of worker ownership of property and licking capitalist boot.
where are these quotes from?
the whole comment I lifted from reddit but it has been lost to the sands of subreddit banning
the Hitler quotes themselves can be found via search, the two that I looked up were from speeches
the “two possibilities” one is from a Hitler speech of April 1921 https://web.viu.ca/davies/H479B.Imperialism.Nationalism/Hitler.speech.April1921.htm
the “ideology that dominates us” one is from a Hitler speech of May 1935 https://comicism.tripod.com/350521.html
cool, thanks for getting back, was an interesting post
extremely dumb argument that the nazis weren’t socialist because they took independent labour organizations and put then all together under one national organization. literally every communist government did the exact same thing along with many other countries like south korea and taiwan to egypt and syria. get better arguments please
do you mean to say military dictatorship south korea, kuomingtang taiwan, nasserist egypt, and assadist syria are all fascist?
Well, uh, for the first 2, yes (they’re literally comprador nations aligned to the west, it wouldn’t be surprising), but for the last 2, more than likely no
No… I am saying that equating the Bolsheviki’s unification of the trade unions with the Fascists’ replacement of them with an apologetics organization is a false equivalence because the trade unions in the people’s republics served (and still serve) the working masses, whereas the trade unions under Fascism worked to convince proletarians that they were wrong and their bosses were right.
I think that it’s an exaggeration to categorize South Korea and Kuomintang Taiwan as fascist, but I don’t lecture anybody for making that call either given that they’re still anticommunist régimes whose job is to oppress us. As for Egypt and Syria, I don’t know enough about them to comment.
