I was intending to start an communist organization masked as a normal company (communism is illegal in my country), my first goal to give workers a good working environment, and to pay them as high as I could.

At this time I’m still a student, so I asked my sister for funding. I told her that I want a different world that I live in currently, this didn’t affect me as I was well provided for which allows me to work independently as a writer. but there is still poverty and unemployment in the country, I constantly see poor people in the slums of the city. even worse, the pollution and lack of nutrition made everyone look unhealthy.

She have stated that she was a capitalist. but she’s my family, she always say that whatever I’m doing she would support it.

Well… she rejected my request, told me that she believes that I would “Destroy” her world I think she meant her own objective would fail, that it doesn’t make sense for her to support the opposing side.

not going to the details but so far she given me budget for my own projects. and she’s willing to give me more.

I’ve created alot of enemies now. My sister and I shared ideas for the better world. as eco-environmentalists. I realized that what we agreed on, supporting eachother no matter what doesn’t apply when the goal is socialism and when you’re a communist.

I also realized also that, her whole current objective, her products wasn’t anything eco-friendly. as a socialist now, I see that it was money all along. at least she told me she was going to do good after she’s done getting all the assets she needs, but I feel like there was no end to it. Though, I hope she stand by her own words.

So the question stands. in our capitalist world, should the proletariat be funded by the bourgeoisie?

  • @CriticalResist8A
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    3 years ago

    Here you have met class interests and how they relate to our daily struggles. Your sister seems to have bourgeois interests, and like any bourgeois she would be a fool to fund the revolution that will seek to depose her. She may not see it that way – many bourgeois don’t – but ultimately this is what it is: giving money to transition away from capitalism, which would destroy all their privileges in the process. Though with regards to ecology under capitalism specifically (and “green” companies), I believe there capitalists understand that what they do actually contributes to the problem and doesn’t solve anything. I don’t believe for a second that after 5 years as a green startup offering whatever gimmick to solve climate change and seeing no result in the world, that they still believe they can actually do anything about it. But hey, it brings in money. That’s one thing they do well.

    Likewise we would be fools, as proletarians, to fund the bourgeoisie that oppresses us. But the difference here is that the bourgeois have the upper hand and are allowed (and even encouraged) to oppress us, whereas we are not allowed to oppress them.

    If capitalists will not let us transition away from them, then they will make it so capitalism cannot be reformed away from capitalism either – it’s a system, everything has its place in it. You’ve found yourself against the second hurdle of socialism: the bourgeoisie will not let us play on our terms. Coops are good, but they still exploit labour (not all workers in a coop are partners, they still depend on exploited labour in their chain of production and daily life).

    The only solution is revolution. I understand your frustration at not being able to change things right now when they’re plain to see – ending homelessness, ending hunger in your country would be really easy if we took the money from capitalists. And as you said you can see people who have nothing and have to struggle for survival on the daily, while you also see rich pigs for whom life is trivial. But strategically, the best thing you can do is join a revolutionary communist party. Historically speaking this is what has achieved change. For example, many organisations focus on “mutual aid” (which is a term, it seems, many of these organisations use but don’t understand). But mutual aid does not dismantle the systematic causes that create these issues, they only solve the symptoms where they see them. But who has erased child hunger? Food not bombs, or the Bolsheviks?

    Communism is illegal in your country, but you should check what exactly is illegal. Communist parties were banned in many countries before and during the Cold War, but in many places also this could be subverted by simply calling the party something else. You may be able to create a communist party, or maybe there is one already under a different name.

    • @EvelynOP
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      33 years ago

      Thank you for your advice, I’m a bit new to the whole concept. even sharing the knowledge of communism is illegal here. and there is a hidden communist organization and their movements as I heard. My guardians were terrorized by hearing that I would make a communist party the other day and advised me not to for my safety. I’ll be joining or making one as soon as I can.

