Dutch news outlets are coming forward saying the elections are rigged and people were forced (sometimes at gunpoint) to vote in favor of Russia.
Also the number of the population was somehow rigged or something.
What are your thoughts and sources on this? Lot of libs keep throwing it in my face because it’s the state media that reports it.
Are we starting to trust Western news sources regarding Ukraine? Isn’t there enough proof how false and shitty they tends to be?
No. But in order to debunk them isn’t it nice to have some proof to our statements?
The media says they had to fill in the ‘yes’ by force, or under supervision. They say Russian soldiers voted as well. They say the bar for number of votes was reached but that also 2/3 of the population has fled, making it a false referendum. They say independent commisioners were send to check things but that they somehow do not count as independent.
That’s an awful lot of statements. And naturally I don’t believe it. But I can’t prove it with anything. Just saying ‘western media bad’ is not helping my case in any way. So I’m looking for ways to debunk it.
Edit: because the sad thing is, otherwise I will just concede my defeat regarding this one. In no way is it useful to start sounding like a right wing conspiracy loonie, unless I find some helpful things to back my claims.
Literally none of that is true and they have no evidence for it. It is not up to us to prove them wrong, it is up to them to back up their claims. All they have is “anonymous/Ukrainian government sources say…”
There are videos on YouTube of people voting at the polling stations, there are interviews with the people there. There were even international observers present who the west is now threatening to sanction.
The turnout was also very high by the way, especially in the DPR and LPR, and even in the other two regions despite Ukrainian threats to murder or imprison anyone who votes in the referendum.
I’m pretty sure this guy covered the referendum in Donetsk. A couple of journalists from there I follow and a veritable flood of videos in Telegram didn’t show anything of the sort either.
Say a half-truth, if you want to make up a convincing lie. Classic. Yeah, voting for soldiers of DPR/LPR on and near the frontlines was organized. Many of them are ethnic Russians, what a shocker=)
A lot of people fled Donbass to escape the shellings, understandably, as to how that makes the referendums “false”, I’m not sure. Turnout among the people left there (still millions, mind you) was very high.
Well, how’s “somehow”? International law is a shitshow in general, honestly, so I wouldn’t be surprised if observers that were there “don’t count”, but it would be nice to hear something specific.
Yeah like others said there are no real sources for the West. You raise some good point that I will look further into.
Despite the West pulling shit out of their ass regularly it’s still good to look at what they say and how we can respond.
Thanks for the input.
The “western” media has no sources themselves apart from scribbles on used toilet paper brought by the CIA. Same for us, we have no sources to back up our claims. The places of our interest are literal warzone with heavy intelligence and counter-intelligence work being conducted.
The only source of information that was supposed to be “unbiasied” are the international observers, but there is always one big “but”: whatever they say doesn’t matter, West got it covered
To add to this I also have to be very critical about the homophobic and transphobic shit of Putin’s speech. I think we would all like to keep the critical in critical support.
Yeah Putin says some cringy shit that we absolutely do not support. But he also said some things that were really spot on about how the west has looted the global south and relied on Russian energy and resources and Chinese manufacturing to prop up its own failing economy since the 1980s.
As usual a mixed bag with this Russian government, but then you can say the same about the Taliban, definitely some very distasteful people and views there but they still kicked the US’ ass and China is working with them to integrate Afghanistan into the Eurasian connectivity and development network.
We have to look at these things dialectically. A government can be at the same time a progressive force in international geopolitics and reactionary in their domestic politics. They can be economically progressive but socially regressive like Iran. Stalin spoke a little about this in “Principles of Leninism”.
Yes you are correct. I think I was mainly trying to raise awareness that he had said this as I had not seen it posted anywhere here (maybe I missed it).
There is thread on top the active about Putin’s speech.
I don’t think you have to debunk known liars.
Unfortunately you have. Not for myself, but for the people out there that have not yet joined our side. We need to debunk it for them. I know that I need to be very cautious about what I read, but your average lib/socdems/baby leftist may not know it.
You’ll just spend all your time responding. What’s the point? They don’t care what they’re saying. If you’re talking to people you actually know then, yes, engage with them. They’re liars. The majority of people know they’re liars. That’s what they deserve to hear. You aren’t going to win them over because they’re disingenuous. Better to spend your time talking to people who know they’re being lied to but don’t know how. Better not to spend your time arguing with faceless people over the internet at all.