Steps up onto soapbox
According to Zak Cope in Divided World Divided Class, if the global economy was rearanged equitably income in the global north would drop by an average of 240%. This is a massive barrier to building socialism. Mitigating this problem should be a top priority for communists. If we ignore this we risk failing to build socialism, failing to show international solidarity, and we risk obstructing socialism’s construction around the world.
As unions and labor organizations become more necessary to maintain quality of life in the core, it is of paramount importance that these unions are plugged in to a greater political movement that is based on international solidarity. If all we can achieve is labor organizing that fights for marginal gains for workers in the core, then we fight for maintaining imperialism.
We must find a way to proliferate international proletarian politics into unions and organizations. If we cannot then inevitably we subject ourselves to the revolutionary violence of the proletariat. In Sri Lanka people have taken over and destroyed the Prime Ministers residence while he flees. This is the future of the global north if the course of history continues and if we continue to fool ourselves into thinking we can win the class war by focusing solely on the immediate concerns of workers in the core, and without solidarity with and strict guidance from the global proletariat.
Socialism is often branded as Utopian. As a sort of paradise of justice and equality. As marxists we must destroy this narrative. Socialist revolution will not bring prosperity to Amerika it will bring a death blow and this is the point. Workers in the core that ally themselves with the global proletariat must prepare for survival in a world without imperial and colonial spoils. We must prepare our neighbors and our families. We must not tell people the lies of Utopian socialism or allow the working class to be whitewashed into a class that lives off of the stolen wealth of nations.
You forgot to step down insert laugh track
Would the end of capitalism (including reparations for imperialism to exploited countries) actually have a negative effect on most workers in the imperial core, especially those who already have a relatively low standard of living? For example, would there be an energy shortage for essential production and household use? (I know that some countries, such as France, steal most of their energy from other countries, but surely the then-former imperial core would be able to generate enough for domestic use, at least after a while?)
Great question. Fuel usage, for one, could be massively reduced with better public transport, a 4-day working week, homeworking as standard, and planning laws to encourage the (re-)development of ‘local’ centres (in contrast to moving everything to major city centers and to retail parks).
Would it help to ask: considering that so much of the wealth flowing (unequally) to the global north gets siphoned into the deepest pockets (usually in tax havens), would the working class really miss that wealth if at the same time as the global south liberated itself, so did the workers of the global north?
Obviously the West would miss such easy access to rare earth minerals and cheap food, etc. But it continuous to need so many metals and minerals because planned obsolescence means technology gets outdated quick and it’s impossible to be a worker without using the ‘latest’ tech. If the West became socialist, one of the first things the workers could stop is planned obsolescence.
At the same time a socialist government in the global north could still trade with the global south, offering technical help as well as hard cash. Zac Cope argues that brain drain is one of several mechanisms by which value unequally transfers away from the global south. Would countries in the global south maintain good relations with e.g. a socialist France if it not only tried to stop brain drain, but actively sought to reverse it?
I gotta disagree. I don’t think socialism would lower the quality of life for people in the imperial core. On the other hand, it would have the effect eliminating alot of waste in Western countries.
As an example, take food. The World already produces enough to feed the entire planet and then some. Under socialist organizing, yes, you wouldn’t have the same ready access to 24/7 chips, soda and cookies. You would have access to a diet that is healthy and dignified.
Read Climate solutions beyond Capitalism by Tina Landis. It talks about the sorta of waste and reorganizing of society that would need to be done in order to create an equitable world for all.
I don’t think socialism would lower the quality of life for people in the imperial core.
Not permanently. But initially it certainly would. Even Lenin admitted this is how it happened with the USSR. This effect will be much more intense in the wealthy nations, especially without preperation and solidarity.
As an example, take food. The World already produces enough to feed the entire planet and then some.
This is true but there is a lot of problems with the way we grow food that wont be solved overnight and wont be as simple as redistribution. Production has to change as well.
Read Climate solutions beyond Capitalism by Tina Landis. It talks about the sorta of waste and reorganizing of society that would need to be done in order to create an equitable world for all.
Thank you for the recommendation. Im thinking this is exactly what I mean. It will take a restructuring of society to bring back a decent or moderately prosperous quality of life. Addressing these inefficiencies will probably help soften then intial blow and help build towards a rebuilding of the global economy, starting with local economies.
Left alone, then yes, America would turn into mad max land. That being said, I think there are plenty of orgs that are reimagining how society would be structured.
Are things where they need to be, nah, but a day at a time.
Im here for this kind of energy. My intention is not to be discouraging.
