Shocking footage. Unaware Ukrainian troops mistake an approaching Russian tank for one of their own and suffer the terrible consequences. The camera man runs away inmediatly. You can hear the fray of the battle behind. vid: https://files.catbox.moe/7neb54.MOV

  • Ice_wizzard12
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    3 years ago

    I feel like this might be necessary to say. Those are still 8 people whose parents will never see again. So like unless these guys are confirmed nazis I’m not sure we should be celebrating this.

      • KevinDurant
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        3 years ago

        The war itself is an progressive force towards a socialist world, and is objectively “good” from the perspective of those struggling against the Fourth Reich.

        Do not wash this war down into some abstract universal reflection of evil.

        This war is unfortunately necessary to defeat the Nazi Empire.

        with select few benefitting from it and countless being manipulated to believe its somehow “good”.

        The “select few” benefiting from it are the people of the entire world outside of the Fourth Reich.

        I find your framing to be abstract.

          • KevinDurant
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            3 years ago

            Holy shit you’re actually an anarchist.

            This isn’t about me going to victims of US Imperialism and telling them that the war is “good for them”

            I’m blown away that this is your analysis.

            Who am I supporting?

            I am supporting the end of White Hegemonic Empire. You are supporting an abstract fantasy where that is supposed to happen without innocent people being affected.

            Every death in this war is a responsibility of the Fourth Reich.

            Your abstract, immaterial analysis is borderline Nazi apologia.

            • Sojik
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              3 years ago

              Was this guy banned for this comment? Seems unwarranted if this was the only reason.

              • Camarada ForteA
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                3 years ago

                If you check his profile page, he has repeatedly offended others and has been a constant pain in the ass. In the modlog you can see they were banned for being disrespectful to others, not because of his shitty take

              • panic
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                3 years ago

                They were accusing people of being anarchists and spreading nazi apologia without any sources. Repeatedly. I blocked them because they were so annoying I assumed it was a troll.

                Modlog says “broke rule 3 and called an admin a moron”. It’s fair.

                Edit:

                Before replying consider this: I don’t care about forum drama, please don’t make me care about forum drama.

                • TheBlurstOfGuys
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                  3 years ago

                  Calling an admin a moron is not something that should be a bannable offence.

                  • panic
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                    3 years ago

                    Lemmygrad sidebar, rule 3:

                    Be respectful. This is a safe space where all comrades should feel welcome, this includes a warning against uncritical sectarianism.

                    “You’re a fucking moron” doesn’t sound like a respectful thing to say to your comrades. That user sounded like they wanted to start shit, throwing around accusations and providing zero reasons. They didn’t get banned for calling an admin a moron and nothing else.

                    If I was a forum admin I would forbid reddit brain and ban without mercy.

              • SaddamHussein24
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                3 years ago

                I mostly agree with what you are saying but the socialist states didnt fall because “they lost popular support” or “there was no food on the table”. It was the revisionism of the post1956 CPSU (especially Khrushchev) together with western propaganda and liberal infiltration of the party (Gorbachev, Yakovlev and others) that killed socialism in Europe. Even those who supported perestroika didnt want the end of socialism, only a better version of it.

                  • SaddamHussein24
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                    3 years ago

                    But its not true that in the 80s “there was no food”. Sure there were shortages and no luxury goods, but noone starved, the starvation began after communism fell. Not even in Romania, the country with the worst living standards in the 80s due to the austerity regime, were people actually starving. About soviet revisionism you can read Mao and Hoxha, although they also ended up falling into their own type of revisionism in my opinion (Mao promoted the cultural revolution and allied with the US against the USSR and Hoxha became completely isolated from all countries and also funded terrorist groups in Kosovo in Yugoslavia). On the USSR you should read a book called “Socialism Betrayed” by Roger Keeran and Thomas Kenny, which explores why the USSR collapsed.

                    The biggest reason is imo revisionism. After Stalin died, the bureoucrats and opportunists that had been targeted by his policies (unlike whats often believed, Stalin fought very hard for democracy and worker power and against bureoucrats. He encouraged open criticism of bureoucrats and party officials at all levels, always sided with the workers against the bureoucrats if a dispute between them occured and was ruthless with corruption) and especially during the Great Purges took control of the party represented by Nikita Khrushchev. In 1956, at the 20th congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) he made his famous Secret Speech, in which he falsely accused Stalin of terrible crimes and atrocities including arbitrary executions of party officials (this speech is the main origin for most antiStalin myths that are told nowadays, to see evidence that they are false read “Khrushchev Lied” by Grover Furr). This speech was used to launch destalinization, in which among other things every anticorruption and antibureoucrat policy promoted by Stalin was rolled back under the guise that they were “tyrannical measures” imposed by Stalin. He also started pushing nonsense ideas like that the west and east blocs could coexist in peace forever so might as well be friends with them.

                    This angered China and Albania who read into his bs and caused the Albanian Soviet and Sino Soviet Splits. Seeing what he was doing, principled communists loyal to Stalins principles like Molotov tried to depose him as General Secretary by voting him out, but Khrushchev in alliance with the famed WW2 hero Zhukov staged a military coup and arrested them as an “anti party group”. Later on Khrushchev also betrayed Zhukov, concentrating all power in his hands. After his bs went too far, the CPSU voted to deposed Khrushchev and Brezhnev came to power, reversing some of his bs (restoring democracy to the party, changing the foreign policy back to antiimperialism) but a big damage had already been done. This meant that overtime corruption and nepotism separated the party from the people and caused the party to not adequately represent the will of the people. This together with bad economic policies that delegated economic power to low level bureoucrats instead of planning effectively from the top with input from the workers caused stagnation and discontent, which worked perfectly for liberal populists like Gorbachev and Yeltsin to gain power and popularity and destroy the USSR. This is a simplification, the book goes much more into detail.

