I just wanted to ask this question as I have heard this talking point mentioned several times here on Lemmygrad, but with little follow up or explanation. I myself am very curious and am actively pursuing joining a local chapter of a party, but I am in a very precarious place in my life, and I would like to inform myself as much as I can before making my final decision.

So what exactly would potential consequences of joining a communist party look like? Do you have any personal experiences with issues or discrimination that arose from your membership to a communist party?

Could these effects be mitigated by joining under an alias? Are the effects permanent? Will being a member prevent a person from traveling internationally and receiving a passport? Will being a member hurt chances of admissions to universities or jobs even if it is not disclosed? Will being a member be discoverable during security clearance checks and prevent the taking of a government job?

I’m sorry for the amount of questions, I’m just very curious, but simultaneously worried about the permanent repercussions that might arise from me seeking to join a party, especially in the heart of the Imperial Core. Thank you for your help and guidance.

  • @redtea
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    41 year ago

    (I wrote a long comment that starts on-point but then increasingly becomes a bit ranty. I’ve kept it in in case it is helpful. The ranty bit may seem defeatist or pessimistic. It’s not intended to be. I just think it would be unethical to encourage someone to join a party without knowing the risks. You have spotted some. If the risks are known, though, fill your boots.)

    You could always feign the Marxist > Trot > Neo-con pipeline… I can’t comment about experience in the US, but… I also can’t see many repercussions from joining a college Communist org. Loads of politicians and pundits join radical orgs in university. Then they ‘mature’ out of it. You don’t have to sell your soul like Hitchens, but you can also claim youthful exuberance if it comes up in a job interview.

    The only people who know the full extent to which e.g. the government cares about you being in a political party are the government. (Maybe a few of our three-letter handlers will come out the woodwork and tell us.) So we can only really guess, here.

    That said… I don’t know about joining under an alias. The security state will know your name, anyway. Do employers care enough to ask? One thing I would do is avoid any politics on social media in your own name. Because employers will Google your name to see what you get up to in your free time. So even just having, say, anti-Trump FB posts under your real name could be held against you by a Trump supporting employer. And besides the employer’s politics they want their product etc to have mass appeal, which means not pissing off any demograph, which means opting for employees who appear ‘neutral’.

    I’m not a member of a party, so I cannot speak to being discriminated against for that. But there is discrimination against union members. I suppose the difference is that you could feasibly separate party politics from work, but being in the union directly affects those at work who disagree with your politics. So in your day-to-day work life you can avoid the conflict from the former but not the latter.

    Talking about Marxism in any positive light will beget discrimination in professional settings where I’m from. But in informal settings, nobody seems to care. Most university students will be curiously open minded and will treat political differences as a cause for banter. So as long as you remain personally friendly, I can’t see people avoiding you in college for being in a party. Unless it’s all you talk about. The key IME is to be humble about all knowledge and phrase things as uncertain rather than giving the impression that you have access to immortal truths. Let people see that you’re a normal (non-tyrant) person with political views, and they’ll generally give you the space to share those views and may have fruitful conversations.

    Visitors to the US get asked if they’re part of a communist party or ever have been. So the state does care, if that indicates anything.

    Almost everyone who has been an effective anti-capitalist in the US was murdered, imprisoned, tortured, or harassed until they retired to a quiet, unassuming, apolitical life. (Michael Parenti was beaten, arrested, blacklisted, and hounded out of academia for protesting the Vietnam war.) Or escaped. It’s not a reason to do nothing, but it is a reason to be cautious and to study radical history to learn from past mistakes. (It’s okay to do something before you know everything, though.)

    There’s also a way of doing radical things in such a way that can be later sold to employers as extra curricular activities. Cynical, I know. For example, you could go to a language exchange and speak in English to immigrants. You could volunteer somewhere that provides food for poor children. The Black Panthers had great success with this kind of thing. IIRC, its acupuncture against drug use program (or something like that) gained a lot of public support, as did it’s food programs.

    I’m not saying ‘just’ do voluntary work (although that could be a safer way of building community strength if party organising would be dangerous for you). But there may be a way of doing party work that can be explained away in a professional environment as volunteering (if that’s what you’re worried about).

