FUCK VICE tho, they portray them like “fanatics” of course, gotta legitimize settler colonialism and palestinian genocide.
Aren’t they only antizionists on the contention that they’re waiting for their Messiah?
Not really. As i understand it, zionism has nothing to do with the Messiah. According to judaisms scriptures, the Messiah will bring the jewish people back to the promised land (Israel) where they will live in peace and basically in paradise (sort of) forever. This mentions nothing about a jewish STATE, much less a jewish ETHNOSTATE. This makes sense, since when judaism appeared as a religion, states (in their modern form) didnt exist, much less ethnostates. So again the Messiah has nothing to do with doing settler colonialism in Palestine. In fact, when zionism was invented in the late XIX century it was secular jews who supported it, not religious ones, because its completely antijudaism. It was only after the Holocaust and billions in bribes by zionists and the british that most religious jews changed their mind. Also the 10 commandments are serious stuff for these people (ultraorthodox jews). “Dont kill” and “Dont steal” are categoric, there is no justification for this ever. So again what i imagine (im not jewish so a jewish comrade or even better a rabbi could confirm) is that the idea is the Messiah (basically God reincarnated) comes and brings the jews back to Israel where they will live in peace and happiness with whomever is living there too, if anyone.
So again as i understand it the Neturei Karta do oppose Israel on religious grounds (since they are very religious) but this doesnt mean “we oppose settler colonialism and genocide simply because God hasnt given us the Ok to do so yet” but “we oppose Israel because settler colonialism, jewish nationalism (zionism) and a jewish ethnostate has nothing to do with the Messiah and the return to Israel”. Again VICE tries hard to portray the first option as their beliefs, but if you listen carefully to what they say youll see the second one is the correct one. You even see it in the documentary, one of their protest signs says “Judaism=Religion. Zionism=Nationalism”. The Messiah has nothing to do with nationalism, which is an extremely recent ideology compared to how ancient judaism is.
Also there are many more antizionist jews who are not ultraorthodox nor very religious, as the rabbi himself mentions. This piece is pure slander, zionist propaganda, portraying antizionist jews as “religious fanatics” and antizionism as “far right holocaust denial”. Literally the classic israeli tactic. Dont fall for the lies of VICE. Sure the Neturei Karta are VERY socially conservative, but id rather have conservative jews who consider palestinians human than “more gay and transgender IDF killers” type zionist genocidal liberals.
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Literally. Zionism is just another form of nazism. But if you say this undisputable fact out loud they call you an antisemite.
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In what ways is it Nazism specifically (rather than general fascism)?
I use nazism and fascism interchangeably in this case
I see
Well, when you read the roots of Judaism, remember that God promised to the Hebrews to be the chosen people and that they will have the rest of the tribes as slaves. Judaism is really complex, and full of tribalism too, which is normal to get confused, they just have a different interpretation of their sacred texts, which kinda is in the frontier of what you and me said.
Whatever else and whatever the reason, I’m with them and fuck Vice news, they’re worse than CNN and Fox combined
I didnt know that. Yes VICE is terrible. The propaganda they did on Cuba during the SOSCuba bullshit was terrible. They literally pretended to be harassed by a cuban cop. Like you dont even see the cop on camera, its just the “journalist” pretending shes talking to a cop.
Lmao, even Epoch Time isn’t this cringey, and that’s says a lot XDDDDD
Maybe. Religious ideologies are crazy in general, and anything that is based is purely random chance and coincidence like 9 out of 10 times.
Not exactly. Please read my response.
Depends on what you mean by “religious”, I guess. I see it more like dogmatism vs. pragmatism – I’m sure there are plenty of Marxist Muslims who believe in a god (or hope that they exist) and follow religious traditions without thinking “I know that there is a god, that they are exactly as written in this old text, and that anyone who disagrees is an idiot”. I don’t think it’s inherently crazy to believe in something supernatural and to follow corresponding traditions (although I used to when I was younger)
In my case, it’s the complete opposite. I was from religion to religion trying to know some truths, comprehend, etc, and what I found is that “Cultural religons” or “cafeteria religions” or however you wanna call them are the SocDem equivalent of Theocracism. Like, for real"I am not 100% in agreement with this institution nor what’s official, but I still believe it’s the truth and give material and political support to the institution"is what they say.
Sure, it varies between different groups; I don’t mean to undermine your experience with religion. I’ve never personally found anything compelling in religion (my core question was always how anything can exist at all, and religion certainly can’t answer that), but I can somewhat understand wanting to believe in some greater purpose, and I understand why people thought that humans and other animals were designed by some intelligent being before the concept of natural selection was discovered
Well, the first concept similar to our current way of religion came from the Sumerians where the first kings were also priest… It mostly has to come, in essence, as an exploitation of people’s fears, like, how many important religions believe in punishment for specifically non - believers?
Gotta say, thank you for trying to be understanding towards me, and everyone else, even my “contraries”.
o7
