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Scooters go where people walk… trucks usually don’t
Whew! It’s a good thing trucks never go through cross walks or across curb cuts to get into parking lots and drive throughs.
The only reason people ride scooters on the sidewalks is because our infrastructure is severely lacking and you get stuck “sharing” a lane with a 6000+lb truck.
You aren’t wrong and neither are they.
Stop that! You get outta here with that rational approach
I mean it’s /fuckcars on Lemmy. There are more extremist places you can find on the interweb, but not many.
And they don’t like to share. I had to flip off a driver for almost running me over today
Damn. Wish there was a way to have separate lanes or something
Still, bike lanes have a speed limit of 25 km/h where I live
but you don’t even need to be particularly swole to reach 30 km/h on a bicycle, how does that work then? Do they arrest people without speedometers on their bikes?
Generally that rule is not checked nor enforced.
okay so it’s just not actually a thing in practice then, not sure why bring it up in that case?
They should, yes.
In Belgium those require a drivers license, and your license can be revoked.
Not in my city. It is illegal for motorized vehicles of any kind to travel on sidewalks.
It’s illegal here as well, they just do it anyways
Reminds me of this guy: https://youtu.be/bzE-IMaegzQ
People are forbidden from going where the trucks go… or that seems to be the popularly agreed upon arrangement.
Rly?
Key word being “usually”
Every time you drive from home or to home is unusual?
I think here they’re talking usually in the sense of space, the vast majority of your time is spent on roads.
Is it just me, or does this thread feel unusually hostile towards scooters for being in fuckcars?
Right? The scooters are only in the sidewalks because the cars actively make the roads dangerous for them. But here we are in a place that supposedly hates cars defending them against a very useful replacement for a huge amount of people.
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You should still wear a helmet. It isn’t there for cars, it’s there because going from biking speed to no speed is more than enough acceleration to cause injury.
They need the same infrastructure that bicycles and have gotten popular really fast. Since the infrastructure cannot accomodate them (no bike lane), the scotters become a nuisance for everyone.
With proper infrastructure though (cycling lanes and parking spots) they are fine. (Some might argue about users not following the rules, I’d say, sometimes you can’t respect the rules because the street is shit).
Also private companies monopolising public space, not cool. (that one I still stand by, and I hope they pay “rent” that goes towards maintaining the roads.)@just_chill @Funkwonker I live in a city with a lot of bike paths (Bogotá). People drive their scooters, ebikes, and even small electric motorcycles on the bike paths, and it’s perfectly fine. I’ve never had or seen an issue with scooters (though surely there are some, we’re humans, after all). So, I agree: build more bike infrastructure and more people (even not on bikes!) will be happier.
I suspect there is a bit of a compounding effect with renting the scooters (more prevalent where I live), which makes users less respectful. Or a novelty effect with teenagers rushing past on their new toy. In my experience that wears out fast, though.
I guess even here some forget that you can put the scooters on bike lanes :)Same here, my town simply has multi-use paths basically on every other street and the only problem i see with e-scooters is that for some inscrutable reason people insist on parking the rental ones literally in the middle of the road???
It’s incredibly strange because they don’t even park them near a destination, literally just in the middle of nowhere…
But other than that people behave really well, and it makes me smile so very much to see families where the kids have their own bikes and e-scooters and the parents are riding rental ones, the added convenience of e-scooters has absolutely gotten more people out of their cars and actually experiencing the world and interacting with people around them.
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That and the assholes who just dump them in the middle of what little infrastructure we do have. Around here they are constantly blocking sidewalk, bike lanes, and mixed use paths.
Around here they are constantly blocking sidewalk
All city needs to do is to put giant “put ebikes here” sign over on-street vehicle storage spot(in car-dependent places it’s called parking spot). One such spot can store 10-20 ebikes or 20-30 escooters.
it’s so fascinating how people absolutely lose their minds over e-scooters, and these are people who shit on drivers for doing the exact same thing to cyclists!
Yeah I hate these scooters even with good infrastructure (Germany) people still can’t stop themselves from basically trying to run you over and when they are not in use they are usually left in a place (sidewalks, pedestrian paths etc) that blocks pedestrian traffic. Not to mention the people taking shitload of this stuff into the public transport and making it even more crowded.
