I understand that some people are skeptical about bourgeois governments policies of mandatory vaccines, but thinking that every decision from up top is unreasonable is a terrible metaphysical take. Mandatory vaccines has been in effect in China, Laos, DPRK, Cuba and Vietnam. That alone should realize on what side these anti-vaxxers are in.
Some sectors of the bourgeoisie also would benefit from a vaccinated population because it would slow the labor shortages of their shitty economy, which means some bourgeois sectors are actually wanting the people to be fully able to work without interruption through vaccination.
I say some sectors because there are obviously other sectors which has benefited a lot from the spread of the pandemic, and therefore wouldn’t think twice of promoting the astroturfing of vaccine and COVID denial. Such is the case of digital retailers (Amazon), pornographic empires (MindGeek), bourgeois social networks (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter), video sharing websites (mainly YouTube), streaming services (Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+, HBO Max), etc.
Contrary to what the anti-vaxxers usually say about “Big Pharma promoting vaccines”, the most profitable companies actually benefit with the pandemic, as we have seen the ten richest billionaires double their profits since the pandemic. What they’re advocating, whether they are aware or not, benefits highly the bourgeoisie.
But of course “Big Pharma” profits from selling vaccines privately or through government deals, we live in a commodity-producing society, this shouldn’t be a surprise to anybody. To eat something as essential as food, we need to buy it, which gives profits to supermarket chains and the food industry in general. To live and exist in a capitalist society, you need to inevitably consume and buy products. No one in their sane mind would tell you to boycott buying food to not promote “Big Food” or something. The same goes for vaccines, which has demonstrably proven that they are effective by the decrease in death rates, although they couldn’t prevent contagion efficiently, which in fact benefits the big pharmaceutical industries indeed since boosters and more vaccines would be needed. But this doesn’t mean that mandatory vaccines aren’t necessary to mitigate the large-scale deaths we’ve seen in 2020 and beginning of 2021.
In short,
Fight for mandatory vaccinations, fight petty-bourgeois vacillations
(this was originally taken from a comment in response to a radioactive take from comrade @pimento@lemmygrad.ml)
I’ve witnessed these brainworms personally, living in the US, where anti-vaxx propaganda is incredibly strong via outlets like fox news. My parents nearly died from covid, and 3/4ths of my extended family have caught it at some point, and were out of commission for weeks. My stepmom has serious long-term effects from it: she feels a lot weaker since she caught it, and can’t smell or taste as well as she used to. Two friends have family members that have died from it, and told me that anti-mask family members won’t go to their funerals.
These reactionaries pushing anti-vaxx propaganda are killing people, and they simply don’t care, because their freedom is more important than grandma. Over 900k deaths so far, mostly elderly, infirm, or people with compromised immune systems. The reaction of even “leftists” like Corbyn and Max Blumenthal, who are pushing liberalism under the facade of “opposition to big pharma” to these deaths is truly despicable.
And still when I go to the grocery store, 80% of people aren’t even wearing masks, and whine like spoiled children whenever anyone tells them to. These are people that have never been told “no”, their entire lives, who value their personal freedom over the lives of not just strangers, but even people in their own family. There’s a line in catch-22 where yossarian says that “everyone is trying to kill him”, and people think he’s crazy for it. That’s how I feel every time I risk going home to see friends and family.
As communists we must oppose this slaughter / culling of the weakest members of our society, under any guise it comes under. We should always place lives above personal freedoms.
To eat something as essential as food, we need to buy it, which gives profits to supermarket chains and the food industry in general. To live and exist in a capitalist society, you need to inevitably consume and buy products. No one in their sane mind would tell you to boycott buying food to not promote “Big Food” or something.
This is such a key point. Just because we disagree with the exploitation involved in the making and selling of medicine under capitalism, does not mean we oppose medicine. If anything its the withholding (esp via vaccine patents) and selling of that medicine to the highest bidder that we oppose, when it should be given to the global south who need it yesterday.
Hell, I would stamp down on “freedom of speech” and end all fascist propaganda or, in this case, anti-vax propaganda (though they usually go hand in hand). Well, if any communist party or communist coalition of parties were in power and I had that authority. But yeah, agreed with much of what you said here.
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@pimento@lemmygrad.ml I love you comrade, but sometimes you make really awful takes lmao
I was afraid that his pro-Russia outlets (which tend to be filled with Duginists and LarRouchites, whether he realizes it or not) would get to him.
@felipeforte@lemmygrad.ml There is nothing wrong with mandatory vaccines or bourgeois democratic governments instituting them or instituting policies to get people to take vaccine shots.
Hell, even Communist Parties, or SolidNet CPs, are fighting for policies such as what you described. There is nothing wrong with this. Fighting for a sense of reform in the short-term is okay so long as the long-term (revolution) is kept in mind.
Reformism is bad, of course, but fighting for reforms in the immediate term, as the old Bolsheviks used to do, is okay as the point is to prepare and implement the long-term goal (revolution) over time.
