I was not aware that scifi could be this good.
Only on S1 E17 (“only” as if I didn’t start watching this like 3 days ago) and I’m told it only gets better. It has not disappointed me yet even with its wildest shit.
how I feel abt some of the characters
Sisko is the chad Old Guard Stalinist who makes questionable decisions at times and is a hardass boss but his intent and his impact are always in service to the people, all people.
Kira is my forever unrequited love (as she is fictional). Kira is absolutely amazing, the revolutionary who actually seized power and is now dealing with the ugly consequences of having said power. She’s the forever-revolutionary and at least so far a goddamn aspirational one and a Bajoran global hero.
Julian needs to keep his libido in check. Thirsty as fuck and has some xenorientalism to work through. Incredible doctor and is devoted the cause when it makes necessary demands.
O’Brien is an absolute Stakhanovite and I love him for it. Wish I was raised by him instead of my dad.
Odo is so badass. So far he only has a fleeting understanding of his species, but at least from the perspective of some, Odo is a living relic. People tell ancient myths about changelings! He is perhaps the last of his kind (idk, s1 e17) and I think he stands as a wonderful representative of his people. The People’s Constable through and through.
I hope Quark has a mindbreak and becomes a communist or he’s murdered on-screen. I understand the series goes into more detail about the reasons why the Ferengi are like that… but to be completely honest, in the Star Trek universe at least, I would almost definitely be quite racist against Ferengi. Sisko didn’t want Jake to hang out with Nog and I sympathized. I like that he came to his senses later that xenoracism is uncool, but Nog so far has only gotten worse and worse in his profit-before-people shit. Hope it changes.
Dax is interesting. I like the Trill lore. I’m not sure if the Curzon Dax stuff has more context in earlier iterations or not, but it hasn’t hampered my enjoyment of Dax’s character. Old man.
Blows my mind that this came out in 1993. It feels like communist art. Diplomacy first, always. Profiteering is disgusting and condemnable and humans should have no desire to do it, to the extent that it would be literally alien to us to fuck over others just for economic gain. The Bajoran politics are fascinating and, like I said, I love Kira and stan whatever carbombings she had to do to win independence.
Also, the Cardassians are fucking horrifying and look like animated and decaying Greco/Roman statues. I get major Rome and Amerika vibes from them, though the Ferengi are also quite Amerikan.
Can’t believe I’ve put off Star Trek for this long. Also can’t believe there was ever a freakin’ debate between whether Star Trek or Star Wars is better, I’m feeling a radical difference in tone. In DS9 at least, there’s rarely been le good guys and le bad guys the way there is in Star Wars especially post-Disney. I feel Star Wars also plays up the heroic fantasy to the 14th level, which is ok, but not necessarily interesting aside from visually, at least to me.
Anyway, I love this show and would like to see what people wanna say about it.
I wish I was in your shoes and could watch this show for the first time again. Like you heard, it only gets better. Characters will get fleshed out and so will the world and they will cover some interesting and important aspects of life, our world, etc. Idk if this is your first Star Trek show, but I also highly recommend The Next Generation.
And you haven’t even got to the really good seasons yet. Bashir, kira, and Dax really get some depth.
By about the 3rd season, you’ll love every character, they’ll feel like a family, and then shit really hits the fan, and you get to see what the show is about: AES under siege. Every character faces complex moral dilemmas, with their very survival being at stake.
Sisko goes full Stalin, who loves jazz and baseball. Kira is essentially a palestinian freedom fighter, who deals with the complexities of decolonization, and competing political interests on her home planet. Jadzia becomes the both the most fun, and wisest character. You’ll start to like quark more, because he’s an outlet for us to mock capitalism, but he also has a beating heart under there, and has some really good episodes. O’Brien is a proletarian hero who has some of the most heart-wrenching episodes.
Oooh, and you still got some great vic fontaine and garak episodes coming up.
btw I recently watched the episode Duet, its in season one, and it is one of the best things to ever appear on TV. I’ve never seen anything else that deals with the concept of colonialist guilt in such a powerful way.