    I’ll also suggest, perhaps controversially, that ‘apolitical’ voluntary kind of work could be more effective than working for a political org that is co-opted and focuses on electoral politics. Many of the more successful radical US groups grew out of other successful political groups that had slightly different politics. At this point in the imperial core, it’s as much about building capacity for organising as much as ‘achieving revolution’. I mean, we can’t even get people to agree that starvation and homelessness are bad and unnecessary; never mind seize the means of production.

    Marx argued, the people need years of struggle to ‘make [them]selves capable of political rule’.1 Lenin argued that it may take three or more years to prepare someone for revolutionary government after five years already of Soviet rule.2 It seems that learning organisational and administrative skills while reading theory is crucial, whether it is inside or outside a party that has all the right aesthetics. So even if you decide you cannot join a party, you can do something.

    1 ‘1850 Split in the German Communist League’.

    2 ‘Better Fewer, But Better’.

    • @ComradeSaladOP
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      21 year ago

      Thank you for the time and effort you put into this response, and I apologize for my late response. I do promise that I’ve had a tab open on your reply and its just taken me way to long to get back to it.

      However, you do approach this topic from several very interesting angles that I will definitely be keeping in mind as I move forward.

      For the college radical org, sadly most of those exist mostly in particularly major and massive colleges, as in smaller colleges communist orgs are sadly nonexistent or just a three man trot book club at best. For this reason if I were to commit to the idea of a communist organization and be certain of that idea; I would need to commit to a party in full, for better or worse.

      The “pipeline” you mentioned seemed like it would be soul sucking at best and would risk to much in the long run, so I feel like just skipping the middle few steps and jumping right to a liberal position like Dem, or SocDem for cover might be safer. Seeing as how the US is trending “left” ever so slightly, and I might be able to better utilize Marxist ideals under a cover of a more palatable movement when I will be in my educational/career infancy, and unable to risk being an out and about ML.

      Overall, the part about the US Intelligence is probably mostly correct, as there is no way to know what they are actually planning and thinking about anything at any given time. As you mentioned to however, I doubt they would care much unless I present any sort of actual threat, like Fred Hampton and Parenti. However, I feel that joining any sort of actual political work would be seen as a threat, and all that would need to be done is tossing my application in the garbage to throttle any and all chances of movement. Which is why the cover and “subterfuge” is important to me for the beginning.

      I do agree fully with the social media line however, and I have done my best to completely limit that. I have no Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, Tiktok, or Facebook accounts, so my internet footprint is already very limited, and I never use personal emails for anything as employers have pretty cool but dystopian programs that allow them to throw emails in and see every associated account to website that email has been used for. I also see the larger internet as a pretty poor battleground for anything related to organizing or ML thought, so needlessly exposing myself seems foolish.

      I also agree with the socializing line as well, and while I may be an ML at heart, I don’t wish to make that my whole personality and conscious. I have other interests, traits, hobbies, and aspirations, so I don’t see myself ever wanting to overbearingly throw ML into every conversation as if I am some ultimate authority that must be followed or else. Most of my worry is with the admissions officers and actually getting into university, and how this might impact them; or how far the might dig.

      Also I would argue very much that the “volunteer” organizing is not cynical at all and should be a crux of organizing along with labour organizing and ML thought. As hey, I feel like people would definitely listen more to ML thought if they aren’t starving, and can get their rotten tooth fixed.

      What did catch my attention was your last paragraph, and I do hope I can live up to that ideal, as I know it is a long road ahead, but one that I can traverse with comrades, friends, family, and hopefully future supporters, all by my side.

      • @redtea
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        21 year ago

        You’re very welcome. It’s hard figuring out our place in the world, especially when we’ve realised that whatever our role will be, it will be unorthodox. I think you’ll do okay, for what it’s worth.

        • @ComradeSaladOP
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          1 year ago

          It is a difficult road ahead, even more so when, like you mention, you have to try and find a place for unorthodox goals, dreams, aspirations, and worldview. Especially in a world that sees those that worldview with hostility, meaning there is no standard path to follow as with other jobs, goals, and dreams.

          I am fearful of the future, while simultaneously hoping I can leave my mark on the world. A strange combination.