Holodomor week has concluded in my history class and I figured I would write about everything that was said and has happened. This wont just be about the class material but other things said to us in and out of class. Everything that happens in this class seems interconnected to me, even emails about events being held at the school feel very much related (and this is self admitted by my professor). I highly suggest you stick around and read this whole post, because it’s not just the course materials that are a problem, but the institution and professor as a whole.

Day 2 of what I am calling “holodomor week” happened the same day I received that god awful email from my professor (he actually sent it after class so it felt almost targeted since I was not behaving as I usually do, maybe he noticed). While the first class of the week played out the Bolshevik revolution and Soviet stuff in a more generalized sense (here’s the post about it if your curious) this class dove “deep” into the famine itself. And by “deep” I mean it sarcastically because this lecture did not, in fact, wade into darker, more nuanced, waters.

He begins the class saying Stalin targeted ethnic minorities that he suspected to be traitors (pro-German and/or anti-Russian). He goes on to cite Timothy Snyder who said that the most persecuted European minority at the time were Soviet Poles. My professor then calls Stalin anti-polish and talks about the ethnic cleansing campaigns of the 1930s. He admits that there was a famine across the Soviet Union but it hit Ukraine especially hard. My professor asks if the holodomor was intentionally called that so it could sound more like holocaust, he directs this question at the one Ukrainian girl in class. She said that it was a coincidence. Fun Fact, he directs his questions at the Ukrainian girl a lot during this class, treating her like an absolute authority.

He talks about how there are still debates on whether the holodomor was a genocide or not. The west says yes, but Russia says no. He pokes fun at this, because obviously Russia would deny it as a genocide because they don’t want to be prosecuted. He then says that Putin is trying to erase Ukrainian identity as a whole.

A quote from Norman Naimark was shown:

The Ukrainian killer famine should be considered an act of genocide. There is enough evidence—if not overwhelming evidence-to indicate that Stalin and his lieutenants knew that the widespread famine in the USSR in 1932-33 hit Ukraine particularly hard, and that they were ready to see millions of Ukrainian peasants die as a result. They made no efforts to provide relief; they prevented the peasants from seeking food themselves in the cities or elsewhere in the USSR; and they refused to relax restrictions on grain deliveries until it was too late. Stalin’s hostility to the Ukrainians and their attempts to maintain their form of “home rule” as well as his anger that Ukrainian peasants resisted collectiviation fueled the killer famine.

My professor then says that the first half of the quote was indisputable. He then shows a quote from Stephen Kotkin who says the famine was not intentional:

“There is no question of Stalin’s responsibility for the famine” and "many deaths could have been prevented if not for the insufficient and counterproductive Soviet measures, but “there is no evidence for Stalin’s intention to kill the Ukrainians deliberately… the Holodomor was a foreseeable byproduct of the collectivization campaign that Stalin forcibly imposed, but not an intentional murder.”

My professor says that the famine was man-made and that the soviets knowingly put into place policies that would cause the famine. That is indisputable. Stalin knew the famine was starting and intentionally seized crops for the cities and to send overseas. He then played a video from this website for the class: http://sharethestory.ca/index.html

The specific video he showed was “Halyna’s story” for those curious. After the video ended I could hear people crying. A girl spoke up (she does that a lot in this class) that her grandmother is Estonian and had a very similar story, so the video is accurate. He then says that it’s been 80 years but the emotions are still so raw.

So why was this woman persecuted, he asks the class. Some of the answers given were because she and her family did not collectivize but also because of some unknown sin (i think this last comment was alluding to her possibly being persecuted because she’s Ukrainian); because Ukraine is very agricultural; kulaks and Ukrainian were conflated; and the last reason was Ukraine identified with feudalism and the Soviet Union wanted to get rid of feudalism.

Raphael Lemkin, the guy who coined the term genocide, says the holodomor was genocide (I am so disappointed in you, Lemkin, I thought you were cool). What a bummer. A girl spoke up saying she was, at first, not sure if the famine was an actual genocide but now she’s convinced it was because even though the Soviets said they wanted to end the church itself, they actually only wanted to replace the Ukrainian church with a Russian one, so like a form of imperialism I guess. My professor then said that Stalin only really tolerated the Russian Orthodox Church, not really supporting it. The Ukrainian girl said that the Soviet Union wanted a rootless people, to create a new man, the soviet man, a human that is loyal to the state and if culture gets in the way of that then the culture is to be liquidated. My professor jokes that maybe this was a genocide against everyone.

Under the UN genocide convention you cannot commit genocide against a class, that is because when the convention was being created the USSR vetoed class as a target. The girl with the Estonian grandma piped up again saying that she was researching the USSR and the UN and said that it was the one country that did the most vetos because had they not vetoed anything then they would have been implicated in many crimes.

