I 100% agree. You can demilitarize the US and sanction us and everything, but as an American I kinda draw the line at Balkanization. I don’t want to have intense animosity towards neighbors that have pretty similar class policies. And the process can’t happen without civilian deaths and worker rights being impeded. I’m even for giving lands back to Mexico and making more land the property of indigenous peoples, but if we balkanize the US, what stops Nevada from getting rid of a minimum wage or all taxation above a certain income? What stops Texas from fulfilling its dream of being a patriarchal white supremacist EcoFascist state? What will happen to California? The place that will inevitably take the place of Neoliberal “progressive” culture with backwards class analysis? The US is awful now, but the few things that are being held together by thread at this point are kinda important to stop us from leaning into Texan wishes of a White Christian paradise. Basically it’s like US foreign policy, just because a place is bad now, regime change and splitting people up into regional groups won’t make it any better
if we balkanize the US, what stops Nevada from getting rid of a minimum wage or all taxation above a certain income? What stops Texas from fulfilling its dream of being a patriarchal white supremacist EcoFascist state? What will happen to California? The place that will inevitably take the place of Neoliberal “progressive” culture with backwards class analysis?
Texas and the rest of the red states are already succeeding at establishing a fascist state, except instead of it being contained in Alabama or whatever, the rest of the US has to follow along too. Balkanization is unironically the best thing that can happen to America at this point. There will never be a communist America. Its very existence is imperialist/settler colonialist. But there is a potential for a communist New Afrika or Cascadia or whatever republics form post-Balkanization.
if we balkanize the US, what stops Nevada from getting rid of a minimum wage or all taxation above a certain income? What stops Texas from fulfilling its dream of being a patriarchal white supremacist EcoFascist state? What will happen to California? The place that will inevitably take the place of Neoliberal “progressive” culture with backwards class analysis?
As long as they don’t have nukes (so they can’t wage war with impunity in a multipolar or BRICS/China-led world), let them. They’ll collapse in their own time. Yeah it’ll suck for people there, but they’ll be able to do something about it, unlike the people on the other side of the world that the US fucks with.
That’s a pretty good point, the nukes are the main issue. Anything that stops the US from participating in foreign policy of any kind is worth it but not at the expense of nukes flying
This is why I figure the people here will never be able to gain control over the state. There are just too goddamn many life-exterminating weapons of every sort and the chance that some random shithead from Alabama or Glassgow could snag one during the struggle is unacceptable to the rest of the world either.
That’s true, and tbh there’s no structural change within the US to change it. I just wonder what a Balkanized US would because people made good points that any weaker version of the US is a better scenario for the world. But I wonder if it would be a civil war or another country involved. I’d welcome both in the end if it meant shutting down all the military bases around the world
I agree, but historically USA was founded on the ideals of federation. The UN and EU are founded on similar principles. And while none of them actually function ideally, I still believe it is the best way to go. Freedom of movement must be conserved, which as an outsider, I’m led to believe EU is pretty good at. Unlike USa, where the Interstate Compact let’s you get fucked for say owing a ton of fines to another state’s motor vehicle agency.
But ultimately, the tyranny of the minority is worse when for example Texas controls public schoolbooks, the patent courts, and abortion ideology via the supreme court. If they were separated a little more via federation they might not weild as much power over all the other states. Same for Delaware, Nevada, California, etc.
This is the key. Also the US doesn’t just suppress socialist progress within, it does so aggressively abroad. Anything that reduces its ability to do that both globally and nationally is a good thing. I’m so over clutching at pearls about the human cost of long-term positive change in the US when they’re murdering people daily around the world. The only way that makes sense is if one values white lives over others.
Has any balkanization (hate the term tbh) in history ever been peaceful?
I 100% agree. You can demilitarize the US and sanction us and everything, but as an American I kinda draw the line at Balkanization. I don’t want to have intense animosity towards neighbors that have pretty similar class policies. And the process can’t happen without civilian deaths and worker rights being impeded. I’m even for giving lands back to Mexico and making more land the property of indigenous peoples, but if we balkanize the US, what stops Nevada from getting rid of a minimum wage or all taxation above a certain income? What stops Texas from fulfilling its dream of being a patriarchal white supremacist EcoFascist state? What will happen to California? The place that will inevitably take the place of Neoliberal “progressive” culture with backwards class analysis? The US is awful now, but the few things that are being held together by thread at this point are kinda important to stop us from leaning into Texan wishes of a White Christian paradise. Basically it’s like US foreign policy, just because a place is bad now, regime change and splitting people up into regional groups won’t make it any better
Texas and the rest of the red states are already succeeding at establishing a fascist state, except instead of it being contained in Alabama or whatever, the rest of the US has to follow along too. Balkanization is unironically the best thing that can happen to America at this point. There will never be a communist America. Its very existence is imperialist/settler colonialist. But there is a potential for a communist New Afrika or Cascadia or whatever republics form post-Balkanization.
As long as they don’t have nukes (so they can’t wage war with impunity in a multipolar or BRICS/China-led world), let them. They’ll collapse in their own time. Yeah it’ll suck for people there, but they’ll be able to do something about it, unlike the people on the other side of the world that the US fucks with.
That’s a pretty good point, the nukes are the main issue. Anything that stops the US from participating in foreign policy of any kind is worth it but not at the expense of nukes flying
This is why I figure the people here will never be able to gain control over the state. There are just too goddamn many life-exterminating weapons of every sort and the chance that some random shithead from Alabama or Glassgow could snag one during the struggle is unacceptable to the rest of the world either.
Let them nuke themselves in peace
It’s not just nukes, not to mention blowing up a nuke or two has ramifications for the rest of the world as well considering fallout and whatnot.
I mean if you haven’t noticed some of these states are basically going ahead with those plans anyway and getting away with it
That’s true, and tbh there’s no structural change within the US to change it. I just wonder what a Balkanized US would because people made good points that any weaker version of the US is a better scenario for the world. But I wonder if it would be a civil war or another country involved. I’d welcome both in the end if it meant shutting down all the military bases around the world
California is heading towards being its own country at this point. We aren’t really down with all the crazy redneck shit going on.
I agree, but historically USA was founded on the ideals of federation. The UN and EU are founded on similar principles. And while none of them actually function ideally, I still believe it is the best way to go. Freedom of movement must be conserved, which as an outsider, I’m led to believe EU is pretty good at. Unlike USa, where the Interstate Compact let’s you get fucked for say owing a ton of fines to another state’s motor vehicle agency.
But ultimately, the tyranny of the minority is worse when for example Texas controls public schoolbooks, the patent courts, and abortion ideology via the supreme court. If they were separated a little more via federation they might not weild as much power over all the other states. Same for Delaware, Nevada, California, etc.
This is the key. Also the US doesn’t just suppress socialist progress within, it does so aggressively abroad. Anything that reduces its ability to do that both globally and nationally is a good thing. I’m so over clutching at pearls about the human cost of long-term positive change in the US when they’re murdering people daily around the world. The only way that makes sense is if one values white lives over others.
Czechoslovakia is the only one I can think of.