There seems to be a current of “pro sex work” in the left yet prostitution (to me at least) is not work it is not labour. Nothing of value is produced and all that’s provided is access of womens bodies to be raped by bourgeois men
Also does anyone have writings on the new trend of polyamoury?
Surely this has underpinnings in economy rather than “free choice to coshare a house amongst 4 people” (as in split rent 4 ways due to rent hikes)?
Again the trend of polyamoury seems to have it’s underpinnings in economy and the stunted sexual development of adults that are no longer able to “grow up” because wages are flat, houses are out of reach and rent is sky high. So why not YOLO and engage in as much meaningless sex as possible and collect relationships like commodities
(I’ve provided my opinions here but am looking for a solid marxist analysis of prostitution and polyamoury)
Yes a lot of pro rapists in the Left that wish to parade prostitution as something progressive despite this being settled a long time ago by Marx/Engels/Lenin and why every socialist country that ever existed outlawed prostitution
I didn’t post the question to ask the community I just wanted some recent MArxist analysis on it from communist parties!
love that kollontai quote
I dont think that people on the left consciously support rape. Framing it like this will just get people’s feelings hurt, and they wont listen to anything you say. Instead it will end up with accusations being thrown back and forth, as we can see here.
Prostitution is certainly an important issue to discuss, and polyamoury is also an interesting topic. Maybe you can make a new thread to discuss those, but please try to formulate it in a way that no one will feel offended.
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Then perhaps you have not run into the pro-Only Fans crowd or pro prostitution crowd that claim there is no difference between “sex work” and actual labour?
Anyway com. I did not come here to start arguments I just wanted to gather some Marxist analysis on this phenomena to develop my understanding of it from different communist parties and the like
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OK I will preface I didn’t come here to argue but to expand my knowledge on this.
Is sex work labour though? How come normal people are not paid for sex if sex is labour?
This operates under the assumption that whatever can be sold should be sold. This is a bourgeois value system.
The prostitution industry is an industry of mass rape. Not only that most of them are trafficked so are literal slaves or under violent control of pimps.
If we expand this to the Only Fans phenomena we see Monopoly taking control there with the most beautiful women/men earning hundreds of thousands whilst bourgeois men from the West use the difference in purchasing power of their currency (backed by USA military) to throw the equivalent of pennies at desperate women in Phillipines or India to drink their own piss/shit on camera for perverts in the West
Or if we look at the porn industry we see the porn stars who slept with James Dean coming out to say he raped them when during a scene he just shoved it in their ass to get a “anal scene”
Take this documentary for instance about BBC visiting young models in Ukraine and Russia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-ZDS86F9k&t=1279s
Part way through the documentary when the 14-15 year olds are parading themselves in front of the managers for a shot at being picked the BBC presenter turns to the camera and says “back in Soviet times they would’ve gone to school, got a degree and be assigned a job. Now they can model and earn 30 x that salary in a year.” This is liberalism - not seeing the inherent value in educating your population to the highest to their ability and only seeing the $$$ signs that can be earned.
And I’ve never stated I favour criminalising prostitution only that I don’t view it as “work” and prostitution reproduces bourgeois morality and the conditions we wish to overthrow
this is a borderline ancap argument, a socialist government can eradicate(perhaps not fully, but to a significant degree) black market prostitution, just as they can eradicate the drug trade
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not necessarily, but not seeing the drug trade as a component of the bourgeois imperialist system is just being blind(see opium in china, or cocaine in south america)
under capitalism though, legalization would lead to horrors that would make the united fruit company look like saints(which already kind of happened, see opium in china again)(the cartels won’t just go away, they’d become governments in their own right, no matter what the bourgeois propagandists tell you)
That is a very strong accusation, and you aren’t giving any argument at all in support of it.
It sounds like you understand illegalising prostitution as throwing the prostitutes in jail, but its not that at all. It means to give dignified jobs and living conditions to these women (and men). If anything, the people who pay for prostitution should be criminalised.
No I don’t think it should be illegal under capitalism but I am specifically talking about people who are pro-prostitution and yes I understand it as forcible re-education like what was done in USSR
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I think you are taking this whole discussion very personally, without really considering the opposte argument. This is not a good basis for discussion.
I agree that its not as easy as banning prostitution and be done with it (I mentioned this in my previous comment). But dont you think that it is very dehumanizing that women have to sell their own body just to make a living? As XiangMai mentioned, this results in issues such as human trafficking, and for that reason alone prostitution should be discouraged. Of course thats not easy, but that doesnt mean we should give up from the start.
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