He made a comment about the famine invigorating nationalism (i did wonder if this was directed at me). He then shows a quote from Stalin that proponents of the famine being a genocide use as proof:

”The main thing is now Ukraine. Matters in Ukraine are now extremely bad. Bad from the standpoint of the Party line. Kosior… Chubar…(and) Redens [Ukrainian Bolshevik leaders]…lack the energy to direct the struggle with the counterrevolution in such a big and unique republic as Ukraine. If we do not now correct the situation in Ukraine, we could lose Ukraine. Consider that Pulsudski [a Polish leader who wanted to create an independent Ukraine aligned with Poland]…is not daydreaming, and his agents in Ukraine are much stronger than Redens or Kosior imagine. Also consider that within the Ukrainian Communist Party (500,000 members, ha, ha) there are not a few (yes, not a few!) rotten elements that are conscious or unconscious Petliura [Ukrainian nationalist who fought for an independent Ukraine during Russian Civil War] adherents and in the final analysis agents of Pilsudski. If the situation gets any worse, these elements won’t hesitate to open a front within (and outside) the Party, against the Party… Set yourself the task of turning Ukraine in the shortest possible time into a fortress of the USSR, into the most inalienable republic. Don’t worry about money for this purpose.”

He brings up Stalin’s 1932 order against Ukraine and the NKVD blacklist. He said that the soviets had a stockpile to feed the Ukrainians but chose not to. He then mentioned Stalin’s secret decree called “Preventing the mass exodus of peasants who are starving.” What does this mean? I have no fucking clue. He also did not go into details about it.

Intent vs Outcome: students argued that the intent doesn’t matter as the outcome was the same, what happened in the Congo and this famine are similar. There was not enough food in the Nazi camps so the prisoners hoarded food and fought each other over it, there wasn’t enough food in Ukraine so people hid it from each other. I guess both are the same. He then conflated Israeli nationalism and Ukrainian nationalism, that what happened to the Jews fuels Israel and what happened with the famine fuels Ukraine. And I guess thats just a-okay.

Day 3, aka the final day. In my opinion this day was way more of a shit show even though the main topic wasn’t the holodomor, why? You’re about to find out, don’t worry. For this day we had to read a chapter from Mike Davis’ Late Victorian Holocausts. The Chapter we were assigned was “Victoria’s Ghosts” and it is all about the 1876-1878 Indian Famine.

He began our class by saying this week is all about famine and how it may intersect with genocide. So I am sure a lot of you are familiar with this famine, is coincides with the global El Niño that caused other famines too. 10 million Indians died from this famine. He said it was called the largest tragedy at the time. But was it a natural disaster or man-made?

There was a monsoon failure which led to a drought. Crop yields did decrease but there was still enough food to feed everyone, there was also lots of money too. But even so food was being shipped out not kept, food was going to everyone else except the hungry. He said something about failures in mechanism of supply. It happened because of policy failures, but there were also Indian “kulaks.” The policies in place were those to starve people. Why were the British exporting? Well, the small government let the market make the decisions, who ever can pay more gets the grain. So capitalism is the problem, glad we agree (he did not say that, thats all me baby). Theres also this thing called cash crops, where agriculture was a taken up by opium and grain for the global market rather than to feed those who are starving, you can’t eat opium. There was also deindustrialization of India, the British wanted to flood the market with cheaper English goods and Bengal industries got wiped out. The market economy replaced the moral economy, a Marxist economist came up with the term “moral economy,” he said their name but it was hard to make out. Revenue collection, taxes from India were not really being used properly, they went towards railroads, camps, etc. He then says that weather was more of a factor in this famine than in Ukraine but it was still man-made. Famine is a tool for genocide, for example many Holocaust victims died of famine as it was used by the Nazis to kill off those who were not sent to gas chambers. A girl brings up Ukraine again saying that before she was iffy if it was a genocide but now she’s convinced because the Soviets were actively repressing and replacing Ukrainian culture with Russians.

This part is incredibly weird and quite insulting: he goes on to say that Mike Davis is a Marxist and asks us to picture what he might look like, repeating that this man is a Marxist scholar. Then a photo of him is shown and everyone (except me) laughs. The girl with the Estonian grandma said he looks like someone’s peepaw. What the fuck is going on? Why would he do this? He literally didn’t do this with anyone else we’ve studied in class so why with Davis? We all know why… He then reads off a quote from Davis from I think the first pages of the book:

“In her somberly measured reflections, Reading the Holocaust, Inga Glendinnen ventures this opinion about the slaughter of innocents: 'If we grant that ‘Holocaust’, the total consumption of offerings by fire, is sinisterly appropriate for the murder of those millions who found their only graves in the air, it is equally appropriate for the victims of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Dresden.” Without using her capitalization (which implies too complete an equation between the Shoah and other carnages), it is the burden of this book to show that imperial policies towards starving subjects were often the moral equivalents of bombs dropped from 18000 feet. The contemporary photographs used in this book are thus intended as accusations not illustrations."

