- cross-posted to:
- news@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- news@hexbear.net
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Fears of peace talks
What kind of bullshit Orwellian headline is this? Peace is GOOD, stopping the bloodshed is GOOD. We WANT less people to die.
Somebody think of the Lockheed shareholders!
Poor bastards need more stock buy backs
Inb4 “acksually killing thousands over lines in the sand is good” rhetoric
Too late, that shit is all over this post already
A real mask off moment there.
The only reason I opened the article, “whatchu mean fear of peace talks?!”
Like I get it, Ukraine shouldn’t capitulate. But ending the bloodshed is a good thing, surely.
To what end though? Freeze the border where it is now and give Russia another few years to build up force for round 3?
I suppose that’s up to Ukraine, right? They’re the ones fighting so it makes sense for them to decide what terms they’d be willing to accept.
So, you didn’t read the article? The fear is not about peace talks, it’s about support from the US forcing them while Ukraine is making progress.
But I thought Ukraine was a free and sovereign nation making its own decisions. You NAFO bots really need to get your story straight.
The issue is that we’ve already tried the whole peace thing before. Remember the Budapest Memorandum? The Minsk Protocol & Minsk II? The Partition & Friendship Treaties?
I feel like the heart of the issue is that Russia doesn’t want peace. If it did, we would not be here in the first place.
You mean the Minsk agreements Ukraine refused to implement for 8 years, and the west has now admitted were designed to buy time to arm Ukraine for the proxy war. Not really helping your case there bud.
…Ukraine refused to implement for 8 years, and the west has now admitted were designed to buy time to arm Ukraine for the proxy war
[citation needed]
can’t even be bothered to google? https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/22/ffci-d22.html
can’t even be bothered to google?
No, I’m invoking Hitchen’s Razor.
While I will concede the Minsk Agreement, there’s still the issue of the Partition Treaty, the Treaty of Friendship, and the Budapest Memorandum. All of which were meant to encode Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty.
Claiming there is no evidence for something that’s well documented is just flaunting your own ignorance. All of the treaties you mentioned were respected by Russia until US overthrew a democratically elected government in Ukraine in a violent coup. A fact that’s, once again, has been extensively documented in western media. It takes stunning amounts of intellectual dishonesty to ignore this and peddle your narrative.
The fear is that there is pressure for peace talk conditions to be less than fair to Ukraine, that this would be little more than appeasement of Russia, like what happened with Czechoslovakia in the 1930s
Ukraine was in a far better position when US and UK sabotaged peace talks last March, and Ukrainian position continues to deteriorate. So what exactly do you think delaying negotiations more is going to accomplish?
The hill is a pretty conservative outlet but this is a disturbing headline for sure. The only way to end the war is with peace talks, there is no other option. The better Ukraine does on the ground the better they will do in the negotiations.
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Fears of peace talks
Peace bad, war good!
Did I get that right?
If Ukraine enters peace talks now, have they gained anything or put their country in a better position since the original peace talks, which were sabotaged by Boris Johnson and British intelligence, over a year ago? Have they gained any significant territory since what was proposed then? Is their army in a stronger position? Are any gains since then worth the losses?
Just looking at it from a purely pragmatic and realpolitik perspective, I don’t see how anyone can argue that Ukraine has gained anything significant in this stalemate of a conflict. If they get similar results now, as what was on the table originally at the first peace talks, it means that their Western backers essentially sold a pipe dream to Ukraine that never materialised. Is the collective West ready to explain that to Ukraine, and the rest of the world? That they used Ukraine as a testbed for their weaponry against Russia, sold Ukraine a utopian fantasy that they’d be able to regain significant territory using Western weapons and tactics which never happened, and hundreds of tens to hundreds of thousands of people got killed or injured to accomplish very little.
Turns out that an offensive is really hard. Who would’ve thought? Definitely not centuries of military doctrine.
looks like they got back a bit east of Kharkiv & to the north bank of the Dneipr—long before this last big ‘offensive’ tho. Russia might’ve given that pittance of territory up in a peace deal ooth.
According to Ukraine it was uncovering the evidence of atrocities such as Bucha that ended any chance of peace talks early doors.
Uncovering mass graves of civillians is likely to do that mind you.
To provide context, we had a large number of videos coming out early in the war showing civilians taking up arms and otherwise impeding the invasion. They aren’t legal combatants by international law, but they’re not exactly civilians that got caught in the crossfire: they put themselves there.
What a fucking shit take lol
Nice response.
havent they breach crimea lines? they are the offensive now so they could demand more.
They managed to partially capture a handful of villages in the security zone after three months. They are nowhere close to Crimea. The offensive had been a complete disaster and Russia has so far gained more territory in the north than Ukraine has in the south.
