Self determination and liberation of groups like the Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and other overseas colonies is a must, but full balkanization would be an untold disaster. It would make the regional conflicts in the Balkans after the fall of Yugoslavia look like “Babies First Genocide”.
A reintegration and reorganization of the current territory into a Soyuz system similar to how the Soviet Union came together after the fall of the Russian Empire seems like it would be significantly more successful in the long term with comparably less bloodshed.
Self determination and liberation of groups like the Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and other overseas colonies is a must, but full balkanization would be an untold disaster.
Think again. What must be done, is destruction of the federal government and its institutions like military, police, etc, which means basically all of them since states do function largely on their own, so balkanization would de facto happen anyways.
Next, you probably means that the “balkanization” as USA is doing it. I don’t mean invade them by PRC army and force them at gunpoint. That would happen by themselves, the alternative is civil war and fascism like Rainer Shea describe, so i want LESS suffering for the people of USA. Optimal resolution would be dissolution of the union and then states would form their own blocks (since there is no way to keep them separate), which would maybe also allow for some form of selfdetermination of opressed minorities. I assume usians aren’t barbarians who will start to murder eachother in rage as soon as the big brother FBI dissapear? Because if they aren’t they can maybe sort this out and if they are, they will have “untold disaster” anyway. USA will fall sooner or later and nobody would held their hand then.
Which leads me to:
Self determination and liberation of groups like the Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and other overseas colonies is a must, but full balkanization would be an untold disaster.
Idealist take. How do you imagine those groups gaining self determination without revolution, without civil war, without removal of federal government, without balkanization? Again how do you imagine those groups getting self determination without balkanization and “untold disaster” for the US anglos? They will just pretty please ask the fash?
A reintegration and reorganization of the current territory into a Soyuz system similar to how the Soviet Union came together after the fall of the Russian Empire seems like it would be significantly more successful in the long term with comparably less bloodshed.
Sure it would be nice and beautiful. If we are on this level of idealism, maybe even entire world at once? Seriously speaking, everyone agrees that USA will have revolution dead last of any country, so by then it will be entire world. Unfortunately for usians, they will be after decades of “untold disaster”. They will have to liberate themselves. Maybe they will surprise me, but i’m not counting on it, nothing at all indicate even the slightest possibility.
What i am concerned is mostly:
Fastest possible end of USA imperialism. When III Reich was falling, no communist cried about their people even though they did suffered “untold disaster”, and they were done in by external invasion. I don’t see anyone invading USA so whatever they will do to themselves, they will do it with their own hands. And every second of continous USA imperialism mean more and more suffering worldwide and bigger chance of ecological collapse of entire world. This is the real “untold disaster” that is happening right now, compared to that some petty brawl beween North and South Carolina or whatever is literally nothing.
This is the rotting empire with nukes, which can end us all way faster than by eco collapse if the madmen at steer decide that after them, the deluge.
Who said that I wanted any of those things without a revolution or the removal of the federal government? I was implying all those things will happen AFTER the revolution succeeds. I’m not saying the US will magically change into a wonderland overnight, but if the Soviet Union and China could accomplish a similar feat then why would the US not be able to?
I was implying all those things will happen AFTER the revolution succeeds.
Thing is, US will not have any revolution when the feds exist (maybe a fascist one or some inter-imperialist coup), and proletarian movement is in complete shambles. Therefore revolution will come much much later after their fall. Also USA conditions are vastly different than chinese or russian were. As i said, maybe it will happen, since they could be weeks where the decades happen, but i will not hold my breath and nobody certainly can wait for socialst revolution to happen before they stop the imperialism - this needs to end asap.
Also about balkanization itself, just look at political and economical polarization between states. When feds fall, i’m abslutely sure some states will get very tempted to shed the burden for this or that reason. Texan separatist comes to mind, but also richer states will most probably try to band together against poorer ones. Again, the civil war in that case is not necessarily unavoidable, depend on how exactly will all that happen. As in case of previous empires, it will most certainly not be one point when everything suddenly breaks but rather slow decline.
I think saying that revolution won’t happen because of the Feds is very fatalistic and wrong. Communist movements always have had strong opposition, but we don’t let that stop us. But I do agree or sympathize with your overall point.
