It could be classed a victory for us because of things like the EU being imperialistic.
However, I dislike how it was caused by xenophobia so it’s hard for me to support Brexit. It also harmed the working class in the UK, for example my friend’s dad lost his job as the company decided to leave the UK.
I live in the UK (Scotland) and I hate Brexit. Voted against it.
I was conflicted when I voted, because I am aware that the EU have done and continue to do shit things, such as the economic measures against Greece and supporting imperialist intervention in third world countries, such as Syria and Libya. I remember a document being released by Wikileaks showing them discussing how to stop refugees being able to cross the Mediterranean sea from Libya so that they could seek safety. This was discussed under the guise of stopping human trafficking.
Both before and after the referendum, I’ve heard comrades on the far left supporting of Brexit. I believe that it is extremely naive to assume that it will advance the defeat of capitalism or imperialism. Most of the arguments I’ve heard appear to me to be accelerationist. I am not an accelerationist, I don’t believe it makes any sense to hurt ordinary people in first world countries in order to advance socialism. That is the opposite of socialism. And hurting ordinary people is what I believe Brexit will do.
I perhaps may be in favour of Brexit if we lived under a socialist government, or even a slightly left-leaning government, because stepping out of their rules could mean that we would be more free to advance the reforms or changes that we want. There is an article (article 93) in the EU’s constitution which says member states mustn’t nationalise railways (provided that it is understood correctly, the way it’s written is not very legible). Whether they would actually enforce a rule like that is a different matter. Being in the EU also puts pressure on us to take part in economic imperialist actions, such as sanctions against Russia/Iran/Syria/Venezuela/Country X. But our far-right government is hardly going to disagree with those sanctions even outside of the EU.
I’m first going to state that I am a white male who has always lived in my own country. I will by no means be the hardest hit by Brexit, because the people who will be hardest hit, will be immigrants, asylum seekers, and refugees. These are mostly people from not so well-off countries as the United Kingdom. They already have it difficult.
Now, even people who have lived here for most of their lives, have had to apply to the government for “indefinite leave to remain” status. What this means is, if you aren’t granted this, you can be deported. To apply for this, you have to download an Android app (not available on iOS) created by the government. That is a huge problem for people who don’t understand English well, have disabilities, are not technically literate, do not have access to the documentation they need for any reason (possible reasons include that they are being withheld from them by an abusive partner, they have been lost or destroyed, or can’t be obtained in a timely manner), iPhone users, people who do not have reliable internet access, people who can’t get a hold of someone else’s android phone, people with mental health issues, and/or are too poor to purchase an android phone specifically for that purpose. (Sorry for the overlong sentence)
The app also had technical issues, such as extremely restrictive limits on the file sizes of the documents they were expected to upload. There was also so many claims to be processed that it was practically impossible to go through them all before the deadline, with the number of staff available. Initially, they also had to pay money (£2,389) out of their own pocket in order for the claim to be looked at and processed, with no way to get that money back after the claim has been either approved or declined. This (I believe) however was somewhat abolished after pressure from the EU and opposing political parties in the UK. As the process is so complicated, many people have had to contact solicitors so that it could be sorted out. Which of course, adds additional fees for the legal counsel.
As I have already gone on for long enough, I see the need to wrap this up. I haven’t even gone into more detail about the hostile environment or the new “points based system” being implemented. I haven’t talked about how the Home Secretary (Priti Patel) recently tried to deport an 11 year-old girl to Sudan after rejecting her asylum request to prevent herself being inflicted with type 3 Female Genital Mutilation. Of course, empowered by the racists and Islamophobes who voted for her, her government, and Brexit.
I can’t support Brexit. Just, fuck Brexit.
I feel like you collate a lot of right wing stuff here with “should the UK stay in the EU?”
For Socialism we have to leave the EU it enshrines the right of free flowing capital throughout the EU so to stay in the EU is to remain wedded to the status quo in the hopes of what? This is telling people to vote for Clinton because “trump is worse”
But Yugoslavia was Socialist(market revisionist) and the EU, funded by German capital and Nato’s blood thirsty designs, could not tolerate a socialist country on its own and destroyed it. Turning it into a bunch of far right little statelets.