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Watch Star Wars: The Clone Wars next!
Just finished Duet. Goddamn. Made me cry honestly,
especially when
Kira approached the Cardassian file clerk and told him what he was trying to do was noble, but he was not the war criminal they were looking for. Now that the Bajorans have power, they cannot become just like the Cardassian occupiers. But you have to sympathize some with the Bajoran who takes his life, later, too, to some extent. Just, shit. So good.
I will say I like when Quark’s, eh, “humanity” or soul shines through, but there’s a bit of a throwaway scene early on where Quark has apparently tricked dancers with some vague text in their contracts that makes it legal for him to sexually assault (?) them. It could have been more innocent than that and just something annoying or kinda grody (like they had to touch his ears or something lol) but it’s lingered in my mind since, even when he shows a modicum of ethics, like in ALLAMARAINE when he cares about the crew’s safety.
Also I don’t get the memehate for the Allamaraine episode aside from perhaps the earworm. I thought it was a psychadelic ass episode in the best way.
Touching a male Ferengi’s ears is basically sexual in nature - that’s made pretty clear in the show so, yeah, it’s rather gross.
Oh and yeah - Duet is fucking amazing. Easily up there with In The Pale Moonlight that gets a lot more attention.
DS9 to me really makes Star Trek much more richer in so many concepts. While Star Trek TOS and TNG have been good entries in sci-fi. They rarely get to talking more about the universe and more.
You like S1? Man, you’re gonna love the rest. The best Star Trek imo are seasons 5 and beyond. The Ferengi are the representation of capitalism in the ST Universe. The Cardassians are space nazis, and it seems pretty obvious their occupation of Bajor is a parallel with the occupation of Palestine by Israel.
Never thought of O’Brien that way but yeah he’s great. Him and Sisko are my favorites.
If you are going to critique capitalism in your far flung future show, you have to have some capitalists to critique! Ferengi are a fun extrapolation of capital infesting all aspects of society. From religion (the great continuum, rules of acquisition) to death traditions (auctioning parts of your body as collectable memorabilia), to gender roles (women as property). They’re easily my favorite Trek species, mostly because of how much of a cartoon version of our own existence they are.
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potential spoilers
On S3 E11-ish now. You bastards were right, this show just keeps getting better and better. I feel mostly similar about Kira, Sisko, and even Quark (although I do appreciate his necessity as a contrast to those in the Federation). But I love most of the characters even more than I did.
newfound thoughts on characters
Julian has learned to keep it in his pants. The two-parter Past Tense really showed me what his values are and I respect him far more now - it is so interesting watching his devotion to being a doctor first and foremost and a representative of the Federation second, and the conflicts of interest that may bring - like in the aforementioned Past Tense where he helps diagnose a child even though it may fuck up the past.
Sisko grabbed the fucking shotty and was ready to make revolution and I have never felt so goddamn inspired by a show. Just, damn. He knows what the 21st century was like and the violence that was necessary. He knows in his own time that peaceful resolutions are more likely.
Kira, oh Kira how I adore thee. I am excited to see her continue to work for Bajoran independence.
Odo’s newfound understanding of his species and what I would almost consider his spiritual awakening hits so hard. I am so glad we got to delve into that and hope we delve into it even more. He’s crushing on Kira right now and I ship it, even though it seems a little bit impossible. I do also love he and Quark’s dynamic.
On Quark… ugh, fuck this guy so hard. Last I saw of him he was trying to help a pervert molest holo-Kira… bro needs to learn his fucking lesson. I enjoy that the show deals with the inherent contradictions of being at all decent and being Ferengi, like when he fell for the feeeeemale Ferengi who was acting as a male. Of course he ends the episode saying he would not be happy unless she was always naked and completely subservient. I wanna rip his ears off. I appreciate his place in the show more, though.