I find that very unlikely that quality of life wouldn’t decrease
If turned socialist, the imperial core would lose all their plentiful mines, farms, and ports in the global south which would cause raw materials and fruits to become much more expensive
USA would lose USD reserve currency status and petrodollar killing buying power
USA would lose prison slave labor which raises labor costs and thus cost of goods
China would stop producing many goods for the West to stop pollution now that there’s no need to protect themselves against imperialism which would skyrocket price of basically all goods due to cheaper labor being killed off
Let’s also not forget all the jobs that only exist in the West due to Western companies partaking in imperialism which allowed them to grow to massive sizes. All these companies falling apart would leave dozen percentage points of unemployment
Isn’t most americans quality of life already shit? Like,for capitalists and the middle class it will probably decrease, but for the rest of the workers it may increase no?
They would have free healthcare, decent public education, public transport, free housing etc.
Just these should improve most of theirs life right?
Well I guess it’d depend on how much you value luxury goods and services vs essential needs in quality of life
Huge majority of Americans have housing and have a car or shitty public transportation already. Most Americans don’t need healthcare or are covered by their employer (but poorly)
Socialism at first would provide slight improvements but most importantly “free” permanent stability in all of these which are definitely amazing
But they’d probably lose out on their heavy meat diet, lose out on cheap fruits, so they’d have to have a very basic diet. They’d lose out on their ability to easily buy nice smartphones, clothes, shoes, electronics, basically anything because of their strong currency + cheap labor and raw materials from global south
The sort of housing in America is extremely restrictive and exploitative. Rent wouldn’t exist in a socialist economy.
most americans don’t need healthcare
Capitalist healthcare is inherently exploitative. Wide scale car usage is not conducive to a good relationship with nature and shitty public transportation is just that, shitty.
I feel like this is a bit unimaginative.
Edit: okay, I took back the downvote because you did explain that you agreed with the stance that more socialist reimagining was needed.
True, this will also going to happen the second US loses their hegemony
Resource would be allocated on a needs basis and if excess exists, then sure, it could go towards other ventures that society wants, but more importantly needs.
All of the disruptions you’re talking about are a natural process of changing one societal system to another in a rapid process.
If turned socialist, the imperial core would lose all their plentiful mines, farms, and ports in the global south which would cause raw materials and fruits to become much more expensive
Yeah, and it would have to engage in fair trade with other countries to get what it wants for once. I don’t think how much capitalist waste is ready at your disposal is really a good indicator of quality of life.
USA would lose USD reserve currency status and petrodollar killing buying power
America has a vast amount of resources and labor power. We’d simply have to rely on our own abilities and resources to get what we want. Also, if America fell to socialism. I don’t see why China would just stop trade with us. There are still going to be everyday necessities that need to be worked on. China can still serve that function if they wanted to.
Let’s also not forget all the jobs that only exist in the West due to Western companies partaking in imperialism which allowed them to grow to massive sizes. All these companies falling apart would leave dozen percentage points of unemployment
A socialist government would retrain and redirect people without jobs into becoming useful members of society. How many bankers and stockbros would lose jobs is irrelevant compared to the establishing of socialism.
All of the disruptions you’re talking about are a natural process of changing one societal system to another in a rapid process.
I agree, but I would not make promises that this process would be rapid. In fact I would bet my life it will be disrupted by reactionaries as these things usually are. We need patience and vigilance more than we need expectations for a rapid restructuring of the global economy.
America has a vast amount of resources and labor power. We’d simply have to rely on our own abilities and resources to get what we want. Also, if America fell to socialism. I don’t see why China would just stop trade with us.
Yeah we would need to build ourselves up and rely on solidarity with China, but I would not underestimate the difficulty in restructuring this arrangement. We extract rent from China now and that makes our relationship with them better for us than it would be under more equitable circumstances. It would not be simple for China either. We might need to build ourselves up before we can successfully rebuild a relationship with the PRC so I think a self reliance approach is our best focus point.
A socialist government would retrain and redirect people without jobs into becoming useful members of society.
Absolutely. Although this will take years to accomplish, which is the part of the point Lenin is making.
How many bankers and stockbros would lose jobs is irrelevant compared to the establishing of socialism.
Seems like an oversimplification of the issue at hand. The entire economy would have to be restructured. The transfer of suplus value that drives the economy in the North is what we would lose, not just some pesky portion of the economy. As I stated on the OP, the global north would lose an average of 240% of their income under an equitable global economy, not because we lose Larry Fink or some inefficient finance bros, but because we lose the colonies. - 250%!! That means that if you think people in the North are struggling now, just wait until we are actually practicing what we preach when it comes to anti imperialism.
As much as I agree with many of your points, I don’t think they fully reconcile the difficulty ahead in establishing a high quality of life for the people under a socialist global system. In particular, many of us in the north are not prepared to undo imperialism for material reasons, which will likely lead to unprecedented reaction during the struggle of socialist construction. This means there is WAY more work to be done than just organizing a resistance to capitalism, we have to actually create a working socialist system well beyond establishing a monopoly on violence.
Talking about all this is much easier than actually doing it. Everything you said will take many many years to pull off and stabilize
America just becoming socialist in the first place would completely crater their economy due to all of their physical good companies crashing and burning into the ground
Just that by itself will plunge the country into a depression for a while
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