OK, people here are conflating pedophilia with actual child sex abuse. Pedophilia is a mental disorder where you are sexually attracted to children, child sex abuse is when you sexually victimize a child. Not all child sex abusers are pedophiles, not all pedophiles abuse children.
Look, I am in no way defending either, and sex offenders should absolutely be punished harshly, so why does this matter? Because, if you say “we should kill/gulag all pedophiles” as in, everyone with the mental disorder of being sexually attracted to children, you’re going to run into several problems. Namely, how do you reliably convict someone of a mental state? Thought crime can’t be enforced. This isn’t George Orwell’s world which I thought we all agreed is a horribly inaccurate strawman representation of socialism. If you try to do that, you both falsely convict a ton of innocent people, and will absolutely cause non-offending pedophiles to keep their disorder a secret, until it manifests as actual, physical sex abuse that can actually be convicted.
Instead, if you encouraged non-offending pedophiles to seek psychiatric help before the disorder manifests as action, they can get the treatment they need for that mental state, and you actually prevent sex crime from ever happening. It has been shown that pedophilia can be treated and go into remission just like any other mental disorder.
But I guess I’m just dumb and/or a “pedophilia enabler” in thinking preventing such a serious crime instead of reactionary punishment once it’s been committed and people irrevocably harmed, is worth doing and more conducive to protecting children.
What should really be considered is that there are child molesters who aren’t in fact with pedophilic disorder, and on the contrary people who haven’t done anything wrong because they struggle against their condition.
So in fact we should always swap “pedophile”, with “child molester” to be accurate and blame the right kind of people.
This is just the way of the world right now. Pedo is this weird trigger word that causes people to go blind with rage and lose all sembelance of rational thought, and if you try to actually talk them down they just say you’re into kids yourself.
The issue of pedophilia is what I like to call a “thought stopper”. Instead of trying to address it in a way that, you know, actually addresses the issue, people just get “justice”/revenge boners. It’s in the same class as the West’s attitude toward China, Russia, etc, and it’s a pitfall that we who claim to be materialists must watch out for.
I don’t see this kneejerk hot take reaction you’re talking about, and Fennekin sort of just assumed in their text that people would call them a pedophile enabler for taking the frankly rather acceptable stance they did.
I want to encourage you both to engage in good faith and assume the same from others here rather than begin assuming the worst out of people. The GZD discord is unbearable because everyone assumes bad faith from everyone else and thus everything is always horribly tense and un-comradely. It doesn’t have to be like that, and I would consider ‘reddit style’ behavior more congruent with assuming the worst out of people and twisting their words.
I think there is also a delicate balance of interplaying factors at work here - many of the people publicly calling for the death of “pedos” themselves were abused as children, they’re not monsters. Most of them probably equate the terms “pedophile” and “child molester” to mean the same thing, as another comrade pointed out. It’s an ignorant and potentially dangerous miscommunication that can deter pedophiles from getting help, but I think refusing to acknowledge the place that that anger comes from does a disservice to those who suffered the depravity of a child molester as well.
Fennekin sort of just assumed in their text that people would call them a pedophile enabler for taking the frankly rather acceptable stance they did.
I made thus comment before I read all the other comments, and you’re right, and I now can see that I might have been better off not putting snark in such a serious topic. I guess I’m just used to reading this discussion on Reddit, where yeah, everyone’s like “if someone even looks at a child for longer than they need to they should be drawn and quartered” and god forbid you actually point out problems with this (yet ironically, Reddit seems to have no problem with l*licon and other fictional CP, why?!) Actually pleasently surprised that here it’s not the case and most people agree that non-offending pedophiles should be treated instead.
I apologize if my comment seemed snarky or accusative or anything. I think most of the convo here has been useful and balanced, and I think it usually is. Even when a comrade presents an extreme overexaggeration of their beliefs, it’s often made in a fit of anger or annoyance, and when actually talked to I think that the realities of their views tend to look a lot like mine/ours, or they’re just not educated enough on the topic and are receptive to discussion. Usually.
Just not like reddit at all, at least in my experience, excepting trolls. On reddit, any time I made a post I felt prickly, the armor has to go up beforehand because I know no matter what I say the comments will be flooded with bad faith actors. Usually doesn’t feel that way here and I appreciate that.