O’Brien has only gotten more based. The episode Whispers absolutely blew my mind and I love when he’s the main focus.
Dax has become way more interesting now that Jadzia has been given a chance to shine through.
I like the Cardassians as a foil to the Federation as well. I’m curious to see what happens with the Dominion in the picture, now. A military alliance may become necessary in the near future…?
god I love this show.
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How I envy you watching it through for the first time :)
When it was on network TV it was hard to follow because it had such long story arcs. But when you can watch it consecutively at your leisure and absorb the plot it’s evidently the Magnum Opus of the Star Trek universe. As another commenter said, by season 3 the characters really start to shine in their own ways and you will love almost all of them. And then you will see how they fit together when shit gets real.
IMO DS9 has a proper balance of utopic ideals and actions alongside dealing with many complex situations without a “nice and easy” answer. New Star Trek has too much of darkness and dystopic vibes for my taste (real life is bad enough, I could use a bit more utopia sprinkled in my Star Trek)
DAE wish they had a dad like Sisko? (maybe just me)
Sisko seems like a phenomenal father, single dad just trying his best.
I adore the scenes where he’s trying (but failing) to explain how to le romance women to Jake and he’s like “Well Jake the one thing you oughtta know about women is you gotta respect em as fellow human beings”, it’s so funny but quite heartwarming as well. Watching him flirt with Jennifer in the beach flashback scene made him feel so human and uhhh attractive lol. When his human shows through, I feel all warm and tingly inside. When his loyal party functionary shows through, I feel inspired, real oorah type vibe.
There are terrible aspects of our age of streaming, but I do feel blessed to be able to watch this show on demand. (It and the Walking Dead lol)
I love the Ferengi in DS9. They exist as a mirror to the viewer. The show is saying “this (the Federation) is the fantasy you want to escape to, the society we aspire to become” and then it shows us the Ferengi and says “and this is what we are.”
But it’s gentle about it. Quark is often frustrating or infuriating, but it also invites you to laugh at him, and sometimes pity him, and he’s at his best when he defies his culture and cleaves to this deep, hidden virtue that he’s culturally ashamed to admit to having. And watching how all the Ferengi characters develop over the course of the show is the most uplifting thing.
But the best thing about the way DS9 approaches the subject is that while Ferengi culture is undeniably based on contemporary human capitalism, it’s not ‘human’ culture. Normal is Ben, Jake, Nerys, Julian, Miles, Odo and Dax, and whenever they contrast with Ferengi they’re showing you that capitalism isn’t an intrinsic, inalienable part of human nature. It’s profoundly alien.
Yes! I think the Ferengi arc shows us how becoming fully atomized by capitalism deprives us of knowing our selves, and being true to who we are. Quark is regularly at odds with what his culture and capitalism demands of him, and what he knows is right. Roms greatness isn’t fully realized until he loses his chains. He could never live up to what capitalism demands of him, he never “fit” into that mold. He was to empathetic, principaled, and loyal to his friends and family, and the system he was born into crushes him for it. It isn’t until he finds solidarity that his situation improves.
I could go on and on lol.
I have mixed feelings about TNG as a whole, but this really makes me interested in watching DS9
I can highly recommend it
TNG is a slow burn, but it’s highs are really high. I feel like DS9 hits those highs at a more frequent pace. Definitely watch DS9. It’s really good.
I just finished my first full run through of DS9 despite watching it when it came out (I got distracted by hormones).
It is such a good series. The character development really was top notch.
I refuse to watch it, but mainly out of spite, tbh.
Spite towards whom/what?
Gen Xers
I don’t understand the connection
fair
Personally the cringest shit I’ve heard on it from gen xers on it only came from a coworker a few years ago and he thought DS9 took the series backwards because of its “focus on melodrama” lol. Looking back, I should have viewed that coming from him as a further incentive to watch the show.
kewl
I’m an elder millennial who grew up with DS9 and Voyager so I’m not following either.
Everyone tells me to watch 'em.