So basically, Mike Davis is using the word holocaust to make a connection between what happened to the victims of the (upper case) Holocaust to what happened in India in the late 18 hundreds. With this quote he is trying to be provocative (profs’ words, not mine), it is well written but polemic to get people to think. He then says he’s not entirely comfortable with everything he’s said in class (as in what he lectured and read off to us), why? Is it uncomfortable to hear the thoughts of a Marxist?

He then asks us if we thought this book belonged on our syllabus. So students piped up here and there; within the authoritarian context they compared Stalin and Viceroy: Stalin had his quote about how western countries industrialized due to exploiting their colonies but the USSR had no colonies to exploit, so it would treat its country side like colonies. Britain exploited the shit out of India, so I guess they’re both the same because both did colonialism.

What about capitalism vs communism? A girl said they become the same thing in terms of whatever goes along with their ideology (money vs the revolution). Both ideologies saw people as disposable. In the USSR, Marx was right and because of that anything is justified to reach a communist utopia. If it takes a famine then so be it. He then says that Marx was help up as almost like a biblical figure in the Soviet Union. Adam Smith was held with the same regard in the west, so I guess they are the same. The ends justify the means. Both ideologies are not applied consistently, work camps established in India go against their philosophy or “small government.” Both lack empathy, the British pushed famine refugees away and Stalin did the same apparently. Racism was a factor for the British but it wasn’t really talked about when it came to the Soviet famine.

We then talked about the banality of evil with a guy named Richard Temple. This wasn’t discussed too much so we will move on.

The holodomor and this famine are both obsessed with ideas: liquidation of the rich was compared to the elimination of the poor… what? How the fuck is that comparable in any way? The systems put in place targeted and affected Indians, not white settlers. Both famines claim higher ideological goals but warped it. Both Soviets and the British had food but exported it rather than feed those who needed it. My professor then makes a comment that he hopes this reading (of Mike Davis) doesn’t turn us into communists because of everything communism has done… fuck you, dude! He goes on to finish the lecture saying that the two famines are very different still because there was no monsoon failure in Ukraine, so he doesn’t like to compare them too closely. If you opposed policy in the Soviet Union you got sent to the gulag, if you opposed policy of the British nothing would really happen to you. This last part was very weird to hear, it was almost as if he was downplaying what happened in India, because Ukraine had it so much worse. At least in India there was the weather aspect but Ukraine was entirely man-made. What a situation sentiment to have, at least be consistent with your shit ideology.

Even though the lecture ended, the day did not. I exited the class, absolutely disgusted with what I had to listen to, and went straight to the library. During my time doing work I saw I had an email from my history professor, this time it wasn’t directed at me but the whole class. In this email he alerts us to some events: a student in our class is going to give a “talk” comparing Nazi germany and North Korea with regards to sexual violence and concentration camps, he is encouraging us to attend this dumbass presentation as it relates to the class material. The other event is about a film screening of 20 Days in Mariupol that is gang to happen soon, he says the movie is “sadly” relevant to our class. He then ends the email telling us to enjoy the weather over the weekend since our class is so depressing.

Have any of you watched that movie? Is it worth it? I will not be attending that student’s talk. She is incredibly annoying and I’m not about to learn about the DPRK from some white girl that has never been there who wants to compare it to Nazi fucking Germany. Womp Womp. Also I have class during her little event so thankfully I’ve got a great excuse not to attend.

That’s all from me. Sometimes I feel like I’m being personally targeted now but I’m probably just being paranoid, it’s an institutional problem not just a professor thing. I will be having paper consultations soon and I am staying firm on my topic being about the Donbas, no matter what he or the head of the Ukrainian “club” think about it. I will not be bullied into submission.

  • @REEEEvolution
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    322 months ago

    My professor asks if the holodomor was intentionally called that so it could sound more like holocaust, he directs this question at the one Ukrainian girl in class. She said tat it was a coincidence.

    Anyone knowing shit about history and languages knows this is bullshit.

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      142 months ago

      I can’t remember all the details but didn’t the word crop up after the holocaust?

        • @SpaceDogsOPM
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          Oh thats so much worse than I expected! My girl said it was a coincidence, though I can’t blame her since she’s from Ukraine and was taught whatever they wanted, but man thats so bad. I should not be shocked my teacher doesn’t know this but for some reason I still am.

