[Transcript]
Charming people. /s
I can tell you from experience that Cowbee is by far the most abusive person to argue with online I have ever encountered. And I love arguing online so I’ve met a lot. I blocked them a long time ago and seeing them in a screenshot still makes me shudder. Terrible humans
Cowbee is frustrating, but he’s easy to counter once you realise his spiel.
Extremeists rely heavily on gish-gallop, bombarding you with nonsense. You need to focus on the weakest claim, point out the bias or flaw in the source, and play for neutrality and impartiality; they’ll crumble every single time.
For example, when presented with an obviously biased source like Prolewiki or Redsails, or whatever copy-paste nonsense they have, ask for something more neutral and professional in tone, such as Reuters, AP News, or a neutral article.
You are biased, your source is biased, I am intimidated by BBC, here is a far more reliable source from suckingstrongmansdick.slop that shows the T-14 Armata will solve world hunger.
Or something along those lines. I try from time to time. But am very quick to give up. So I do my part by making fun of them and donate to a good cause, which somehow makes them sooooooo angry. I wonder why.
(Source.)
I have witnessed some truly nauseating toxicity on webshites like Argue With Everyone (rot in piss), 4chan, Facebook, and so on, and to call @Cowbee@lemmygrad.ml, of all people, ‘by far the most abusive person to argue with online I have ever encountered’ suggests that this user has not been on the Internet for a long time.
Oh, and I love the dullard who ridiculed us for disliking the BBC, never mind mediocre capitalist media like Reuters and the Associated Press. /c/MeanwhileOnGrad, you fucking suck.
I love how libs find it abusive when people politely point out basic facts of the situation to them.
Thanks so much everyone for your kind words! I didn’t expect to wake up to such a shower of support and warmth!
🤗
Also, for anyone wondering, the latest hate post at this time has 24 comments and a split of 63 upvotes, 5 downvotes, while this post has 71 upvotes, 0 downvotes, and 61 comments. Just helps put in perspective that the cryptofash on MwOG are far smaller in number than we are, especially considering MwOG is more broadly federated and yet has lower engagement. It doesn’t sound like much, but it does help explain why they are getting more and more desperate over there.
help explain why they are getting more and more desperate over there.
that’s probably why piefed became a thing; fewer people will get the chance to learn when they’re steered away from lemmy at the next reddit/facebook protest.
Yep, good point! Also, the creator of PieFed instance-banned me from PieFed.social for debunking PJ a bit too hard, haha. It splits the FOSS reddit-style base into communist-friendly and anti-communist.
PJ
that’s the 4th time someone referenced this user in a response in the last month or so and i struggle to understand why since my only interaction with them was easily dismissable because he threw a tantrum calling me a fascist; they seem like an ordinary western brain wormed compatible leftist to me based on what i could find.
Prominent social fascist, terminally online and posts a ton.
Yeah it’s a small group of very noisy crypto-fascists and a some lookie-loos.
Their tiny size is why they are so desperate.
I honestly don’t know. I’ve never met people like them in real life or even online. I don’t understand what’s going on in their heads. I’m not sure how much of it is conscious, intentional anticom wrecker behavior and how much is just unconscious/unexamined/etc. They may each be there for different motivationsl/psychological reasons from the others. Very odd birds.
I won’t pretend to know, but they definitely exist IRL too.
Cowbee derangement syndrome.
Red Sails and ProleWiki aren’t sources, lol. They contain and list sources. I may reference sources used in Prolewiki entries, or recommend Red Sails articles for theory, or a ProleWiki entry for a starting point on something, but not as a primary source. Also, I’ve never seen goat or an alt of goat make me “crumble” using the strategy described here. Even if they tried it, it’s easy to point out that neutrality doesn’t really exist to begin with, and that I do frequently use western media (what they mean by neutral) anyways.
Also nice of them to throw in some homophobia at the end!