      • @CriticalResist8A
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        53 years ago

        Whatever you do, please stay safe. Weigh the pros and cons. I know some comrades who have had trouble with the law for their convictions (back in the 70s one of them was sent to jail for refusing to join the draft) and these infractions didn’t seem to prevent them from finding employment and continuing the fight, but being locked behind bars for years on end is certainly not going to help the revolution – and that depends what the penalties actually are. So please research this thoroughly before making any decision.

        • @EvelynOP
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          3 years ago

          Yes I’m aware. I’m always finding myself researching things and when I do have trouble with that I will ask for direction from other comrades. so far what I can understand from reading the legality of it. the whole operation is in fact illegal. the movements have to remain hidden or at least not obvious in plain sight.

          Sadly the safeness of the operation must be unraveled first. I haven’t read the full thing and I don’t think killing communists is legal now. but it seems that even now the majority of people is still against communism. back then they justified killing millions of comrades. I think no one would care if we get killed here; they would see it as an act of heroism.

          If I found that it is as bad as I thought. I’ll find hidden means of communications. I have to minimize to risks, first find comrades and hidden organizations. set up and decentralize the communications, teach them of opsec, and only exist in the digital world to share knowledge and spread the truth around. we will never have meetings or movements in the real world because it might risk our lives, as long as It’s illegal.

  • @Pibe
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    33 years ago

    Quick answer: no

    Longer answer: For the most part, no. A communist organization (which ought to be a communist party, even under conditions of illegality) should not be dependent on the bourgeoisie for funds, even if in rare cases they may receive donations from a bourgeois traitor to their class. However, regular donations from the bourgeoisie cannot be a long-term strategy and the basis for fundraising.

    • @EvelynOP
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      3 years ago

      this was the idea initially: if it agrees to fund the organization, I will take it. however I’ll work on becoming independent of them by the end.

      All I could think of at the moment is the working class themselves crowd-fund the organization.

  • T34 [they/them]
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    33 years ago

    I was intending to start an communist organization masked as a normal company (communism is illegal in my country), my first goal to give workers a good working environment, and to pay them as high as I could.

    You’re getting a lot of great responses. I also suggest looking at Rosa Luxemburg’s critique of coops.

    Co-operatives – especially co-operatives in the field of production constitute a hybrid form in the midst of capitalism. They can be described as small units of socialised production within capitalist exchange.

    But in capitalist economy exchanges dominate production. As a result of competition, the complete domination of the process of production by the interests of capital – that is, pitiless exploitation – becomes a condition for the survival of each enterprise. The domination of capital over the process of production expresses itself in the following ways. Labour is intensified. The work day is lengthened or shortened, according to the situation of the market. And, depending on the requirements of the market, labour is either employed or thrown back into the street. In other words, use is made of all methods that enable an enterprise to stand up against its competitors in the market. The workers forming a co-operative in the field of production are thus faced with the contradictory necessity of governing themselves with the utmost absolutism. They are obliged to take toward themselves the role of capitalist entrepreneur – a contradiction that accounts for the usual failure of production co-operatives which either become pure capitalist enterprises or, if the workers’ interests continue to predominate, end by dissolving.

    The upshot is that the low pay and bad working conditions are dictated by the market, and any business you create would be forced through market competition to reproduce these conditions.

    Business profits are like 10%. You will need some of that to survive. So even if you’re willing to live in poverty, you can at most afford to pay your workers a few percent more or treat them a few percent better, but not both.

    • @EvelynOP
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      23 years ago

      The upshot is that the low pay and bad working conditions are dictated by the market, and any business you create would be forced through market competition to reproduce these conditions.

      Business profits are like 10%. You will need some of that to survive. So even if you’re willing to live in poverty, you can at most afford to pay your workers a few percent more or treat them a few percent better, but not both.

      anything better is better for the people in my country, a few percent more is at least high enough for them to not struggle with their lives. especially because great numbers of people here are unemployed. hopefully that means more and more people will work for me. the remaining profits goes to the Marxism education program, to improve the organization and working places, and just enough for me to survive.

      I’m not experienced with entrepreneurship and leading groups. I have not much knowledge about the common struggles the proletariat have. I’ll read more into it, thanks for recommending that paper.