            • @SpaceDogsOPM
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              52 months ago

              Great article, thank you for sharing! I take all the reading material I can get.

          • @REEEEvolution
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            2 months ago

            And she lacked the intellectual curiosity to double check. That girl will have a bright career ahead of herself in some dronie NGO.

            • @SpaceDogsOPM
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              32 months ago

              That seems to be the case with multiple students in my class, probably not all of them, but the ones who speak the most follow the same narrative. It’s such a shame but it is what it is…

              • @REEEEvolution
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                42 months ago

                Yeah, western education breeds intellectual lazyness.

      • @REEEEvolution
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        122 months ago

        Over 3 decades afterwards. Everyone knew the term Holocaust by then.

  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
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    2 months ago

    It’s funny how he talked down to you about “fringe” positions and then teaches the “Holodomor” as though the “man made famine” hypothesis was anything but revisionist accusation made by far-right cranks. It’s a completely discredited view.

    In the USSR, Marx was right and because of that anything is justified to reach a communist utopia

    They’re just self-reporting that they have no idea how Marxism works

    comparing Nazi germany and North Korea with regards to sexual violence and concentration camps

    Concentration of who? What fucking minority is the DPRK concentrating? Are we pretending there’s a Cheondoist genocide now or something? A prison camp is just a style of prison (many buildings with open-air space, not one big building with a yard), it’s not like either the work or death camps the Nazis used and conflating them should be regarded as Holocaust revisionism.

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      112 months ago

      These were the images used to “promote” the talk this girl is giving:

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      He is so condescending too which makes it so much worse. I knew this week of the class would be a doozy but, holy shit, I didn’t realize it would be this bad. Literally making fun of Mike Davis’ looks because he is a Marxist… this school is dark sided.

      • @Giyuu
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        82 months ago

        Yeah I’ve seen cryptofascists try to make fun of Marx looking like Santa to try to get observers to laugh with them. Pretty pathetic stuff and not out of the norm for any reactionary.

        • @SpaceDogsOPM
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          42 months ago

          During our office hours together he seemed well meaning, its why I felt comfortable enough to confide in him about my issues with the display and me being “fringe,” but after this week, less than that actually since shit really hit the fan on Wednesday, I have no decent view of this professor. I am absolutely disgusted by his lectures. Maybe he is a cryptofascist. I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt but I don’t think I can with him anymore.

          • @Giyuu
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            32 months ago

            Didnt mean he was a crypto fascist, sorry! Just that seeing as your prof is reactionary in general, it’s not surprising.

            • @SpaceDogsOPM
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              32 months ago

              I didn’t mean to imply that’s what you meant, it’s where my mind is going. I gave him the benefit of the doubt of being a simple, normal liberal, but this past week has made me suspicious. If he’s not a cryptofascist than someone more higher up definitely is considering how they reacted to my concerns about a neo-Nazi display and Ivan Katchanovski.

  • @rigor
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    242 months ago

    You will always be fighting an uphill battle in the academia of the imperial core. Global North historians in particular are on the front line of anti-socialist narratives. Of all disciples, the narratives of hustorians are probably the most powerful propaganda against radical though in the imperial core. Keep in mind that your professor is likely not sympathetic to leftwing thought, let alone socialism. This is compounded by the fact that even if they where, the structure of western academia makes it almost impossible to be a genuine Marxist that is critical of society. You won’t get grants, promotions, etc.

    Just know that you did your best to inform them, and don’t waste your energy any further. Don’t expect that professor to listen to reason or to genuinely consider your sources. As soon as you are outside the imperial narrative, they dismiss your opinion and sources as fringe. Why? Well, if they engaged honestly, they would have to change their mind.

    Try to concentrate your energy on anything that will produce results and benefit you and the mouvement. Read, stay healthy, educate yourself and others. Organize if you can.

  • Anarcho-Bolshevik
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    He goes on to cite Timothy Snyder who said that the most persecuted European minority at the time were Soviet Poles.

    Seriously? I must have squinted for nearly a minute when I read this. How does he know that they were even more persecuted than Jews and Roma? Even more than Poles outside of Soviet Eurasia?

    They made no efforts to provide relief

    That’s a lie! Read № 144. Decree of Politburo of the CC VCP(b) or even R. W. Davies’s & Stephen G. Wheatcroft’s The Years of Hunger for evidence that the Bolsheviks supplied food aid to Ukrainians. Likewise, the Ukrainian SSR had a substantial number of Russians, many of whom starved in 1932–1933, which only makes the claim that the famine was motivated by chauvinism harder to believe.