Looking at this from the bright side, having dedicated haters like that shows how incredibly successful your agitation and conversations with libs have been.
Every single successful agitator that I know have haters that always come back in their comment section. Keep up the good work, Cowbee!
I agree wholeheartedly! The fact that the haters are both so angry, and are also deeply incorrect about facts and rhetoric (as much as I hate debate-as-bloodsport), points more to the success of my tactics. Many people have reached out privately thanking me for helping them see a new perspective, which outweighs any irrational hatred I get from the MwOG crowd. Thanks, comrade!
says pages of bs they pulled out of nowhere cowbee: “here is proof of all the ways you are wrong, with sources” wow so abusive
Abusive? lol. They hate him because they can’t argue with him, they know they will lose every time. He has the advantage of being 1) Factually correct; 2) Aware enough and well read enough to know the history, understand theory, and back it all up with sources even they can’t deny; and 3) Smart enough not to fall for debatebro tactics, just maintaining a calm, reasonable and sincere disposition. They simply can’t “win,” and worse, they can’t even appear to win with their usual dishonest and bad faith rhetorical methods.
That’s why they say he’s “abusive,” because they’re so distraught by having no way to come out of any argument with him without looking like fools, not because Cowbee says anything negative about them, but because there’s nothing they can do to keep from revealing either their ignorance or their dishonesty when facing someone with those 3 attributes. In other words, they always come away looking like fools because anti-communists are fools (and that includes any “leftist” who uses “tankie” as a pejorative).
The only thing they have left to do with people like Cowbee is ban them from their spaces for spurious reasons, refuse to actually engage with him and straight up lie, making up horseshit whole cloth like this shitstain did in the OP. The blatant lying always comes with the risk of someone checking though. You can insist that water isn’t wet but as soon as someone runs their hand under a faucet, or decides to walk outside when it’s raining, the lie is seen for what it is. And the fact is, anyone who actually engages with him, even libs who are wrong but who aren’t so low as to stoop to flagrant fabrication, knows that Cowbee is one of the most chill, even-keel, and sincere posters on the entire fediverse.
“Abusive.” Those pathetic little liar weasels.
It also implies the various most Reactionary parts, involved in doxxing to harassment of even the most marginalized, (of the internet) is somehow better. “Most Abusive”, liberals cannot be serious.
That was a very sweet writeup comrade, thank you! Paradoxically, when they act in such a dishonest way so nakedly, it helps reinforce that what I am doing is correct. It would really bother me if their points had real merit and teeth to them, but they treat me like Flat Earthers treat anyone with basic knowledge of the Earth itself.
You’re very welcome. And yes, not only is what you’re doing correct, it’s a veritable educational benefit to a lot of people, libs and communists alike. Whoever said posting can’t ever be praxis never saw the Cowbee method in action. I have no doubt you have planted orchards worth of anti-imperialist and Marxist seeds, even in the minds of some of your detractors. Don’t ever stop doing what you do, comrade!
Thanks! I’d certainly hesitate to call it praxis, but I do know that by doing what I’ve been doing, some more people have gone over to the left, and that makes me happy and the effort worth it!
💯
oh boy they did the “your sources are biased but mine aren’t” bit unironically and then accused us of doing the same
MY SIBLINGS IN MARX - ALL SOURCES ARE BIASED
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN UNBIASED SOURCE YOU NAIVE DULLARDS
WHAT DO YOU THINK A BIAS IS AAAAAHHHHHHH
Liberals truly believe their ideology is an objectively perfect system and all of their opponents are simply misinformed. They can’t fathom distinct political, economic, social interests and can only conceive of their opponents as either uneducated or lying.
They stem from the same Metaphysical origin that the religious do; literally the Enlightenment was full of religious people who attributed their ‘enlightened’ status to God or some sort. They are no different.