The Greeks did elect a left leaning government and to what end? For German bankers to come in and tell them they have to adminster austerity or they’d choke the country off. To the point Greek pensioners began killing themselves enmasse. If we stay in the EU what is even the point of electing a left wing government - may as well just resign ourselves to liberalism.
Catalonia - the EU turned its eyes away from the beatings of old ladies because a left leaning government wanted its rightful independence.
France - the EU was quick to turn it’s eyes away from the men and women being bludgeoned nonstop for a year.
This is entirely wishful thinking or goes onto the other side of defeatism
The nature of the integrated economies makes the fact fighting for socialism would result in capital flight and dramatic loss of living standards (at least until the upper class is thrown into prison, banks nationalised and capital controls put in place). There would be a dramatic drop in the living standards of people were socialism to come to this country - at least for the first couple of years.
I have gone from this thinking (after studying many of the revolutions) that I see socialism these days as Christ not in the new testament but the old testament.
I use this quote because Christianity was spread via conquest and bloodshed. It was only centuries later that a new testament was written to “soften” the religion.
At the end of the day Brexit is the first step - delinking ourselves from an explicitly neoliberal organisation. It’s not sufficient though - but to meekly resign yourself to being wedded to the EU for fear of “hurting ordinary people” ignores the fact that ordinary people are hurt by the EU everyday.
It also presupposes that living standards and ordinary people *will not be further hurt by staying in the EU. *
This, as we know, is rubbish. As wages and productivity decoupled in the 70s and the *gains workers won have been lost whilst we’ve been in the EU. *
It also presupposes the tories in power would not be further sticking the boot into migrants any which way they can.
I do this because the Brexit movement in the UK is largely a right wing movement, not a left wing movement. It is domineered by assholes like Aaron Banks, Andy Wigmore, Nigel Farage, Robert Mercer, Steve Bannon and Boris Johnson.
I agree with that. I also say that leaving the EU encourages the flow of capital between the UK and USA. In trade negotiations one thing the USA wanted was an introduction of the drug patent system into the UK, which would facilitate the price-gouging of life-saving drugs necessary to people’s lives. There is also a threat to the National Health Service not just because of our own government’s zeal for privatisation, but also corrupt American big pharma corporations who wish to purchase and monopolise it. I’m lucky that I live in a country where I can get healthcare for free, albeit usually with extremely long waiting lists. Apparently it is considered normal in the USA to deprive people of things like insulin, the lack of which can lead to arterial blockage, ulcers and necrosis of the toes, feet, legs, fingers and hands, requiring amputation of said body parts in order to prevent sepsis. I don’t want to die because the CEO of UnitedHealth says I haven’t worked enough hours on minimum wage to be awarded with chemotherapy.
I don’t think what I expressed was the status quo at all. You can vote against Brexit cynically and pragmatically whilst not holding the status quo, and that is what I did in 2016. And what do you hope will come from Brexit? Since the vote has already concluded and Brexit is almost certainly going to happen, I’d like to be reassured as to what we will gain. I admit to being a “defeatist”, as you said I was. Being optimistic is hard these days.
I could similarly argue that supporting Brexit is the same as saying “vote for Trump because he rejects the capitalist liberal status quo”. It makes no difference to me because I’m not in the USA and I will have no impact on US politics. But if I were, I would vote tactically against the person who wants to run concentration camps to put foreigners into, and periodically spray them with the toxic and corrosive gas HDQ Neutral. That would not mean that I support Hilary Clinton 100%, even if I did end up voting for a Democrat.
I agree with everything you said about the EU in relation to Yugoslavia, Greece, Catalonia, and France. What I would also add is that the UK didn’t give two fucks about any of that oppression either.
I don’t see it like that. First get a left wing anti-imperialist government into power, then when the EU pushes back, then leave the EU. Leaving the EU under the helm of a racist, sexist, homophobic capitalist government intent on threatening immigrants is not good praxis IMHO.
I have to stress that I started my original comment talking about the people who have been hurt by the EU.