Like, I’m not asking for people to like our instance and become communists overnight or even stop calling us tankies, but these are two of the few I’ve seen that will admit they like at least certain aspects and that we aren’t soulless bots or propagandists out to eat your children or something like that. Covered their names out of respect for not being deranged like so many other people on lemmy.ml and especially .world
(Also glad someone appreciates our nazi dunking)
The Reddit exodus brought a lot of heavily propagandized idiots. They are shocked to experience not being inside the Western approved echo chamber. Give time for their brains to normalize.
It’s been months how much longer is it gonna take im tired of them man
It is thousands of them and most of us just stay in our spots, so you shouldn’t be surprised that we’ve only flipped, what? a few dozen? so far.
I got banned from .world a couple months ago anyways lol
They’re not gonna normalize without exposure and a large contingent of Hexbears and Lemmygrad users don’t post outside of their local instances. And that’s on top of twitchy fingers hitting the big red “DEFEDERATE” button.
I think unless more folks start putting in effort to have constructive dialogues (or any kind of presence really) outside of the local instances the echo chambers will continue undisturbed.
We gotta post outside of our instances with alt accounts or they will just defederate. It’s difficult to have your worldview challenged and instinctually people will just refuse to hear it
I try to do that as often as possible, but it’s draining.
Well I’ll be. A .world poster who doesn’t seem to IMMEDIATELY be a stormfronter. Will wonders never cease?
It’s certainly possible — maybe they’ll join us one day 🤷
inshallah
Ikr? Was proud of that poster, and if im being super generous they could have just been using “tankie stuff” because they knew the libs would get what they meant and they themselves dont actually use the word
Just because there’s a handful of based folk over there does not solve the mass amounts of settler exceptionalism their instance has got going on. As I’ve said before-- if .worlders don’t want to be tarred with that brush, they can move; but my experience with .world is it’s terminally crackerish and 9 times of 10 wasted breath and wasted electrons trying to get through to them.
Can’t get too close to those damn tankies or they will steal your heart 🤣
Relevant hexbear emote
Me and my girlfriend frfr
Is ur gf a shark perchance
Y’all are literally my favorite two instances in this whole removed keep it up!!
Glad to see some other normal people for once 😅
You’re always welcome to sign up and join us! :)
She’s on a personal instance I think
She, and yeah my wife and I have an instance for ourselves. ☺️ I probably should make a Hexbear account since I can’t see their communities properly, I’ve just been lazy.
Ah sorry to misgender you, what’s wrong with their communities on your end? I see all of them just fine
No worries at all! There aren’t women on the internet anyway 😜
I think they use an allowlist for federation? I’ve never been able to load them from my instance. They’re visible from my alt though, which is on leminal.space.
Ooh yeah, I’ll dm one of their admins, they’ll add you to their allow list since you’re a personal instance and a comrade!
Hell yeah! I wasn’t sure if they cared to do the work of vetting individual instances like that. Thank you!
Glad you’re here comrade!
Yay I’m normal!
What was the original post complaining about?
Some dude went on r/redditalternatives and was whining about how mean and unfriendly people are on lemmy, which is for sure a problem with him lol
Before the Reddit exodus, lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml were some of the most wholesome online spaces I experienced. It was like a breath of fresh air and I felt a good sense of community and friendliness here. Now many toxic people jumped to this side of the fediverse, especially on lemmy.ml. Lemmygrad.ml is now my main go-to instance as it is the best one that still has managed to retain its camaraderie, even though it took a slight hit.
Really glad we have an application to get in, keeps out 99% of bad faith actor
Just like a communist party, you have to be careful whom you let in. It’s better to grow more slowly and organically with trustworthy people.
I tend to find smaller communities to share higher quality content and be more caring and helpful (excluding right-wing/hateful echo chambers). Lemmy before the Reddit exodus reminded me of the experience I had on small, indie game forums.
Libs ruin everything they touch.
If everyone you come across smells like shit, you probably shit your pants
It’s not my fault you evil tankies keep making me shit my pants!!!
This is the kind of live and let live I can live with
I am somewhat curious what the outsiders think of /c/capitalismindecay, which ideally should be one of the least objectionable subcommunities from their perspective. Then again, my explicit rejections of attempts to equate the U.S.S.R. with the Third Reich (on which, believe it or not, even some liberals are capable of agreeing with me) are likely to turn off the most close‐minded anti‐Bolshevists. Nearly one week ago a couple of chumps expressed their disapproval of this post for contrasting the Munich accord with the German–Soviet nonaggression treaty.