Feds as in the entirety of federal government and its instruments. Also i didn’t said it won’t ever happen, but as you can see they have been incredibly successfull up to date in fighting specifically socialists. I would rather say what will get rid of the government won’t be a socialist revolution (that will come later after probable period of turmoil). Most likely they will at some point implode under its own weight much like most empires in history, especially that there won’t be any outside military intervention which usually speed things up.
Self determination and liberation of groups like the Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and other overseas colonies is a must, but full balkanization would be an untold disaster. It would make the regional conflicts in the Balkans after the fall of Yugoslavia look like “Babies First Genocide”.
A reintegration and reorganization of the current territory into a Soyuz system similar to how the Soviet Union came together after the fall of the Russian Empire seems like it would be significantly more successful in the long term with comparably less bloodshed.
Think again. What must be done, is destruction of the federal government and its institutions like military, police, etc, which means basically all of them since states do function largely on their own, so balkanization would de facto happen anyways.
Next, you probably means that the “balkanization” as USA is doing it. I don’t mean invade them by PRC army and force them at gunpoint. That would happen by themselves, the alternative is civil war and fascism like Rainer Shea describe, so i want LESS suffering for the people of USA. Optimal resolution would be dissolution of the union and then states would form their own blocks (since there is no way to keep them separate), which would maybe also allow for some form of selfdetermination of opressed minorities. I assume usians aren’t barbarians who will start to murder eachother in rage as soon as the big brother FBI dissapear? Because if they aren’t they can maybe sort this out and if they are, they will have “untold disaster” anyway. USA will fall sooner or later and nobody would held their hand then.
Which leads me to:
Idealist take. How do you imagine those groups gaining self determination without revolution, without civil war, without removal of federal government, without balkanization? Again how do you imagine those groups getting self determination without balkanization and “untold disaster” for the US anglos? They will just pretty please ask the fash?
Sure it would be nice and beautiful. If we are on this level of idealism, maybe even entire world at once? Seriously speaking, everyone agrees that USA will have revolution dead last of any country, so by then it will be entire world. Unfortunately for usians, they will be after decades of “untold disaster”. They will have to liberate themselves. Maybe they will surprise me, but i’m not counting on it, nothing at all indicate even the slightest possibility.
What i am concerned is mostly:
Fastest possible end of USA imperialism. When III Reich was falling, no communist cried about their people even though they did suffered “untold disaster”, and they were done in by external invasion. I don’t see anyone invading USA so whatever they will do to themselves, they will do it with their own hands. And every second of continous USA imperialism mean more and more suffering worldwide and bigger chance of ecological collapse of entire world. This is the real “untold disaster” that is happening right now, compared to that some petty brawl beween North and South Carolina or whatever is literally nothing.
This is the rotting empire with nukes, which can end us all way faster than by eco collapse if the madmen at steer decide that after them, the deluge.
Who said that I wanted any of those things without a revolution or the removal of the federal government? I was implying all those things will happen AFTER the revolution succeeds. I’m not saying the US will magically change into a wonderland overnight, but if the Soviet Union and China could accomplish a similar feat then why would the US not be able to?
Thing is, US will not have any revolution when the feds exist (maybe a fascist one or some inter-imperialist coup), and proletarian movement is in complete shambles. Therefore revolution will come much much later after their fall. Also USA conditions are vastly different than chinese or russian were. As i said, maybe it will happen, since they could be weeks where the decades happen, but i will not hold my breath and nobody certainly can wait for socialst revolution to happen before they stop the imperialism - this needs to end asap.
Also about balkanization itself, just look at political and economical polarization between states. When feds fall, i’m abslutely sure some states will get very tempted to shed the burden for this or that reason. Texan separatist comes to mind, but also richer states will most probably try to band together against poorer ones. Again, the civil war in that case is not necessarily unavoidable, depend on how exactly will all that happen. As in case of previous empires, it will most certainly not be one point when everything suddenly breaks but rather slow decline.
I think saying that revolution won’t happen because of the Feds is very fatalistic and wrong. Communist movements always have had strong opposition, but we don’t let that stop us. But I do agree or sympathize with your overall point.
Feds as in the entirety of federal government and its instruments. Also i didn’t said it won’t ever happen, but as you can see they have been incredibly successfull up to date in fighting specifically socialists. I would rather say what will get rid of the government won’t be a socialist revolution (that will come later after probable period of turmoil). Most likely they will at some point implode under its own weight much like most empires in history, especially that there won’t be any outside military intervention which usually speed things up.