Never had a driving license, can’t be bothered with it when public transport gets the job done.
people taking shitload of this stuff into the public transport
They’ve fixed that around here (Spain) after a couple got a battery fire in a metro car: escooters are banned from public transport.
Luckily bikes are not, which only take up like 5 times the space 🤷
I remember this happening often in college where some bikers were just an absolute menace and you had to get out of dodge quickly.
But like people don’t ride them badly here, so clearly that’s a solvable problem. I’d wager germany generally doesn’t actually really have that good bicycle infrastructure.
As for them being left all over the place, that’s a regulation problem specific to rental scooters, and doesn’t apply at all to privately owned ones but people like you just ignore that completely.
Also like, you’ve seen where people park their cars, right? a car in the middle of the bike path is vastly more annoying than an e-scooter.Calling problems “solvable problems” or “regulation problems” does not make them go away they are still problems associated with e-scooters. I always hear good stuff about Germany’s bicycle infrastructure but I guess it is suddenly bad when it is covenient for you to make your point.
Of course a car parked on a bike path is more annoying than e-scooters I’ve never said e-scooters were worse than cars, but still I find them extremely annoying as a person that is travelling mostly on foot.
Probably because these scooters compete with bikes for the space thats left over.
no they don’t, what kind of logic is that? By that logic cyclists should hate other cyclists too.
More people using bike infrastructure is great, it makes it visible and increases the likelihood of more money being spent on it.
If there’s not enough space in the bike lane for bikes and scooters, that’s only a reason to build more and bigger bike lanes.
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Sorry about your circle jerk
One of these share footpaths with pedestrians. The other two have to use their own dedicated pathways.
One of these
Oh, really?
Yeah, in general. Cars are not allowed to drive on sidewalks under most if not all circumstances. The point is that e-scooters have their restrictions for a reason, regardless of any whataboutism relating to cars. We want walkable cites, not e-scootable.
No clue what that street sigh means, but I guess it’s supposed to signify a shared space?
Speak for yourself. I want cities that are not dependent on cars. Walkable is the ideal, but cycling and scooting is an upgrade from cars.
Cars are not
allowed toThey’re not supposed to do a lot of things, and yet they do all of those things. They speed, they overtake dangerously, they kill pedestrians and cyclists, they kill or injure other motorists.
“But there’s a rule against it” doesn’t resolve problems like all the pedestrian and cycling deaths that we seem to accept as a needful sacrifice to keep bad transport infra and as-is. There are also rules against scooters operating dangerously. I’m not sure why bigger, heavier, more-powerful vehicles ought not to be subject to similar kinds of controls scooters are
if not all circumstances.
Not all. All cars can drive across sidewalk.
The point is that e-scooters have their restrictions for a reason, regardless of any whataboutism relating to cars.
I mean if sneezing at running speed of physically unfit person is so terrible, then why the fuck cars are not hardlimited to 10 km/h?
No clue what that street sigh means, but I guess it’s supposed to signify a shared space?
Kinda (article from where I took sign). Here it means transit traffic(driving through) is not allowed, speed is limited to walking speed(which in my country defined as 20km/h) and vehicles should yield to any pedestrians. Usually it is placed around micro-district where internal roads are connected to two or more city highways.
Not all. All cars can drive across sidewalk.
Only at specific points where a car crossing a sidewalk is expected, such as a turn in to a driveway, or an active emergency that would require the car to cross onto the pavement. Drivers can’t just yeet themselves across the pavement for no reason.
I mean if sneezing at running speed of physically unfit person is so terrible, then why the fuck cars are not hardlimited to 10 km/h?
Because drivers have to go though training and always have the potential of having their license revoked. Not anyone can just walk up to a car dealership and walk out with a car and no understanding of road law. Divers can just be trusted more than people using other modes of transport, which is why they get to move faster.
And again, whataboutism. Being the lesser of two evils is not the same as being acceptable.
In denser commerical areas, up to and even exceeding 50% of the sidewalk space can be driveways and entrance ways for cars. Add that many of this style of road can be 4+ lanes and 60+ km/h traffic. There is a lot of potential conflict areas, drivers often enter these driveways exceeding speeds safe for pedestrianized areas and these roads are designed for drivers to see other cars, not notice pedestrians.