It just isnt an argument as well. Just cause a source is biased doesnt mean its incorrect. The truth may just coincide with those biases. Unless you can prove that they are also unfactual whether or not a source may be biased is irrelevant
Media literacy education was already shite, but guess who’s driving it in the BlueAnon “post-truth era?” The military-industrial complex.
New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.
This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
Cowbee? Abusive??? I feel like every comment I’ve seen from them has been patient and calm, genuinely thought this would be a hexbear bit until I saw the comm
I have dedicated haters.
Doing a search on /c/MeanwhileOnGrad, they seem almost obsessed with you, yet they have said almost nothing at all about me. (I wonder why.)
It’s probably because I am predominantly on my Lemmy.ml account, so they can see me more. That’s about it, really.
c/meanwhileongrad is really more c/meanwhileonlemmy.ml. At this point their goal is to get instances to defederate from the third “tankie” in the “triad.”
What gets me is that .ml isnt an explicitly communist instance. So i don’t fully understand how its part of the triad. I am also curious about when they will turn on db0
They turned on db0/dbzer0 7 months ago.
- Dbzer0 admin casually defending Uyghur genocide denial because “libs worse”, yikes
- Does lemmy.ml own db0? db0 user denies the Uyghur genocide, begins to backtrack that maybe there are human rights abuses, and then immediately backs off as soon as lemmy.ml admin, Davel, steps in.
- Tankie bar, db0, will remove your comments and ban you if you criticise lemmy.ml admin, Davel, for denying the Uyghur genocide
- When the tankie bar, db0, is pushed about communists purging peasants, Davels swoops in with dehumanisation. Also, if you bring up the Holodomor then you’re a nazi.
- On Dbzer0, ‘harassing mods’ is when you criticize the top admin of .ml for responding to a Wiki link with a Lemmy search
- Dbzer0 admin claiming Uyghur genocide is ‘overblown and misrepresented’
- Dbzer0 admin asserts that Red Fascist states are “Actually Existing Socialism” and that Hexbear is preferable to .world and SJW
- Dbzer0 admin is ‘ashamed’ about ‘warfare’ between instances (read: .ml being criticized) as one of the tankie admins of .ml literally defends genocide and the socialist-crushing incident tankies were
- Dbzer0 admins have a little fight where db0 tells a user that they’re attracting too many tankies (exactly like I did to db0). They wonder why tankies are given more leeway than liberals
- The tankie takeover of dbzer0 continues
Man, i really need to check in more often, especially if they have already turned on the anarchists. I might need popcorn
Thank you
c/meanwhileongrad is really more c/meanwhileonlemmy.ml. At this point their goal is to get instances to defederate from the third “tankie” in the “triad.”
the phenomena mirrors the chauvinism of empire, honestly. Anything sovereign must be demonized.
It’s the sheer irrationality of it, too, both empire’s chauvanism and the generic anti-communism of MwOG.
Many of the users there insist that they aren’t anticommunists, only anti-Bolsheviks or ‘antitankies’ who arrived at the facile conclusion that the people’s republics never evolved into communism. Some of the users would even go so far as to argue that we are the anticommunists for defending states that (sometimes) suppressed ultraleftists. It’s a very unsophisticated way of thinking that is only mildly more complex than ‘I know you are but what am I’. (Although I do agree that the people’s republics could be too harsh on ultraleftists.)
The problem originates with a lack of theory, and the fact that you can’t just tell them to “read theory,” because they won’t. They don’t understand what class is or what socialism looks like in concrete reality, they coast by on vibes and pop-culture ideas of socialism. The difficulty rests in being able to explain that socialism is a mode of production by which public ownership is the principal aspect, and the working classes control the state, and doing so in a concise yet detailed enough manner that actually gets the ideas across solidly. I used to quote theory to try, but that never worked unless they had already read some theory, which is very few anti-communists.
Then there are the die-hard social fascists like PJ that call any socialist state “fascist,” and just mock you for providing reciepts.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more patient person in an online forum.