    I also wish to add that the Ukrainian SSR suffered from drought, plant disease and pest infestations. While technically those would not invalidate the claim that the Kremlin was, at minimum, criminally negligent, demanding that the educator include those reasons would not have been outrageous either. I’m mature enough to admit that the famines in Java, Vietnam, and the Netherlands can’t be blamed entirely on the Axis, so antisocialists have no excuse for insisting that the famine of 1932–1933 was completely our faults.

    He said that the soviets had a stockpile to feed the Ukrainians but chose not to.

    Yet another lie! Look here:

    The grain stocks article documented that the Soviet regime accumulated grain stocks during 1932 and then distributed them as famine relief in 1933. It was a response to an unpublished paper by a Russian scholar that claimed that the USSR had large stocks that it withheld, which turned out not to be true.

    The Soviets were deeply (and rightfully) worried about an anticommunist reinvasion. They had better things to do with their time than famish their own people just ’cause.

    There was not enough food in the Nazi camps so the prisoners hoarded food and fought each other over it, there wasn’t enough food in Ukraine so people hid it from each other.

    False equivalence. See here:

    Snyder’s claims that the USSR maintained large exports and withheld reserves are central to his book’s argument, which views the 1933 famine as essentially the same as the Holocaust. If the regime reduced exports and distributed millions of tons of food from reserves as famine relief, then the image of the Soviet man-made famine is not correct. The Nazis in World War II obviously did not send millions of tons of food relief to alleviate conditions in the concentration camps. The famine affected most of the country, including 40 million people in towns dependent on a rationing system, which also distinguishes the Soviet case from the Holocaust.

    Emaciation was merely one of the many means that the Axis deployed against its opponents. Other means included fusillades (remember Babi Yar), mêlée weapons, explosives, fire, involuntary experimentation, overworking, drowning, heights, motor vehicles, and (most infamously) poison. Sometimes the Fascists explicitly encouraged their enemies to attempt suicide, too.

    He then conflated Israeli nationalism and Ukrainian nationalism, that what happened to the Jews fuels Israel and what happened with the famine fuels Ukraine.

    No. The Zionist ruling class does not care about Shoah survivors, and the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Shoah; one unpopular mufti isn’t enough to establish a collective culpability. The Zionist ruling class exploits the Shoah for neocolonial purposes, not out of concern or love for Jews.

    if you opposed policy of the British nothing would really happen to you.

    Possibly NSFL link.

    • @PolandIsAStateOfMind
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      the most persecuted European minority at the time were Soviet Poles.

      We were ruthlessly persecuted into best 44 years in our entire 1000 year history. We still never forgiven Soviets for this, or for literally saving the life of everyone here from nazis.

  • @Packet
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    202 months ago

    I do not have any words to express my thoughts.

    I relate a lot to you, thing being that a migrant Russian communist cannot express his thoughts freely. Having majority Ukrainian friendgroup doesn’t help a bit. Fucking hell, I feel the dread that was upon you when you exited the class. Had the same thing happening to me when the prof spoke about how the WWII started, bringing up the division of Poland and oh so horrible words of his on soviets.

    Liberals are truly something. Hope all goes well for ya.

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      92 months ago

      He also talked about the division of Poland during our Holocaust weeks but did not talk about why it happened in the first place, he described it as the Soviets and Nazis “agreeing” to invade Poland at the same time. When we learned about the Jedwabne massacre he tried to subtly blame the Soviets for it too. It was… weird. This class is a nightmare and not what I thought it was going to be like at all, I thought it would be a deep dive on what is and isn’t genocide but that isn’t the case at all. It’s very surface level, especially with this famine. Unlike other weeks we were given no external readings, only those websites. So one chapter from the Kiernan Blood and Soil book and two barely anything websites. Cool. I knew right away this week would be bad but I could never predict it would be this bad. Literally making fun of a scholar’s looks, thats a new low.

      I’m sorry you are facing similar problems, I wish nobody had to go through it.

        • @SpaceDogsOPM
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          82 months ago

          Not a damn thing said about that! It’s just the same “the Soviets and Nazis are the same” type lecturing. He just talked about the nonaggression pact and then the “joint” invasion with no context given as to why these things happened. When he uses the word “joint” it implies the Nazis and Soviets were marching through Poland as friends, it’s fucking weird.

    • @Jennie
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      82 months ago

      I am stealing this meme lol

  • @deathtoreddit
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    152 months ago

    Jaysus Christ, much more “shitreactionarysays” vibe than all the other posts there combined

    On the other hand, it’s Mike Davis not

    Mark Davis

    You got me confused for a sec, lol…

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      82 months ago

      I swear my professor called him “Mark” but I may have misheard. Whoops, I’ll go edit that right away.