As for trusting drivers due to their “training” most drivers are taught once while they are a teenager/young adult, pass some short practical tests (maybe 1 hour total time of testing) and are now trusted for a lifetime of driving. They never get retested despite change in driving laws, car technology, changes to their physicsl or mental health, or time since their last test. Driving infractions are paid off by monetary fines and not dealt with by mandated retraining courses.
The existence of a driver’s lisence as proof of a safe driver means very little to the cyclist who got hit by a right turning vehicle thhat vehicle did not check their mirrors for a clear bicycle gutter.
Drivers can’t just yeet themselves across the pavement for no reason.
They shouldn’t, but they do.
E-scooters shouldn’t be sharing the footpath, they should be in the cycle lane with other similar vehicles.
If they exist. I took a multi mile bike ride today and aside from the occasional bike gutter there were none
More like they ban pedestrians from their pathways.
Only one of these is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas.
The limit makes sense.
Another bullshit cars are evil post that just ignore facts and reality.
Cars can somewhat be evil but if you want to capture the attention of people you’ve go to post well considered arguments.
Not crap like this.
These devices probably cause < .1% of fatal pedestrian accidents and are electronically speed-limited, meanwhile for the device that causes 99% you put the responsibility of keeping speeds safe in the hands of individuals ranging from considerate over careless to outright methheads.
is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas
Why could that be? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that those are the only places where said 99% mode of transport responsible for 7,500 pedestrian deaths a year is banned and streets, where e-scooters should normally a go in cities, are designed for 2.5 tonne cars going 40?
The limit makes sense.
I mean yea, it does, but it is in essence just another concession to car dependency. Can’t curb pedestrian deaths because infrastructure is dogshit, drivers are careless and cars become more and more unsafe? Just regulate the hell out of every means of transport other than the one causing all the deaths and make getting from a to b as hard as possible for everyone not driving. Helps to a) blur the blame and cause some infighting (for instance, this post) and b) getting more people in cars must mean fewer pedestrian deaths right?? also more cars sold and no expensive infrastructure changes. Phew.
So how is it not a valid argument? It’s blatantly obvious that if cars were invented right now, with models as they are right now, safety concerns would be through the roof and they’d be regulated to hell and back with electronical speed-limits just like e-scooters are right now. The only reason cars are not limited in such a way is because they are a legacy device, part of America’s cultural identity and with a uncontrollably powerful lobby behind it so any attempt in that regard would immediately lose you public support. You’re asking for more well considered arguments, but I’m wondering what your argument is that cars should not be speed limited, other than that’s just the way it is, let everything concede to the status quo?
Note that cars are heavily regulated, have speed limits, collision regulations, are required to only operate on designated paths and require training to operate.
Meanwhile the scooters can be used by anyone without licensing, have no speedometer, and can go anywhere without a pedestrian even having a clue a scooter might be coming.
Things could be better, but in these areas frankly an even lower speed limit would not make cars that much safer, and you’d be better off without roads in some areas and poof, cars would be gone. However electric scooters would still be zipping around.
These devices probably cause < .1% of fatal pedestrian accidents
Percentage is meaningless without context. The stat you’re actually looking for is pedestrian deaths per mile. And it’s probably quite bad for these vehicles because they explicitly commingle with pedestrians.
Cars don’t spend very much time on parts of roads that have pedestrians on them, and when they do, there’s signage or traffic lights to help. Cars also have lights to help drivers see pedestrians and help pedestrians see cars, and generally make a lot of noise. You get none of these benefits with personal motorized vehicles. (Well ok, a scooter probably comes with some lights, but they’re probably also small and shitty and unregulated, so they don’t really count…)
Only one of these is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas.
It’s all of them.
Key word here is “often”
Every time you drive from home or to home is not often? Well, agreed, this is not often, this is always.
I couldn’t care less if e-scooters gain more traction but I do care if a completely unprotected vehicle can go at speeds where either the driver/rider or a pedestrian can get killed or seriously injured in the event of an accident and those have already happened where I live, with a large proportion going towards recklessness of the driver/rider.
These vehicles have been recorded travelling down highways, criss-crossing traffic, cutting in front of busses, etc, often with very gory results for every part involved.
We do not need more blood on the streets.
Wankpanzers vs actually suitable last-mile vehicles.
Then use a fucking ebike? Motorized vehicles dont belong on sidewalks, period. How the fuck are people gonna walk to work in a BUSINESS DISTRICT if there’s scooters saturating the sidewalk?