But the goal of /c/capitalismindecay is simply to enhance and formalize our understanding of fascism; ‘defending’ the people’s republics is merely the sporadic consequence of ruling‐class education obfuscating and oversimplifying fascism for decades (which frequently involves conflating it with socialism in one country). If my goal was primarily to defend or praise the people’s republics then I could use subcommunities better suited for that, such as /c/communisthistory. For /c/capitalismindecay, the most that you need to do is accept the principle that the Axis was worse than the U.S.S.R., which sounds obvious and trivial to us but can be surprisingly difficult for some people.
For /c/capitalismindecay, the most that you need to do is accept the principle that the Axis was worse than the U.S.S.R., which sounds obvious and trivial to us but can be surprisingly difficult for some people.
Problem is you are fighting against stuff like the Double Genocide Theory, which was literal nazi propaganda made to muddy the water and “both sides” the actual Holocaust, and even though that propaganda wasn’t even remotely credible when it was published it has since been reheated and served up as Cold War propaganda that was repeated so often that it’s just “common sense” at this point.
And part of what makes atrocity propaganda so effective is that once people buy into it it is filled with thought-terminating clichés that are built in which makes challenging that narrative difficult.
Yup, just the idea of becoming a “genocide apologist/denialist” makes it hard to even open a conversation, let alone a good faith one.
It’s also based on this false mythology that the US (and I’m sure other countries) have crafted around their involvement in World War 2. There’s this popular notion based on the idea where “if we simply knew what was going on we would have stepped in sooner, and all the atrocities that were occurring were simply too hidden from the public view for us to do anything about until it was too late!” And the logic that follows from that mythology is that if we want to stop atrocities like the Holocaust from happening again we have to take every accusation seriously, because brushing it off could risk another Holocaust happening under our noses without us knowing about it! And this allows atrocity propaganda to get away with providing shockingly little evidence to support its accusations, because not meeting an appropriate burden of proof can just be explained away by the “clandestine” nature of genocide. That it’s all happening behind closed doors, hidden away from the public. The proof of conspiracy is locked away in secret archives, but a collection of anecdotes is all you should need! If you don’t believe the first hand accounts we are publishing about our
targetsenemy states, then you’re going to allow another Holocaust to happen!But this understanding of genocide is completely ahistorical. Genocide does not happen in quiet, behind closed doors. Most people are actually quite opposed to their neighbors being discriminated against and eventually either run out of their homes or murdered, and most attempts to do so at any kind of scale would be met with social backlash and resistance. To get a society to the point where even the early stages of genocide are possible, you need to whip up segments of the population into a bloodthirst fervor. You need to agitate in public with loud speakers and megaphones, rallying people against the “subhuman removed” who are weighing like a cancer on the moral and righteous citizenry who is beset by a plague of undesirables. You need to boldly proclaim what your agenda is, and whip up enough of a critical mass of supporters to your cause that protesting against it becomes dangerous and risky because violent fascists will meet you in the streets to oppose those protests. Only then is it even logistically feasible to carry out even the initial stages of a genocide, and the entire process up to that point was required to be incredibly public. And at every stage afterwards genocide leaves behind incredibly damning evidence that incredibly apparent even on a cursory investigation. Starting with the mass refuge crisis that inevitably occurs as people attempt to flee from a campaign of mass persecution, down to the massive logistical networks required to carry out a campaign of mass death in the final stages.
The Holocaust did not happen in secret, it was well understood what was going on even with the standards of reporting and intelligence gathering of the times. This idea that we simply didn’t know comes from a desire to whitewash how complicit our country was with the Nazi regime. There was no debate on if the Holocaust was happening, we had transcripts of Hitler’s speeches and translations of the things he published, we had reports on the nazi rallies and the speeches given there, we had boats filled with refugees begging for asylum that were turned away from our doorstep. The public debate at the time was not, “Well gosh, we would certainly intervene if we knew what was going on, but the evidence is just so wishy-washy and we don’t want to be rash and jump to conclusions.” Instead, the debate was around whether or not eugenics and ethnic cleansing was good, with a significant portion of the public whole-heartedly endorsing Hitler’s policies and actions. Especially in the Jim Crow south and in other places of the country where the eugenics movement had a strong foothold and significant political sway due in part to endowments from organizations like the Rockefeller foundation and the Carnegie Institute who promoted Eugenics and race science as legitimate fields of academic study which you could get a degree in from American Universities as part of their mission to fund education. In fact, Hitler cites the American Eugenics Movement directly in Mein Kampf, crediting it with giving him the the “scientific basis” for nazi race laws like the Nuremberg codes. And of course, American corporations gave tremendous economic support, and those corporations had major business and financial interests tied up with supporting the nazis.