  • @Jennie
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    112 months ago

    I know I have said this previously but wow your professor is an idiot. I don’t blame you for not attending the student’s talk. I don’t doubt that there are issues with North Korea (no country is perfect obviously) but comparing them to Nazi Germany is fucking WILD, not to mention completely baseless and just seems like anti-Korean racism.

    Sorry you have to deal with this ignorant shit.

  • @Munrock
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    112 months ago

    Holy shit that sounds dystopian as fuck.

    Liberals usually pretend they’re acting from a place of objective neutrality and measured, scholarly interpretation of historical facts when they parrot their narrative. But it sounds like this professor’s really showing their bias, especially with the way they disparaged Mike Davis’ appearance. That fuckhead of a professor is probably enjoying having you sit through that echo chamber of insipid liberal bullshit.

    I’d reject any attempt by that professor to claim that they’re open to all ideas. He very clearly isn’t. If I were in your position and needed to ‘pass’ that farce of a history education, I’d probably go with malicious compliance. Cry performative crocodile tears and loudly lament about how the West is in an unsalvagable decline while the dirty commies and upstart former colonies are building a new world without the white man’s permission or involvement. The Western take on history is cope, and you can wipe out any sense of triumph of ideology your professor might be deluding himself into by reminding him that he’s getting a front row seat to the end of capitalism and liberalism, just as Marx (everybody guess what he looks like! hur hur) predicted.

  • @cfgaussian
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    You should call out your professor in class for lying and ask him why he chose to portray history according to a one sided narrative that dismisses alternative scholarship and is openly biased against communism. You should also ask why he thinks it appropriate to show a propaganda movie that glorifies literal Nazis of the Azov battalion and not at the very least offer the other side’s viewpoint on the events as well. Demand that the class watch Russian documentaries on the battle of Mariupol such as this one as well if they have to watch Ukrainian propaganda bullshit. By the way, hateful russophobe Timothy Snyder’s garbage historical revisionism has been debunked even by bourgeois scholars.

    • @DamarcusArt
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      102 months ago

      In a class full of True Believers, Op would only be shouted down. This isn’t an academic environment, it’s a propaganda mill dressing itself as one. If OP were to actually debunk the professor, the professor could just come back at them with another (even more unreliable) source, and because the professor is the “authority” in the room, OP wouldn’t be believed at all. Especially since the professor is keen to use emotional manipulation to support their bullshit. And if the professor couldn’t tolerate OP doing this, they could be kicked out of class entirely, or even kicked out of the university.

      Sadly, it’s just better to hold their tongue and vent here, Western intelligentsia have had their heads stuck up their asses for so long they think everything smells like their own farts, so debating the bullshit ideas they peddle is just a one way trip to getting kicked out or failing the course. I try to think about it like this: When the revolution comes, these are some the people who will be first against the wall, class traitors providing ammo for the bourgeoisie’s manipulative false history.

      • @cfgaussian
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        it’s just better to hold their tongue and vent here

        Sorry but i don’t agree with that.

        Better to be shouted down than to let this indoctrination occur unchallenged. If at least one person has the courage to openly call it out as propaganda and lies that may sow some doubts in other students there who could go on to look deeper into what the actual truth is. Group think and intimidation is how these liars and distorters of history maintain their monopoly on the narrative. Getting kicked out of a course that is nothing but indoctrination anyway is no big loss. Threats to be kicked out of university just for having a different viewpoint would be empty bluffs, you can make a big fuss and threaten to sue the shit out of them for that, and as institutions universities don’t want to deal with that kind of bad PR.

        Of course at the end of the day it’s their personal decision if they want to speak up, but i know i couldn’t just let that shit slide without at least making it clear that dissent to the narrative that they are trying to peddle still exists.

        It’s not about convincing the professors who are already hardened in their views and whose job it is to serve the bourgeois indoctrination machine. The point is to show other potentially like-minded or on-the-fence students who are intimidated and afraid to speak up or questions the narrative that they are not alone in their doubts or their contrary views. A rock slide can start with a single pebble, but if no one takes the first step and no one has the courage to speak out, then how is change ever going to happen? Unless you believe that there is no revolutionary potential to be found in students at all, and there is no point in even trying to agitate and educate among them, in which case why are you as a communist even there?

        • @DamarcusArt
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          82 months ago

          Those are very good points, though I will admit when it comes to pol-sci students specifically I massively doubt their revolutionary potential. These are the future propagandists against the revolution in training, they are very unlikely to challenge the western narrative unless they already had doubts before starting their course. Though at the same time, those people do exist, and encouraging them to not just accept every claim the professor makes could help them not just “check out” and accept the western status quo because it is easier.

