This dude has a political science major… I tried telling him that in social democracy the workers don’t own the means of production so it’s still capitalism, but he doesn’t listen. I remember went he stopped supporting my country’s (Netherlands) neoliberal party (D66) and started supporting PvdA, our socialdemocratic party. I was hopeful that he was slowly turning to the left, but nothing’s changed. What are some arguments against socialdemocracy that a social democrat might listen to?
Well, your brother doesn’t understand what capitalism is. Social democrats don’t want workers to own the means of production; they’re extremely naive liberals at best, or imperialists in disguise at worst. Social democracy was created as a counter to actual socialism, and after the illegal dissolution of the USSR, social democratic parties across Europe have been slowly dismantling any social welfare nets. The main reason why they haven’t destroyed some institutions (e.g. the NHS in the UK) is because it would have a disastrous effect on public opinion (but they can certainly sabotage the institutions in less obvious ways, e.g. underfunding).
Social democracy in the imperial core is also dependent on the exploitation of the periphery. With more and more nationalist coups and socialist revolutions in the Global South, this will become blatantly obvious to the people of Europe.
It’s worth noting that countries like Brazil (under the current government) could be considered social democracies, but they’re fundamentally different from the ones in Europe in that they’re anti-imperialist and cooperate with other anti-imperialist countries.
You could try showing him Second Thought’s video on the subject.
You give Lula too much credit. He’s cutting funding for stuff just the same right now, just doesn’t have absolute shit foreign policy.
Also, Lula literally invaded Haiti on behalf of the UN in 2004, with forces only leaving in 2017.
As an example, Lula is currently launching initiatives for Public-Private Partnerships, which include fucking prisons. Would also like to note he signed the drug law that shot incarceration sky high in 2006 and remains to this day. Among plans for these prisons is “industrial prisons” aka prisoner slave labour
Yeah, my point was about the foreign policy, not domestic. And as you said, the government under Lula did participate in the invasion of Haiti, but it’s still a far cry from what the socdem countries in Europe have done and continue to do
I think this might support the point that socdems are capitalists even more though. They just say they’ll do things for the people then just don’t when they’re in power.
Social democracy in the imperial core is also dependent on the exploitation of the periphery. With more and more nationalist coups and socialist revolutions in the Global South, this will become blatantly obvious to the people of Europe.
I feel like Polish people are slowly getting the taste of their own medicine. Anti-Ukrainian sentiment (against the Ukrainians already here trying to bring home the bacon, not against the Zelensky government), getting super reactionary about protecting The Borders™ (and the neolib party scolding fucking PiS for being too good to migrants/refugees), etc. Poland is becoming more similar to the Western™ countries.
Political science degrees are an inoculation against correct ideas.
For some reason, everyone I’ve met with a polisci degree uses it to be confidently wrong.
I’ve seen it a lot too. Whenever someone brags about a polsci degree I have to prepare myself for the most dumbass ignorant takes imaginable. It’s so bizarre. Even the average “I don’t like to talk about politics” griller has better takes than these guys. No idea what they are “taught” in their degrees, but it seems to be based on an alternate reality with entirely different politics to our own.
Maybe they assume they “know more” because of their degree, and unlike a more tangible degree, like say, physics or art, where you can have very real proof of your improved skill, polsci students can’t ever test any ideas, or experiment, and they of course, aren’t going to be learning about all those “bad dictator countries” because then they might actually start getting ideas. So they get to spend 4 years or more learning a bunch of elaborate nonsense designed to basically obfuscate the fact that their political understanding is as in depth as a primary schooler’s. They just use bigger words to describe it.
I also blame a lack of marxist party for this. I was talking to my mom yesterday and she asked me whether or not I will vote in november. I want to vote but I have honestly no idea what to vote. The most left option is GL/PvdA and they are socdems at best like you say.
Ur bro just needs to read the first chapter of State and revolution. Tho he probably will cry when Lenin calls him a petty-bourgeois democrat with near-socialist phraseology and a phillistine 😅
You could take into account the austerity that has been a big part of the change under social democratic rule in recent history, which has been capitalistic. Privatizing medical care, public transit, etc. Which has increased prices, reduced given service, etc. Transferring public interest to private interest leads to a shift in focus, as in from serving the public to serving the owners and thus profit.
This video is a good intro, created by some swedish communist student org.
this is fantastic, thank you
I dont think it HAS to be capitalistic… but… it is most of the time?
I live in denmark where our previous government was the social democratic party.
And the current government is them, plus some of the more… centric leaning right parties.
Theyre all essentially the same … lol :(
I recommend you reading the first chapter of State and revolution by Lenin.
