Absolutely not. It is important for what it is, but it is not material help. My argument was and continues to remain that China does not materially help Palestine

Uniting resistance groups isn’t “material help?” Humanitarian aid and diplomatic moves towards statehood isn’t “material help?” Support for the PLO isn’t material help?

Where? There is no evidence for this ever happening. You posted an article that says that the Diaper forces (famously reliable source of information) has said that Hamas uses Chinese guns. Chinese made guns, if you didn’t know, are fairly popular among resistance fighters everywhere because they are cheap. So were Soviet made guns back in the day. African warlords have them. China is funding African warlords as well?

Hamas uses weapons produced by the DPRK as well, are you arguing that they are getting black market DPRK weaponry as well? Hamas uses what it can get its hands on, yes, including a mix of first and second hand weaponry.

Did you read the press release? They did not stop the export of rare Earth elements because of their potential use in weaponry. And they didn’t do it because of Israel. Short of directly selling arms to the Diaper Forces, China conducts most types of trade with Isntreal.

China specifically restricts trade of rare Earths useful in making weaponry. Regardless of what the outward statements may be, they know that restricting rare Earths restricts weapons manufacturers.

The largest economy in the world cannot afford to spare political support for Palestine, eh? I guess countries that do support Palestine do not exist? The assertion that China would be blocked from world trade if they were to support Palestine is mind mindbogglingly inaccurate. Look at Qatar, a small country with an American military base on their soil. They are in no way shape or form independent. Their economy is tiny and they survive entirely on imports. And they have been funding Hamas for ages. You telling me if Qatar who’ve got America’s dick so far down their throat could do this, China couldn’t? At this point, even the Russians have done far more for Palestine than China. They significantly re-armed Iran and financed them so they could keep supporting Palestine.

And China is highly likely to be providing intelligence to Iran, donated 100 million to Gaza in humanitarian aid in 2025 alone, and has been doing far more than you believe.

Zilch. They have done nothing material whatsoever. They have not sent aid, in food or clothes. They have not sent weapons. They have not sanctioned Isntreal. They have however, sent their strongest words of condemnation along with thoughts and prayers. History will look back on China as enablers of the Palestinian genocide, as it will most of the world. But hey, they sent a strongly worded letter to the Isntreally embassy in Beijing which still continues to operate housing war criminals inside.

China has sent aid, hundreds of millions. They haven’t sanctioned the entity, but they have restricted sales of weaponry and undermined the US’s ability to support Israel.

This is not the first time China has betrayed other revolutionary causes internationally. They have even done so much as voting against the DPRK to sanction them at the UN. Repeatedly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1718 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2270

There would have been literally no consequences for China for blocking these. They have, in other instances, blocked similar resolutions, with no consequences whatsoever. Even if there were consequences, they wouldn’t be existential or even too detrimental.

China has consistently only ever veto’d at the security council if it is willing to intervene millitarily in order to protect the veto’d outcome. The PRC has veto’d sanctions on the DPRK, and has enforced that veto by increasing trade with the DPRK. The US Empire has never been stopped by a veto, such as when it was determined to stop shipping arms to Haiti, which the US subverted. China vetoing the UNSC declaration on Palestine would mean mobilizing its army to directly prevent the US’s plans for the region.

This is a pattern of behavior, and is not in the spirit of proletarian internationalism. It has been said that this is even a betrayal of proletarian internationalism. As much as 10 percent of the gross national production of the Soviet Union was diverted to the People’s Republic for almost a decade after the Chinese revolution, for free, to help the young project. This is not including countless engineers, doctors and scientists who were also sent over. Where are the Chinese scientists, doctors and advisors in Palestine?

Here they are in 2020 providing aid for COVID relief in Palestine and working with Palestinians to help set up good medical care. Here they are in 2024 providing humanitarian aid, before the 100 million number. China has been a strong friend of Palestine for decades.

Pretending that your favorite socialist project in the world aligns with your imaginary, perfect version that exists in your mind does nobody any favors. China has achieved a great deal and will achieve a great deal. Proletarian internationalism and the goodwill of communists elsewhere in the third world are not in that list.

I don’t pretend the PRC is a fantasy, perfect version. I also don’t lie about easily verifiable claims, like saying China hasn’t sent aid.

The point is not that China would face no consequences at all if they politically supported Palestine (They do not, by the way. As far as I know, they officially endorse the two state solution :vomit:). The point is that they wouldn’t do even so much as stopping trade with Israel for the very little consequences they would face. They wouldn’t even absorb such a minimal economic impact.

China supports the two-state solution not as a permanent solution, but the first step to the freedom of Palestine by getting Palestine legal recognition as a state.

They are capable of extending themselves and flexing their military when they feel like it. They sent their fleet to threaten Australia as a power play. They conduct military exercises in the South China sea. And they militarily threaten Taiwan province and the American military establishment there. Only when it suits them. I haven’t seen a Chinese fleet near Israel.

China is not threatening other countries, and China isn’t risking war with the west.

Overall, the idea that China is doing “nothing” for Palestine is just ultraleftism. They provide diplomatic support for statehood, send humanitarian aid, medical assistance, support Iran, are undermining imperialism and thus eroding Israel’s support base, and more. You’re acting like they are an active enemy of Palestine, rather than a steady ally that has varied in its levels of support.