          I’m just doubtful it will have much effect beyond Spacedogs getting reprimanded by their professor or the school, or being labelled as “troublemaker” and being blacklisted. Few people will listen to someone who was either kicked out or pressured into dropping out, but they will listen to a professor with a degree, this is biding time, as far as I can tell. Not every situation is an appropriate one to challenge the status quo, and on their “home turf” while they hold all the power in the situation, the intelligentsia are at their most invulnerable. I’m just not convinced that actively speaking out about these lies aggressively will do anything other than cause harm. Of course, there are sneakier ways, like asking honest questions and making the professor run their own claims to their logical conclusions, and I would encourage that sort of behaviour much more, but always contradicting a professor is a great way to just get failed or disciplined for no real benefit.

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      2 months ago

      I should have specified, the Mariupol movie isn’t being screened at the school so suggesting the movie you linked wouldn’t be worth it. I would love to call this shit out but I’m already on thin ice with this professor and i truly fear what would happen if I spoke out, some administrative guy already knows a student had problems with the OUN display so I don’t know what will happen if I push further. I wish we did a deeper, more nuanced, dive into the famine but he really was just pushing a one sided narrative, with only one quote from someone saying it wasn’t intentional. That’s so embarrassing. Sometimes I feel like this class treated the Nazis better than the Soviets. When it comes to many debunking of Snyder, do you have the sources for that? I know Blood Lies by Grover Furr but are there any, more accepted, critiques?

      • @cayde6ml
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        62 months ago

        I’m not trying to be a douchebag, but I urge you to call the professor out on his lies. Reading your posts about the horseshit is making me violently angry, I couldn’t even stomach if the Professor made a single one of these comments or lies.

        • @Giyuu
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          52 months ago

          No don’t do this. Especially not in front of the class. It’s not time for them to risk their career prospects (and future livelihood in a brutal capitalist society). As horrible as it is, you have to endure this to get to where you need to be to help more people, since OP said they want to teach Marxist History.

          The best thing to do is to just endure. If there are any opportunities for group study or projects, maybe they can discuss with other students about what the truly really is (in a non debate manner - like an actual conversation). Or at the end of the year if a paper is required they can write a debunking paper/ one that challenges the material if they feel the professor won’t fail them for that.

          But do not cause conflict/disruption in the class. You have to lay low, and if you can plant a seed of doubt in some other students minds. In fact I’d say it would be best if the professor knew absolutely nothing about any Marxist political leanings.

          • @SpaceDogsOPM
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            22 months ago

            Or at the end of the year if a paper is required they can write a debunking paper/ one that challenges the material if they feel the professor won’t fail them for that.

            This is actually exactly what I do. Every time there’s a paper assignment for class I feel safe writing something that goes against the liberal grain. I also try to speak up during office hours rather than class because there’s a least a semblance of privacy (not so much anymore). Papers are weird though, as sometimes topics are assigned or you can come up with your own as long as the professor approves. So far, even with assigned topics I do try to make it related to Marxism even a little bit (most of the time not explicitly saying it but touching on the themes). My most recent paper for political science I had to compare Putin and Xi Jinping when it comes to international relations (how their countries under their leadership behave on the global stage) and I did my best to not fear monger which contradicts the common narrative. For this history class we can choose to write about any topic as long as it’s related to genocide, I chose the Donbas and I’m sticking by that decision.

            I know people want me to speak up during class and I get it, I really do, but I just can’t. Maybe in the near future I will be able to but for now I will keep my head down. I’m not as strong as everyone else here.

    • @GaryLeChat
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      22 months ago

      Hey comrade, do you know if that video is only in German? I’d like to watch but I feel like being able to understand the words could add to it.

      • @cfgaussian
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        2 months ago

        Unfortunately I haven’t found that specific documentary in another language yet, though I did find this excerpt from it in Russian with English subtitles.

        Sorry for linking a video that’s only in German, it was just the first video that came to mind when i was trying to give an example, what i was trying to show is that you can find documentaries made by the other side as well that tell a very different story. If you search on Russian sites or alternative video platforms like Odysee (RT Documentary has a channel there that posts some really good stuff) you will find a lot of content on the topic, and if you’re lucky some of it may even be captioned in English.

        If you have trouble knowing how or where to search maybe make a post asking for more similar content on this topic? i’m sure there are comrades, especially if they speak Russian, who can recommend some good videos.

        For instance i’ve found this and this, only in Russian though, no subtitles yet.

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      72 months ago

      I have been mostly focusing on my psychology classes right now as I have an exam coming up. But I still have to pay a lot of attention since this history class has bi-weekly quizzes and an end of term paper.