America was not unaware, America was complicit. Many of the policies implemented by Hitler are things that the American Eugenics movement had been trying to either pass into law or expand into other parts of the country for years. Many of the race laws in Jim Crow states were even harsher than what could be found in the Nuremberg codes, and eugenicist policies of forced sterilization had even started becoming state law in places like California. This idea that we simply didn’t know better is a comforting thought that allows people to pretend their country was the good guys, and they would have stepped off the sidelines sooner had we simply known better. And now we must remain hypervigilant for the slightest hint of impropriety.
And propaganda about Soviet states and other socialist projects fits this worldview quite well. This style of propaganda is full of stories about doublethink and brainwashing the public so that they don’t question the party while a secret conspiracy goes on under their noses as people are disappeared in secret.
In reality what a real ongoing genocide looks like is what is happening on the southern US border. Sure, reporters are often denied access to the inside of the migrant detention facilities on the border and other internment style camps, so some specific details about the process are somewhat obscured from public view. But the actual facts of what is occurring on the border is not the subject of public debate. Everyone knows that migrants are being locked up, families are being separated, women are being forcibly sterilized in these facilities against their consent, migrants are being horribly mistreated to the point of torture, adequate nutrition and health care is often not available to the people being detained resulting in many deaths. The public debate around this issue is not centered around what is happening in these facilities, it’s centered around whether the people being locked up and horrifically mistreated deserve it. With one side of that debate enthusiastically endorsing that cruelty, whipped up into a vitriolic fervor fueled by a constant stream of hate media broadcast by Fox News and various other tv, radio, and internet based hate media outlets. One side of that debate is celebrating how the illegals who are a plight and a burden on the good, hard-working American patriots are getting what’s coming to them, and that it serves them right for trying to come here and drag down the country. One side is claiming that Mexico is sending over their rapists, their drug dealers, and their murders, that these people are subhuman criminal scum, and that anyone who opposes these detention facilities are enemies of Law and Order and are traitors to this country and are traitors to all the true patriots who defend our borders.
You don’t have to dig beneath the surface to uncover some secret hidden conspiracy. Genocide is very loud and very public because it needs to be. It needs the consent and support of at least some portion of the public to be carried out, it needs these policies to be contentious so that the public fights among itself and resistance is difficult to organize.
When these libs raise concerns about being a genocide denier/apologist it comes from this idea that genocide is this secretive act, and if we don’t take even the most flimsy accusations seriously we risk being complicit in another atrocity. That the consequences of not taking accusations of genocide seriously are just too horrific to think about, and anyone who doesn’t feel the same way must themselves be complicit. But what this train of thought misses is that the consequences for supporting unfounded accusations is equally disastrously, and to illustrate that point we have decades of brutally interventionist US foreign policy which has repeatedly fabricated atrocity propaganda to manufacture consent for the slaughter of millions at the hands of a globe spanning military empire, with even more deaths being caused by countries under US sanctions being starved of resources as an act of non-combatant warfare. A false positive is just as disastrous as a false negative. But when you actually study history and understand the reasonable burden of proof you would expect investigators and reporters to be able to meet, you can feel more comfortable raising the standards of evidence you’re willing to accept to substantiate accusations of atrocity instead of naively buying into every accusation that you’re presented with and find yourself unwittingly in support of horrific foreign policy and militarism again and again and again.
Great comment
An Anarcho-Bolshevik effort post on my low effort post? Im not worthy, blessed day
Honestly though, I would imagine that as long they’re not a lost cause (i.e. not a lib who emits so many particles that they melt my ) that they hopefully at the very least appreciate the amount of effort that goes into your posts, which then could lead to further understanding down the road.