Prominent social fascist, terminally online and posts a ton.

Yep! Debate-as-bloodsport style liberals often make the most basic errors in media literacy, which comes with a whole host of issues. Media literacy itself is one of the most important tools of the modern era due to the sheer volume of information available.

Yep, good point! Also, the creator of PieFed instance-banned me from PieFed.social for debunking PJ a bit too hard, haha. It splits the FOSS reddit-style base into communist-friendly and anti-communist.

deleted by creator

You’re continuing to undermine the significance of the Beijing Declaration, where Fatah and Hamas were brought closer together, and understating the significance of China’s sale of weaponry to Hamas and restrictions on rare Earths and vital components for weaponry to Israel and the US Empire. I am not washing aside the soviet union’s valiant efforts, but at the same time it could only do so thanks to its independence and self-sufficiency, which the PRC does not have yet. It’s no coincidence that self-reliance is a big part of the 15th Five Year Plan, which gives the PRC far more room to act on the international stage.

I too wish China was doing more, but I’m not going to pretend that they are doing nothing. Nor am I going to pretend that undermining imperialism has no connection to Palestinian liberation.

The soviet union, for all its merits, no longer exists, and Israel was still genocidal during its existence. Further, the idea that simple mediation is all the PRC does is blindness. Israel exists because of US support, and undermining US imperialism undermines Israel’s basis for existence. Further still, the PRC has been providing support behind the scenes, from intel in Iran to Hamas using many Chinese-made weaponry. As China becomes more self-reliant, it will be able to be more proactive in the internationalist struggle, but it is not that day.

That’s right, I’m evil 😈

Pretty sure that’s an internal assessment, not the professor saying that.

China has affirmed that Palestinians must control Palestine in their own state, and served as a vital mediator for the 2024 Beijing Declaration, where Fatah and Hamas were brought closer together and the resistance as a whole in Palestine came together to collaborate more closely, alongside China. In the 2024 Beijing Declaration, which China was a core mediator for, it was declared that the resistance must not be disarmed.

China is contributing to a multi-polar world, which undermines Israel and supports Palestine. China’s position in the global stage facilitates south-south trade, which bypasses unequal exchange, where the global north maintains monopolies on high tech industries so as to consistently charge monopoly prices in exchange with the global south. China charges non-monopoly prices, and this is why exchange with China, alongside the rise of the Belt and Road Initiative, has resulted in dramatic development in African and Latin American countries. This is ultimately the single greatest contributor to the downfall of imperialism globally, and is why right now there is such a large cold war with China.

In facilitating south-south trade and undermining the US Empire’s hegemony, the PRC is undermining Israel as a settler-colony. It also served as a vital supporter of Palestinian statehood, and is an ally to the resistance and mediator between their factions.

It’s best to think of the CPC’s decision to go at the pace they have as a decision with tradeoffs. While they could have a larger share of public ownership, they would be giving up their advantageous position as one of the most important countries in global trade, a position that has helped them facilitate south-south trade and undermine imperialism. Importantly, the soviet union’s reforms fractured the system and weakened state power, while the PRC’s did not. The PRC maintained full state control of the large firms and key industries, and did not undermine CPC power.

In other words, the soviet union’s house burned down because they did not adequately fireproof their housing, as they did not think it necessary while running on electric power. The PRC on the other hand used gas heating and electric power, and fireproofed their house as they saw what happened to the soviet union.

He’s very deliberately speaking to some of the most anti-communist people on the planet, specifically in the context of defending soviet legacy just a few short years after its dissolution. He also has some pretty bad takes on China in retrospect that were far more understandable at the time he wrote the book. For me, it’s useful because it utterly demolishes the fantasy of the USSR as a widespread Orwellian torture society, with real problems far more mundane than fantastical, and tons of real working class achievements dashed by the reintroduction of capitalism.

I recommend it not for comrades, but for liberals. For comrades, something like This Soviet World is going to be both more entertaining and capable of capturing the genuine progress on the ground in the early soviet experience.

Yep! It’s also dialectical. When the basis is solid, it creates its own opposition in the sense that those ideologies at risk relentlessly try to tear it to shreds. This, however, strengthens the basis by forcing it to acknowledge and counter these new accusations. Sometimes Marxists like Lenin carry Marxism forward, but do so by affirming its basis and extending it by applying it to new conditions. Marxism is a creative, living science, which makes it infinitely adaptable and extraordinarily resiliant to critique.

You too Oppo!

Good luck comrade!!

Hopefully it keeps alienating the liberals from the cryptofascists, driving liberals to the left.

Have a great week, everyone! We live in uncertain times, so it’s best to stay to your goals, habits, and maintain revolutionary optimism. We don’t have the luxury of nihilism!

As always, communism will win.

It’s the sheer irrationality of it, too, both empire’s chauvanism and the generic anti-communism of MwOG.

Thanks so much everyone for your kind words! I didn’t expect to wake up to such a shower of support and warmth!

🤗

Also, for anyone wondering, the latest hate post at this time has 24 comments and a split of 63 upvotes, 5 downvotes, while this post has 71 upvotes, 0 downvotes, and 61 comments. Just helps put in perspective that the cryptofash on MwOG are far smaller in number than we are, especially considering MwOG is more broadly federated and yet has lower engagement. It doesn’t sound like much, but it does help explain why they are getting more and more desperate over there.