All Marxist-Leninist, workers’ parties, and other Marxist groups should want a government with the power to institute such policies, even if it is bourgeois; the alternative, as has been shown time and time again, is a pseudo-scientific fascist and Nazi ultra-right force (probably backed my many special interests and oligarchs) that probably believe in eugenics.
It is the difference between a bourgeois Ukraine before Maidan in 2014 and an increasingly fascist Ukraine after 2014.
Sorry if this is a bit controversial, but many CPs around the globe are fighting against anti-vax attitudes and policies and that’s especially important in countries such as the United States (and I presume Brazil as well).
So it is possible for a government that does not even have the power to institute vaccine mandates to have the power to implement fascist policies like concentration camps? I’m sorry, I just am not following that logic.
And historically speaking, that’s not true. The position of Marxist-Leninists has never been to want a bourgeois government to have more power. It’s the weakness and failure of this government that allows the communists to sweep in and take power.
Any example in history will show you this. The provisional government of 1917 in Russia. The failure of the Qing in China to resist outside forces. The annexation of France and invasion, then downfall of imperial Japan in WW2 which made French Indochina dysfunctional as a colonial government.Historically speaking, especially today, it is most definitely true that they may ally with certain bourgeois forces. Bourgeois forces are not fascist forces. See: Popular Front.
Sure, in certain situations perhaps. It was Marx’s principle that the proletariat should support a bourgeois revolution first, then a communist revolution could occur. This is what happened in 1917 with the february and october revolutions. I also believe there can be collaboration with a national bourgeoisie in the imperial periphery. But the key concept in these cases is that it is an alliance with a bourgeoisie that is not in power. When you talk about supporting a bourgeois government, necessarily this is a bourgeoisie that is currently in power. Collaboration between a ruling and oppressed class means avoiding revolution.
Bourgeois forces are not fascist forces
Bourgeois forces are fascist forces 100%. Fascism is liberalism in decay. It is when the ruling class foments race consciousness to avoid a communist revolution and make a bid for the top of the imperial hierarchy. It’s no wonder the captains of industry in Germany supported Hitler and helped the Nazis concentrate power.
Yes, but not all bourgeois forces are fascist. In addition, the communist party in Germany should have supported the Social-Democrats before Hitler could be installed in power and dissolve what little democracy there was in Weimar Germany. Even Mao sided many times with the Kuomintang.
To your other point previously: vaccine mandates are not giving bourgeois governments more power as they already have the power to do so.
Yes, but not all bourgeois forces are fascist.
Sure, I should have said fascist forces are bourgeois forces. In the case of China, we know the KMT was not in power, and Mao sided with them against Japanese invasion. So that is not a similar situation to western countries today.
Some argue that KPD should have formed a coalition with the SPD to stop Hitler. That’s not the same thing as support, because in that situation, both parties create a government that they both agree on. And this is what anticommunists say. They accuse the KPD of betraying democracy by not working with the SPD.
But I agree with Stalin. The SPD was not a real resistance to fascism. The SPD was closer aligned to fascism than people recognize. We know the meme. The social democrats killed Rosa Luxembourg. They supported the Freikorps. There’s a history of reasons why they could not be trusted. And in 1933, a coalition in parliament would not have been enough to stop the Nazis anyway.vaccine mandates are not giving bourgeois governments more power as they already have the power to do so.
They don’t have the power to do so. Not in the US. That’s why we don’t have them. Even Biden’s vaccine or test policy through OSHA was overruled by the supreme court.
It is quite similar.
How do you find it similar? It’s not at all similar. This quote from Mao in On Contradiction is important.
When imperialism launches a war of aggression against such a country, all its various classes, except for some traitors, can temporarily unite in a national war against imperialism. At such a time, the contradiction between imperialism and the country concerned becomes the principal contradiction, while all the contradictions among the various classes within the country (including what was the principal contradiction, between the feudal system and the great masses of the people) are temporarily relegated to a secondary and subordinate position.
In China, the form of the class struggle was objectively different. The principal contradiction was between the imperialist forces and the nation as a whole. To say this is similar to countries in the imperial core, who wage wars of aggression on other countries is laughable. It’s like comparing a butcher to a pig.
So it is possible for a government that does not even have the power to institute vaccine mandates to have the power to implement fascist policies like concentration camps?
Where did you get this from?
From what they said. Makan said the alternative to a government that does not have the power to institute vax mandates is a “pseudo-scientific fascist and Nazi ultra-right force”
“I don’t wanna support the rich people in Big Pharma!” Solution: Sinovac
“I don’t like the mRNA vaccine!” Solution: Sinovac
Regardless of other (real or imagined) considerations, the current level of testing of long term safety of vaccines, any vaccine, is insufficient simply because enough time hasn’t passed.
Recall that it once took 27 years for the “authorities” to rule out that a vaccine was causing another deadly disease as side effect. Why are people feeling so safe about these inadequately tested vaccines is not something I understand, but let them choose.
Mandates, whatever their excuse, are pure tyranny. Individuals must be free to make their own choice about what goes inside their bodies.
EDIT : Grammar