              • TheBlurstOfGuys
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                3 years ago

                so support russia, no matter the cost? even at the detriment of the very class and people we are supposed to stand for? because you wont have an easy time explaining this to people affected by this conflict.

                Fucking Marvel Brain on display. You don’t sympathise with Nazis so you must support Russia. Goodies and Baddies, you’re with us or against us. I’m not the guy you originally started shit with.

                because you wont have an easy time explaining this to people affected by this conflict.

                And will you have an easy time explaining your sympathy for an ethnic cleansing fascist army to the people who’ve been mass murdered for years now? See we can both play this moronic game. The difference is that I don’t have to try to put words in your mouth.

                it really doesnt matter how well you wrap an idea, as soon as people struggle to put food on the table or you make too many mothers and fathers cry, you are done and people will turn to anyone who promises to fix things.

                Your entire analysis is “food on the table” idealistic drivel and smugly playing to the crowd for updoots.

                i understand what you are saying - russia must succeed here if leftist movement should have a hope, and america must be weakened. but to brush off this war as something to be celebrated is kinda sick. its fucking tragic.

                I didn’t say anything like that. And I didn’t say this war should be celebrated either you liar.

                you say that you support the end of the western hegemon. i dont think you will find anyone here who will disagree. but the methods are many, and the idea that this goal should be obtained by… pitting workers against workers, is rather alien to me.

                The workers are being pitted against workers by the capitalists, not me or any other socialist here. I’m sure plenty of German Nazis in WW2 had to put food on the table too, that doesn’t mean you get to “both sides” it.

                you call me an anarchist. on what basis?

                You trade solely in idealism and have zero analysis in material reality, the shoe fits. “War bad” and “soldiers are workers” is not any argument to sympathise and support the army of a fascist neo-Nazi puppet state of global hegemony.

                i will not comment on the nazi callouts you keep throwing around. but it does seem you are the kind of person that keeps the leftist movement weak by sticking your head high up the clouds rather than looking down and trying to lend a hand to a working man.

                There are quite literally Nazis involved in this war and your enlightened centrism calls for ignoring that. This is unacceptable for any socialist.

                this war should not be happening. and i will die on that hill.

                Who here said this war should be happening? Imbecile.

                • Camarada ForteA
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                  3 years ago

                  You were banned because of this and other comments in this post for being disrespectful to others and acting like an agent provocateur. Your language has consequences, be always ready to face them.

    • immoral_hedgeOP
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      3 years ago

      «ThEy CaN jUsT oVeRtHrOw tHe GuBerMenT» /s

      Agree. As the state of emergency calls up evey male from 18-60 as reservists, we dont know who these are. What we do know, is Ukraine will punish you with torture, beatings and public shaming if you try to hide or desert from the military.

    • Breadbeard
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      3 years ago

      at least they didn’t have to suffer much pain, i guess they were annihilated faster than nerves transport signals. i pity the families, but the blame here lies with PNAC/KAGAN/PYATT/NULAND here…

    • Camarada ForteA
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      3 years ago

      So like unless these guys are confirmed nazis I’m not sure we should be celebrating this.

      Yes, they were Ukrainian soldiers, at least as confirmed by Russian news sources. Feel free to celebrate now. 🥳

      Those are still 8 people whose parents will never see again.

      There’s no need to humanize Nazis. They are humans in the sense that they share a genetic-biological resemblance to us, but in no way they are deserving of any empathy. They had their humanity stolen from them, and they’ve become imperialist weapons that need to be destroyed. Their families, therefore, were not hurt by this tank, instead, they were hurt by the efforts of nazification of Ukrainian society promoted by imperialist NATO countries.

      It’s a tragedy, indeed, but fuck Nazis.

      • Ice_wizzard12
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        3 years ago

        Right but it’s not like every Ukrainian soldier is a nazi. Like if they were alive then fuck them 100% but unless we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that these people are nazis then I just don’t feel comfortable celebrating their death. but to each their own.

        • Camarada ForteA
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          3 years ago

          This is your anarchist and liberal roots speaking for you. The Ukrainian military has been massacring the Russian ethnic population of Donbass for 8 years already. If you read the article I linked, you’d see that these soldiers attacked other regions before getting blasted in the face.

          Stop humanizing Nazis, because the Ukrainian military has consistently accepted fascist paramilitary organizations inside their regiment, such as the Azov Battalion and Pravy Sektor. Their leaders, their line of command is composed bottom-up by Nazis. So even if the individual soldiers reject the Nazi ideology (most of them do not), they are led and commanded by those who subscribe to Nazism.

          So again, yes, it’s tragic that human lives are lost, but if those who are being killed preach an ideology of death and genocide, then their deaths should be definitely celebrated, and not a single tear should be shed for them.

          • Ice_wizzard12
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            3 years ago

            ah, I see that is a good point I didn’t think about the leadership, and to say that they were “just following order” is nazi apologia. Also given the fact that they were in the Donbas region, there is a good chance that they were stationed there before the conflict began, as most of Ukraine’s soldiers were directed to defend the capital, and were involved in the genocide in Donbas. I think this video is the aftermath which if it is, confirms the assertion that these were Ukrainian soldiers beyond Russia saying that they are.