  • @DamarcusArt
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    102 months ago

    Is it possible you can make an anonymous complaint to the university about your professor? If he’s willing to use unreliable sources and emotional manipulation in his classes. You don’t need to explicitly say that he’s wrong, just that you don’t appreciate him using unreliable sources and you do not feel safe voicing these concerns in front of him as he doesn’t tolerate dissenting opinions or discussion.

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      112 months ago

      I don’t think it’s possible for me to do that, unfortunately. Even if I stayed anonymous, fake email and everything, if I sent a complaint it would definitely come back to me, how? Because my professor is already aware of me being a bit of a black sheep, if he knows somebody complained he would know it was me and I don’t want to deal with outcome. I know it is selfish but I just can’t bring myself to do it. Theres also the fact that the school itself will probably not care at all. They seem fairly aligned so I don’t think it would go anywhere. I’m sorry.

      • @cfgaussian
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        2 months ago

        As someone probably a fair bit older than you and more jaded to these kinds of individuals, i’ll be fully honest even though this may sound harsh and say that i think you’re letting yourself be too intimidated by this guy. When you’re young persons in positions of authority seem very unassailable and intimidating but if you understand the system that they’re operating in and how to navigate it so that you avoid serious consequences to yourself, they’re really not.

        There is a definite limit to what they can do even if you royally piss them off. Do you think you are the first student to disagree with their professor? I guarantee you, if you did speak up you would not be the first or the last student to ever openly contradict their professor.

        It’s just a question of how important your grade is this class is to you, if your professor is indeed so petty as to determine your grade based on whether you agree with him or not, which to be fair a lot of them do. Then again, in my experience no one ever looks at your grades again once you actually have your degree.

      • @DamarcusArt
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        62 months ago

        Yeah, that’s unfortunate. That was the main reason I recommended it be anonymous, but you’re right, your professor seems like the sort to single you out and “punish” you for speaking out against them, even if they can’t directly link it back to you.

        I guess just keep your head down and your mouth shut and finish this course and then you never have to deal with people like this again. Why are you studying this stuff anyway, if you don’t mind me asking, what sort of future do you see yourself having by completing this course?

        • @SpaceDogsOPM
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          102 months ago

          Why are you studying this stuff anyway, if you don’t mind me asking, what sort of future do you see yourself having by completing this course?

          Good question. I was originally doing a double major in Psychology and Political Science but switch Psych for History, why? Because my psychology courses are pissing me off with how they tend to avoid the connection between certain psychological issues and socioeconomics. I also just feel so strongly about history and political science that I decided to switch my degree around. I’m planning on getting my PhD (maybe I’ll do a masters in psychology later down the line just to stack my knowledge). Getting some sot of degree is important in this day and age and I have the privilege of pursuing one without too much difficulty that many others are facing. I want to be a professor when I’m done with school and hopefully be able to teach proper history and political science. At my school there are, of course, many different courses within a department that focus on different disciplines (for example there is a political science class that completely focuses on Liberalism while the current history course I am studying is all about genocide, next semester I will be taking a class on Canadian history and history of politics) so I want to be a professor that teaches Marxism (my political science professor says I would be allowed to) and history related to communism. I know it’s far fetched but stranger things have happened. I know I cannot change the system from within it, but degrees are powerful and I can work to change the system outside of it (working with organizations for example) while also educating those within it, if that makes sense? There are only a handful of great professors here in Canada and I would like to add to that. I don’t plan on being a leader of a revolution (I’m no Lenin or Castro), but having that degree and level of knowledge gives people leverage and I am sure it could be helpful. I hope this is all making sense, sometimes I have trouble explaining my thoughts.

          • @DamarcusArt
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            112 months ago

            Ah, that sounds like a noble goal, try and set things right and go against the grain. It might be nice to write books as well as lecture, the same way Parenti did. Providing education to others is always a worthwhile endeavor. I just hope you can stomach the extreme liberalness of your coursework before then. :)

            • @SpaceDogsOPM
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              92 months ago

              Yes, exactly! Just like Parenti. I will definitely publish books as well. I believe this experience will “harden my heart” so to speak, not in the sense of losing empathy or compassion since I think that very important, but in a way that I wont be nearly as emotionally effected by all of the stuff I am experiencing in academia.

              • @DamarcusArt
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                112 months ago

                Yeah, if you understand that academia is basically just people being paid to ignore reality and cheerlead for capitalism this early on it will mean you’ll never have a “rug pull” moment where it all comes crashing down. Best of luck for your future endeavors!

    • @SpaceDogsOPM
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      72 months ago

      It’s a nightmare. An ACTUAL nightmare 😭