In a sense, if we are american and communists because we feel for our fellow worker, I would call that a form of patriotism. While I think patsocs have engaged too much in the culture war deligitimizing themselves being patriotic and a socialist/communist is definitely possible.
So you want your country and your people to die in misery instead of flourishing under socialism and in equality? Patriotism has been the norm in communism since Stalin, even CPUSA with all its problems acknowledges this. This is Joe Sims, General Secretary of CPUSA, in 2014:
“Yes, there is a such a thing as working-class patriotism and it is our duty to uphold and defend it while distinguishing it from the false patriotism of the ruling class and particularly its extreme right. I am discussing here the substance of the matter of patriotism.”
You arent patriotic towards a state, you are patriotic towards a nation, towards the people. You think Mao only became patriotic for China when the PRC was founded? Please tell me, is Joe Sims a reactionary because he upholds proletarian patriotism?
Thats the point of patriotism, loving your people, fighting for their rights. Its not about “being proud and complacent of how great everything is”, thats propaganda spoonfed to you yankees since primary school.
Settler states even, like Israel or the US? Those built by having a settler garrison of poor proles wiping out and clearing the land of indigenous peoples? What’s there to be proud of about that?
Proletarian patriotism is love towards the people, towards the nation (or several nations in complex examples like USA). Its not love towards the bourgeois state, thats bourgeois patriotism.
Do you love the poor proles from europe who came to the US to evict the indigenous inhabitants so they could get some cheap land? What about Israeli settlers doing the same?
I assume you are ML who want to establish dictatorship of the proletariat, and not an anarchist playground for imperialists? Then this is patriotism. Proletarian patriotism.
You still have not answered, is Joe Sims and the entire CPUSA reactionary? Is the Communist Party of Spain reactionary? Is the Communist Party of Greece reactionary? Is the Russian Communist Party reactionary? Because they all uphold socialist patriotism, and always have. Please answer.
No, it’s reactionary, but I don’t understand a patsoc to understand.
CPUSA also wanted you to vote for Biden, so they aren’t much better. The KKE is mega reactionary too. I am not saying you can’t help correct the party lines in your country, but as it stands, all of these parties are reactionary and don’t follow a Marxist-Leninist line.
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In a sense, if we are american and communists because we feel for our fellow worker, I would call that a form of patriotism. While I think patsocs have engaged too much in the culture war deligitimizing themselves being patriotic and a socialist/communist is definitely possible.
Yeah I think patsocs usually mean a different kind of patriotism, where they are proud of how things are currently
So you want your country and your people to die in misery instead of flourishing under socialism and in equality? Patriotism has been the norm in communism since Stalin, even CPUSA with all its problems acknowledges this. This is Joe Sims, General Secretary of CPUSA, in 2014:
“Yes, there is a such a thing as working-class patriotism and it is our duty to uphold and defend it while distinguishing it from the false patriotism of the ruling class and particularly its extreme right. I am discussing here the substance of the matter of patriotism.”
Source: https://www.cpusa.org/article/some-thoughts-on-patriotism-the-national-question-and-the-leninist-tradition/
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You arent patriotic towards a state, you are patriotic towards a nation, towards the people. You think Mao only became patriotic for China when the PRC was founded? Please tell me, is Joe Sims a reactionary because he upholds proletarian patriotism?
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Also, I’m pretty sure he never simped for the Qing dynasty.
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Based take
Thats the point of patriotism, loving your people, fighting for their rights. Its not about “being proud and complacent of how great everything is”, thats propaganda spoonfed to you yankees since primary school.
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Who mentioned nationalism? Im talking about patriotism, a very different thing. You dont even know the difference man.
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Settler states even, like Israel or the US? Those built by having a settler garrison of poor proles wiping out and clearing the land of indigenous peoples? What’s there to be proud of about that?
Proletarian patriotism is love towards the people, towards the nation (or several nations in complex examples like USA). Its not love towards the bourgeois state, thats bourgeois patriotism.
Do you love the poor proles from europe who came to the US to evict the indigenous inhabitants so they could get some cheap land? What about Israeli settlers doing the same?
shrugs
My fascist family hates the bourgeoisie state too.
Can’t I believe in working class solidarity without espousing patriotism?
I assume you are ML who want to establish dictatorship of the proletariat, and not an anarchist playground for imperialists? Then this is patriotism. Proletarian patriotism.
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You still have not answered, is Joe Sims and the entire CPUSA reactionary? Is the Communist Party of Spain reactionary? Is the Communist Party of Greece reactionary? Is the Russian Communist Party reactionary? Because they all uphold socialist patriotism, and always have. Please answer.
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Lol are you joking?
No, it’s reactionary, but I don’t understand a patsoc to understand. CPUSA also wanted you to vote for Biden, so they aren’t much better. The KKE is mega reactionary too. I am not saying you can’t help correct the party lines in your country, but as it stands, all of these parties are reactionary and don’t follow a Marxist-Leninist line.