Yeah it’s a shame. I had otherwise good interactions with people banned that day, but the thread was a mess. I just hope they manage to review and adjust their views.
I had a few minor disagreements with him, mostly good interactions, every once in a while I was vaguely offput by the Baathist love bc the baathists were not cool w the idea of communism and Saddam (yea I know Anti-imperialism is better than licking the boot, but Qaddafi was anti-imperialist and way more based) was not Fuckin cool, not someone to look up to. And ultimately when I saw the posts leading to their ban, I was disgusted by the Faux-Marxism displayed. To paraphrase they said Since DialMat means everything develops and nothing is guaranteed or static, we can disregard the labor aristocracy in relation to Israel and Palestine because it will eventually break off anyways. I believe they had said that Palestinians and Israeli proletarians had common goals(which is not true really) which meant a 2 state solution is fine and that PatSoc Israelis are real communists and that Palestinians shouldn’t be against a Socialist Israel. That whole thing stunk to high heavens of a basic misunderstanding of settler colonialism and Israel’s history of expansion and oppression against West Asians and made me happy to see the ban
Yeah, i am usually willing to overlook a lot and give comrades time to learn and correct their views on most things, but the issue of Palestinian liberation that to me is non-negotiable for a ML.
It’s really not ambiguous in the slightest and there is no excuse at this point for still defending the existence of the settler colonial occupation regime. This goes beyond just patsoc cringe.
Yea I completely agree. In Ireland there are plenty of liberals and average people that are very pro-Palestine because even though the situation is different, they recognize the Imperialist struggle and oppression. Even as a kid with Irish-American family I was vaguely pro-Palestine and with more conversation I became more and more sympathetic.
These people could still be comrades, but their reactionary views should be harshly criticized. Stalin surely had some bad takes by today’s standards, but we need to consider his environment to contextualize those views; it’s not reasonable to be anti-abortion with the information available today (not that it was “reasonable” then – I’m not sure what word to use, but I hope I’m being decently clear). IMO, this isn’t as clear-cut as with, for example, slave owners – slavery should always have been clearly abhorrent, whereas I can kind of understand being anti-abortion at the time if one’s views on the subject had never been challenged
Most major economies and most countries have had abortion access for generations. We now have empirical evidence of the effects of abortion access. Religious convictions isnt a good enough reason to block people from having them.
I dont care if you’re working class and aint got a pot to piss in in the hills of Appalacia. If you’re against abortion for any reason; youre fucking wrong and that dimension of their politic shouldnt even be up for debate or inquiry. Being working class isnt an excuse for being a bigot or stupid and it aint a get out of education free card.
When socialism comes to Turtle Rock, itll be secular. Fucking cope.
It was much more complicated than this, read my posts in that thread for at least partial explanation of a problem.
Sad to see that two good comrades were banned over such convoluted mess despite explanations, but i guess we can’t have this discussion anywhere near US dominated spaces.
The problem with him was he was very persuasive and able to justify his argument. He is definitely knowledgeable, but he always tried to smuggle right deviant ideas. I’m definitely sure he is threading a fine line, and hidding his true intentions and convictions. And he is not a nobody like me, he was a mod in r/EuropeanSocialists. The direction it is heading, the way he is trying to steer conversations in here all made him a sus character.
Well this isn’t by any means untrue, even got upvoted. Question is, will this happen before Israel gets destroyed by either Palestinians or by outside Arab countries. And if this happens, what then?
well, fuck those guys
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Yeah it’s a shame. I had otherwise good interactions with people banned that day, but the thread was a mess. I just hope they manage to review and adjust their views.
I had a few minor disagreements with him, mostly good interactions, every once in a while I was vaguely offput by the Baathist love bc the baathists were not cool w the idea of communism and Saddam (yea I know Anti-imperialism is better than licking the boot, but Qaddafi was anti-imperialist and way more based) was not Fuckin cool, not someone to look up to. And ultimately when I saw the posts leading to their ban, I was disgusted by the Faux-Marxism displayed. To paraphrase they said Since DialMat means everything develops and nothing is guaranteed or static, we can disregard the labor aristocracy in relation to Israel and Palestine because it will eventually break off anyways. I believe they had said that Palestinians and Israeli proletarians had common goals(which is not true really) which meant a 2 state solution is fine and that PatSoc Israelis are real communists and that Palestinians shouldn’t be against a Socialist Israel. That whole thing stunk to high heavens of a basic misunderstanding of settler colonialism and Israel’s history of expansion and oppression against West Asians and made me happy to see the ban
Yeah, i am usually willing to overlook a lot and give comrades time to learn and correct their views on most things, but the issue of Palestinian liberation that to me is non-negotiable for a ML.
It’s really not ambiguous in the slightest and there is no excuse at this point for still defending the existence of the settler colonial occupation regime. This goes beyond just patsoc cringe.
Yea I completely agree. In Ireland there are plenty of liberals and average people that are very pro-Palestine because even though the situation is different, they recognize the Imperialist struggle and oppression. Even as a kid with Irish-American family I was vaguely pro-Palestine and with more conversation I became more and more sympathetic.
Not surprised he got banned with takes like this
These people could still be comrades, but their reactionary views should be harshly criticized. Stalin surely had some bad takes by today’s standards, but we need to consider his environment to contextualize those views; it’s not reasonable to be anti-abortion with the information available today (not that it was “reasonable” then – I’m not sure what word to use, but I hope I’m being decently clear). IMO, this isn’t as clear-cut as with, for example, slave owners – slavery should always have been clearly abhorrent, whereas I can kind of understand being anti-abortion at the time if one’s views on the subject had never been challenged
Most major economies and most countries have had abortion access for generations. We now have empirical evidence of the effects of abortion access. Religious convictions isnt a good enough reason to block people from having them.
I dont care if you’re working class and aint got a pot to piss in in the hills of Appalacia. If you’re against abortion for any reason; youre fucking wrong and that dimension of their politic shouldnt even be up for debate or inquiry. Being working class isnt an excuse for being a bigot or stupid and it aint a get out of education free card.
When socialism comes to Turtle Rock, itll be secular. Fucking cope.
? I never argued that it’s OK to be anti-abortion
Yeah, I know.
👍
Least right wing PatSoc
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It was much more complicated than this, read my posts in that thread for at least partial explanation of a problem.
Sad to see that two good comrades were banned over such convoluted mess despite explanations, but i guess we can’t have this discussion anywhere near US dominated spaces.
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Yea it was definitely the PatSoc Israel thing more than anything
The problem with him was he was very persuasive and able to justify his argument. He is definitely knowledgeable, but he always tried to smuggle right deviant ideas. I’m definitely sure he is threading a fine line, and hidding his true intentions and convictions. And he is not a nobody like me, he was a mod in r/EuropeanSocialists. The direction it is heading, the way he is trying to steer conversations in here all made him a sus character.
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Well this isn’t by any means untrue, even got upvoted. Question is, will this happen before Israel gets destroyed by either Palestinians or by outside Arab countries. And if this happens, what then?
yeah, reading through it now
shit I need a smoothie