They have to go on bicycle lanes and streets (where there is no bicycle lane) here in Germany. Makes sense tbh. Cars should be slowed down to 30km/h in settlements though imo. Going on a 50km/h street is neither safe for bicycle, nor e-scooters, nor for crossing pedestrians.
And they are great ways of transportation. Grant us public transport users so much more independency.
They should introduce enforced signal lights though (only some have them). That is my only real concern here. Signalling with the arm is just not safe on a e-scooter.
Even 30 km/hr feels a bit high honestly. In a busy downtown you’re not going to be moving much at all.
In a busy downtown there shouldn’t be cars at all
They’re certainly heavily outnumbered
By banning cars in the city and rallocating freed space to ebikes. Oh, sorry, this is harder than rocket science for you.
Not to detract from the idea that trucks are dangerous (they most definitely are) but I’m not sure this is the best argument for this. An asshole in a truck doesn’t mean they necessarily will drive their truck down the sidewalk like what is common with assholes on two wheels. 4 wheels will do many other dangerous things. but assholes who ride their two wheels on sidewalks going top speed even at 15 without making room for pedestrians is a valid concern.
It’s also primarily an issue of lacking infrastructure. Two wheeled assholes wouldn’t be on the sidewalk if there was a bike lane, unless they’re huge two wheeled assholes.
100% this, the only time I ride my ebike on the sidewalk is when there is no bike lane or separate bike path. Cause if I have to choose between riding on a 45 mph road or the sidewalk I’m gonna pick the sidewalk and just go slower when pedestrians are around.
I unapologetically ride my bike on the sidewalks because I don’t want to die. I’m careful not to hit anyone and would love for protected bike lanes to be put in everywhere
An asshole in a truck doesn’t mean they necessarily will drive their truck down the sidewalk like what is common with assholes on two wheels.
Not to defend irresponsible scooter use, but the ‘but scooters are more commonly a hazard to pedestrians’ argument could (and arguably should) be expanded to include trucks vs. cyclists.
I don’t always have bad interactions with motorists, but when I do it’s almost always some guy in a truck that feels entitled to drift over into the bike lane while I’m in it, or when there isn’t a bike lane, to overtake dangerously- if I have one thing I feel threatened by when I ride my bike, it’s not scooters, it’s badly-behaving motorists but mostly men in trucks.
If we’re going to use the ‘I feel threatened by scooters when I am a pedestrian’ measure to justify regulating them, what if I feel threatened by big truck drivers when I am a cyclist? Yeah this all ultimately boils down to inadequate infra so not everyone has a safe or appropriate place to be, and these are all real problems- it doesn’t make sense to me to decide one of them ought not to be addressed.
Bunch of crabs arguing against other crabs in the comments rather than reclaiming the seas for ourselves.
Just wait for the EV Escalade where the fucking thing weighs in at 9000lbs…
why wait? that’s how much an electric hummer weighs 🙃
That maybe the EV I’m thinking about, I just know its a massive monstrosity of a vehicle.
ah yes, time to build scooter lanes in pedestrian districts that pedestrians aren’t allowed on and make it a crime to cross them when there’s traffic. great idea.
Probably it was intended to be sarcasm, but this is exactly what happened to cars.
Yes, hence the sarcasm …
Is it time to make a fuck scooters community?
Do your cities not have speed limits?
Yes, but not enforced by GPS.
For the trucks in the picture, the speed is limited by the manufacturer.
I really hate these trucks. Not for all the genuine reasons that everyone else does. I have a 1995 Geo Tracker. It might have 60 horsepower on a good day. It’s perfect for everything I need it for. Low horsepower vehicles are awesome. Buying a 700hp truck that’s limited at the ECU to 100mph, but you only drive it on 45mph roads, is such a waste. It’s like buying a million dollar house and sleeping in the garage.
Bring back 80hp bulletproof tiny trucks.
I don’t know if you really want a “swap” here, so much as a “speed limit all of these, or maybe ban two of them.” If you get on a scooter with a max speed of 118MPH what you’re actually doing is committing suicide.
You are derailing. This post is not about faster scooters. This post is a about absurdly overpowered tanks that can (and do) wreck havoc without being limited in any considerate way.
I like your name.
I think that’s to protect the person on the scooter from the people in the trucks
Considering these kind of stats, you’d be terrified to see the mass and force of subways and trains which also go through cities.
