I’m not familiar with China’s government system, but how do they allow that? surely they can overrule Shanghai since their incompetence will cost lives
There’s more autonomy and local accountability for localities in China than you’d think, especially when the only things we in the west are exposed to are just vague ideas based on western media/academia narratives… A lot of the state vs federal dynamic you hear about the US applies to Chinese provinces, if not more… I’m trying to keep it as brief as possible…
The highest office (ex. politburo in Beijing) technically can veto but it’s like an ultimate solution. They did it in Wuhan at the very beginning, when Wuhan politicians did not respond well and nobody in the world knew what covid was, the central government basically kicked them aside and installed experts and new leadership there.
But usually nobody has the energy/resources to do this on every issue, plus provincial politicians would not be happy if this was the norm. Usually you just let those in power do their job. They do good they get promoted they do bad it’s the end of the ladder. If this comes to an overrule from the top it will be like an ultimate solution. Majority of the leadership involved would see the end of their political life, those in politics who vouched for these politicians will lose political capital, and also it will reduce Shanghai city’s national standing as the rest of the nation watches their clownshow.
Plus even if the top leadership disapprove, they are not like the authoritarians the west pretends they are. Quite often the top CPC says one thing and it’s up to the total discretion of the bottom to listen or not… Sun Chunlan (top politburo) went to a norther province less than a week ago, she publicly continued support the zero-covid measures. This is at the exact same time when Shanghai’s leading liberals pretend to not hear and chose to continue their own ideas, and it’s not like that’s grounds for being jailed.
Lastly if you like being conspiratorial, the big party congress is later this year. Think of it like election year in America. Maybe some people in Shanghai are overestimating themselves and trying to achieve a big bang, while others are letting them fail.
I’d say it’s a mix. The Chinese majority saw success with zero-covid and support it across the board, Shanghai is no exception even if the place lean more liberal in general, so many still disapprove. Then of course on the other hand, we have the minority of western worshippers who are just going to be blindly support any anti-China pro-west positions.
The city is definitely a more liberal one, plus they are used to being the superior poster child while they get to join in on criticizing everybody else. Many are becoming defensive of the decisions now being on the receiving end of criticism. Just two months ago many were celebrating their lax policies as “more advanced” than the rest of us hillbillies all over the media. At this point it’s more that people didn’t admit there would be a real outbreak rather than “it’s okay people are going to die”.
But either way, since the pandemic is spilling over, the rest of the country especially their neighbors are forced to respond as well, and this will not bode well politically. China do have their own democratic system but it’s not like the simple elections in the west, I feel like it’s different in many ways so it’s hard to explain well for me. Bottom line is determining the leadership isn’t pure elections, but if they do bad people are going to disapprove and see them gone. The ways of the west, where the policies of a slight majority 51% can totally “win” and totally screws over the 49% phenomena, doesn’t really apply in a Chinese context, it’s not how the society is governed.
If you are interested, maybe you can look into some of the talks of Zhang Weiwei. I think his English is decent, his positions are a bit official, but they do reflect realities and explain things well, geared towards a western audience.
I think Shanghai has partly been a test chamber for coexistence policies. China can’t stay locked down forever, I haven’t gone home in 3 years because of how ridiculously hard it is, international travel is basically dead, hell even intercity travels. Shanghai is one of the richest cities with the best facilities and also liberal enough to attempt coexistence, so naturally they are the ones testing the waters. Death rates has been very low too due to the mild nature of Omicron, so that’s not entirely the worry. In any case, China needs to open up, and opening up means a wave is gonna hit sooner or later, and Shanghai is braving that wave for the whole country to observe.
I’m not familiar with China’s government system, but how do they allow that? surely they can overrule Shanghai since their incompetence will cost lives
There’s more autonomy and local accountability for localities in China than you’d think, especially when the only things we in the west are exposed to are just vague ideas based on western media/academia narratives… A lot of the state vs federal dynamic you hear about the US applies to Chinese provinces, if not more… I’m trying to keep it as brief as possible…
The highest office (ex. politburo in Beijing) technically can veto but it’s like an ultimate solution. They did it in Wuhan at the very beginning, when Wuhan politicians did not respond well and nobody in the world knew what covid was, the central government basically kicked them aside and installed experts and new leadership there.
But usually nobody has the energy/resources to do this on every issue, plus provincial politicians would not be happy if this was the norm. Usually you just let those in power do their job. They do good they get promoted they do bad it’s the end of the ladder. If this comes to an overrule from the top it will be like an ultimate solution. Majority of the leadership involved would see the end of their political life, those in politics who vouched for these politicians will lose political capital, and also it will reduce Shanghai city’s national standing as the rest of the nation watches their clownshow.
Plus even if the top leadership disapprove, they are not like the authoritarians the west pretends they are. Quite often the top CPC says one thing and it’s up to the total discretion of the bottom to listen or not… Sun Chunlan (top politburo) went to a norther province less than a week ago, she publicly continued support the zero-covid measures. This is at the exact same time when Shanghai’s leading liberals pretend to not hear and chose to continue their own ideas, and it’s not like that’s grounds for being jailed.
Lastly if you like being conspiratorial, the big party congress is later this year. Think of it like election year in America. Maybe some people in Shanghai are overestimating themselves and trying to achieve a big bang, while others are letting them fail.
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I’d say it’s a mix. The Chinese majority saw success with zero-covid and support it across the board, Shanghai is no exception even if the place lean more liberal in general, so many still disapprove. Then of course on the other hand, we have the minority of western worshippers who are just going to be blindly support any anti-China pro-west positions.
The city is definitely a more liberal one, plus they are used to being the superior poster child while they get to join in on criticizing everybody else. Many are becoming defensive of the decisions now being on the receiving end of criticism. Just two months ago many were celebrating their lax policies as “more advanced” than the rest of us hillbillies all over the media. At this point it’s more that people didn’t admit there would be a real outbreak rather than “it’s okay people are going to die”.
But either way, since the pandemic is spilling over, the rest of the country especially their neighbors are forced to respond as well, and this will not bode well politically. China do have their own democratic system but it’s not like the simple elections in the west, I feel like it’s different in many ways so it’s hard to explain well for me. Bottom line is determining the leadership isn’t pure elections, but if they do bad people are going to disapprove and see them gone. The ways of the west, where the policies of a slight majority 51% can totally “win” and totally screws over the 49% phenomena, doesn’t really apply in a Chinese context, it’s not how the society is governed.
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If you are interested, maybe you can look into some of the talks of Zhang Weiwei. I think his English is decent, his positions are a bit official, but they do reflect realities and explain things well, geared towards a western audience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR0Zyfqwb08 short video on why western China experts are always wrong on China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCxsgTShFQc One hour interview by a Canadian host, I watched this back then I think it was relatively insightful
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I think Shanghai has partly been a test chamber for coexistence policies. China can’t stay locked down forever, I haven’t gone home in 3 years because of how ridiculously hard it is, international travel is basically dead, hell even intercity travels. Shanghai is one of the richest cities with the best facilities and also liberal enough to attempt coexistence, so naturally they are the ones testing the waters. Death rates has been very low too due to the mild nature of Omicron, so that’s not entirely the worry. In any case, China needs to open up, and opening up means a wave is gonna hit sooner or later, and Shanghai is braving that wave for the whole country to observe.
This sounds believable, CPC loves A/B testing stuff with their cities