Cowbee fuckin rules and is the most patient person I’ve ever encountered online. I lose my mind within nanoseconds of interacting with liberals/reactionaries but Cowbee is out here responding with entire pamphlets. Just an absolute posting master with a mental resilience far beyond mine. I always get dismissive of brainless libs/chuds and tell them to jump in a hole or something.
I mean I also appreciate simply saying “suck my turds you ignorant liberal” since there’s also an art to that. Cowbee is their absolute nightmare and yet he’s just this well read polite communist lmao
The secret to the pamphlets is that after a few years of this, I’ve already responded to 90% of topics anyways, so I just look to what I’ve already answered and tweak it a bit, haha. The resilience bit is more just me holding to the idea that if I’m actually wrong, then they should be able to prove so, and they haven’t yet.
Thanks comrade!
That reminds me of how Marx himself seems to have seen through time and has a response to nearly every argument, despite being dead for 150 years. But that probably means no one has come up with a better argument in over a century. Like sometimes if I see someone misunderstanding how labor creates value, all you have to do is look at Capital Volume 1, Chapter 1…on page 1.
Yep! It’s also dialectical. When the basis is solid, it creates its own opposition in the sense that those ideologies at risk relentlessly try to tear it to shreds. This, however, strengthens the basis by forcing it to acknowledge and counter these new accusations. Sometimes Marxists like Lenin carry Marxism forward, but do so by affirming its basis and extending it by applying it to new conditions. Marxism is a creative, living science, which makes it infinitely adaptable and extraordinarily resiliant to critique.
Cowbee has the patience of a saint. Not once have i seen them put forward anything but the most calm and reasonable arguments supported by verifiable facts.
Hell yeah, comrade Cowbee appreciation post. Absolute champ.
Thanks!
always like running into Cowbee in the posting mines
Likewise comrade 🫡
Their evil biased tankie sources vs our objective free press without an agenda.
@Cowbee@hexbear.net I think you’re a very nice person. You are deeply patient with these swine and make a genuine effort to not just provide education but to try to get the other person to understand you correctly, despite what is usually their best efforts not to. You are easily the nicest person to the chuds who enter the den of Hexbears, these people are desperately thin skinned to consider you remotely abusive.
I have yet to see any Gishes being Galloped nor your utter destruction at the hands of AP News citations. Not being aware that Redsails isnt itself a source but the sources within the writings on the page absolutely are notwithstanding, I dont think this is the brilliant rhetorical fencing strategy he thinks. Saying one source is biased and the other isn’t requires proof of both. Also just cause you’re biased doesnt mean you’re wrong and juat cause you’re unbiased doesnt mean you’re right, so its a senseless argument to make anyway unless you can point out that these biases also make them incorrect. These modern day Athenians who love debate so much are really really bad at it and fundamentally misunderstand how it works
Thank you! And yea, the point on bias you made is spot-on. Bias doesn’t mean something is wrong, just that it was made from a certain viewpoint, and that the information presented conforms to that viewpoint in presentation. Bias can be helpful for identifying weak spots, but someone presenting factual information inevitably has their views color how they present it.
I hate how online debate bros dont understand how debate works, pointing out a source is flawed isnt pointing out the argument is flawed, just the basis for it, the conclusion can still be sound and regardless, must still be addressed in an argument. A source claiming to be unbiased is also way less trustworthy in my eyes than one who admits to having a perspective theyre reporting from cause the ones claiming to be unbiased have already lied once cause there is no such thing as unbiased reporting.
Yep! Debate-as-bloodsport style liberals often make the most basic errors in media literacy, which comes with a whole host of issues. Media literacy itself is one of the most important tools of the modern era due to the sheer volume of information available.
why don’t we use unbiased sources like ap and reuters lmao
the most abusive person to argue with online
They are probably the most patient person in the fediverse at the very least
Yea lol, prob why they despise him.