OK, people here are conflating pedophilia with actual child sex abuse. Pedophilia is a mental disorder where you are sexually attracted to children, child sex abuse is when you sexually victimize a child. Not all child sex abusers are pedophiles, not all pedophiles abuse children.
Look, I am in no way defending either, and sex offenders should absolutely be punished harshly, so why does this matter? Because, if you say “we should kill/gulag all pedophiles” as in, everyone with the mental disorder of being sexually attracted to children, you’re going to run into several problems. Namely, how do you reliably convict someone of a mental state? Thought crime can’t be enforced. This isn’t George Orwell’s world which I thought we all agreed is a horribly inaccurate strawman representation of socialism. If you try to do that, you both falsely convict a ton of innocent people, and will absolutely cause non-offending pedophiles to keep their disorder a secret, until it manifests as actual, physical sex abuse that can actually be convicted.
Instead, if you encouraged non-offending pedophiles to seek psychiatric help before the disorder manifests as action, they can get the treatment they need for that mental state, and you actually prevent sex crime from ever happening. It has been shown that pedophilia can be treated and go into remission just like any other mental disorder.
But I guess I’m just dumb and/or a “pedophilia enabler” in thinking preventing such a serious crime instead of reactionary punishment once it’s been committed and people irrevocably harmed, is worth doing and more conducive to protecting children.
What should really be considered is that there are child molesters who aren’t in fact with pedophilic disorder, and on the contrary people who haven’t done anything wrong because they struggle against their condition.
So in fact we should always swap “pedophile”, with “child molester” to be accurate and blame the right kind of people.
Exactly.
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This is just the way of the world right now. Pedo is this weird trigger word that causes people to go blind with rage and lose all sembelance of rational thought, and if you try to actually talk them down they just say you’re into kids yourself.
The issue of pedophilia is what I like to call a “thought stopper”. Instead of trying to address it in a way that, you know, actually addresses the issue, people just get “justice”/revenge boners. It’s in the same class as the West’s attitude toward China, Russia, etc, and it’s a pitfall that we who claim to be materialists must watch out for.
deleted by creator
I don’t see this kneejerk hot take reaction you’re talking about, and Fennekin sort of just assumed in their text that people would call them a pedophile enabler for taking the frankly rather acceptable stance they did.
I want to encourage you both to engage in good faith and assume the same from others here rather than begin assuming the worst out of people. The GZD discord is unbearable because everyone assumes bad faith from everyone else and thus everything is always horribly tense and un-comradely. It doesn’t have to be like that, and I would consider ‘reddit style’ behavior more congruent with assuming the worst out of people and twisting their words.
I think there is also a delicate balance of interplaying factors at work here - many of the people publicly calling for the death of “pedos” themselves were abused as children, they’re not monsters. Most of them probably equate the terms “pedophile” and “child molester” to mean the same thing, as another comrade pointed out. It’s an ignorant and potentially dangerous miscommunication that can deter pedophiles from getting help, but I think refusing to acknowledge the place that that anger comes from does a disservice to those who suffered the depravity of a child molester as well.
I made thus comment before I read all the other comments, and you’re right, and I now can see that I might have been better off not putting snark in such a serious topic. I guess I’m just used to reading this discussion on Reddit, where yeah, everyone’s like “if someone even looks at a child for longer than they need to they should be drawn and quartered” and god forbid you actually point out problems with this (yet ironically, Reddit seems to have no problem with l*licon and other fictional CP, why?!) Actually pleasently surprised that here it’s not the case and most people agree that non-offending pedophiles should be treated instead.
I apologize if my comment seemed snarky or accusative or anything. I think most of the convo here has been useful and balanced, and I think it usually is. Even when a comrade presents an extreme overexaggeration of their beliefs, it’s often made in a fit of anger or annoyance, and when actually talked to I think that the realities of their views tend to look a lot like mine/ours, or they’re just not educated enough on the topic and are receptive to discussion. Usually.
Just not like reddit at all, at least in my experience, excepting trolls. On reddit, any time I made a post I felt prickly, the armor has to go up beforehand because I know no matter what I say the comments will be flooded with bad faith actors. Usually doesn’t feel that way here and I appreciate that.
I’d assume she’s referring to the post title