Oh wow your comments are wild. Calling others nafo bots lmao and shit.
These Baltic and Polish dipshits should just be airdropped on to the frontlines if they want the war to continue so badly.
Without parachutes.
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Yeah, along with the dipshits commenting from somewhere safe out in the West or whatever that never learn from history about appeasement that doesn’t work.
No one “wants the war to continue”. But “dipshits” from Poland and countries near Russia know that they will not stop there, and after Ukraine they’re next.
This person is just trying to spread propaganda implying that it’s Ukraine and Poland that are to blame for the war. “If Ukraine would just surrender to this invading force, the war can end and everyone will live happily ever after.”
They’re carrying water for a hostile dictatorship.
Because the alternative is… To bleed Ukraine dry of able-bodied men?
Jesus Christ, just say you don’t like Slavs.
The alternative is for Putin to pack it up and go home and stop bleeding Ukraine and Russia (and those men who are being trafficked and conscripted from Cuba by Russia) dry of able bodied men.
Perhaps you think the entire European continent should just get it out of the way now and hand over their territory to this hostile dictatorship? That’d save a lot of bloodshed, right? We should be focused on doing whatever makes Putin happy because that means peace, unity, and no more war, right?
Oh I wasn’t aware you had the ear of Putin. My bad.
Right Russia will invade NATO countries.
If NATO nations prove themselves incapable of defending an ally, maybe.
Yeah if NATO ends up being a sham alliance then Russia wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine in the first place because they wouldn’t have felt a geostrategic threat of NATO missiles being places near their borders.
Hey, why don’t you go and sign up for the foreign legion instead of shitposting here while other people die.
Because nobody should ever resist becoming a russian citizen by force, right?
Bonus: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/ukraine-russia-war-donetsk-putin-b2200925.html here is the guy (Gubarev) who led the pro-Russian protesters who blockaded and occupied the Donetsk Regional State Administration building in 2014. “We come in peace, unless you don’t want to become one of us.”
Said by someone who has never lived under occupation.
“Fear of peace talks”
Does being a member of hexbear instantly mean you have to spam all your posts with images? What a shitstain instance.
Ik, they are always so toxic, coming in and attacking people under the flimsiest pretext
Oh god I used a reaction emote oh fuck somebody please stop me
Tell us what youre really mad at here. I can guess.
👶
…the fuck kind of gripe is this? People post images in threads on the internet. For all the unbridled hate I see for the instance… posting and using images?
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Pull your nose put of Putin’s ass. Putin doesn’t want peace, he wanted to steal juuuust a little bit more and at this point he just hopes not to be assassinated by his cronies for fucking everything up
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I love how you just make shit up without any evidence.
I take it you really believe that Putin is executing a three day special operation to rid Ukraine from Nazi’s?
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Are you kidding? This is what has been claimed countless times since day one of the invasion. It’s the official position of the Russian government.
Fuck Putin and fuck you
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https://www.rt.com/russia/550408-special-operation-putin-donbass/
First result on Google. Rt is the Russian government controlled news agency.
It quite literally has the words even in the URL. And this is one of MANY announcements about the “special operation”
You’re either a troll, Facebook conspiracy theorist, a paid Putin puppet or just a really really dumb little boy.
Worst fucking title.
Fear of peace? That’s pretty fucked up.
fears of peace
Sounds about right when it comes to what wine cave warriors crave and what they fear losing.
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Please upvote this comment if you are a liberal and this headline gave you pause and maybe a nagging “are we the baddies?” moment of reflection
And then I read the article and remembered: reality is more complicated then good-bad.
A sociopath told you that you aren’t capable of having moral judgements about people dying and that you needed to listen to vetted experts instead. It’s not complicated actually. I contend that pointless death is in fact a bad thing
And who or what desides if a death is pointless?
If you think there’s glory in these deaths then stop cheering from the backfield and take the place of someone gang pressed off the street.
Even if I would do that I suppose you wouldn’t be happier with the situation. And guess what, neither would I.
But that’s what you’re saying, right? These deaths are valuable just for the sake of fighting in some abstract sense? Because the bad guy is bad?
No, as I said in my first answer, there are no generally right or wrong answers. There are people dying because of some vanity project of the rich and powerful. I also hold the opinion, that those shall be prevented at all costs. But if my information on the conflict is correct and this war started as a civil war on the topic of secession, then the question get’s hard to answer almost instantly, and also highly individual.
I do too. That’s why I hope Ukraine is able to defend themselves against Russia bombing hospitals and torturing children. Once they’ve pushed Russia all the way back to their border, I hope that the world gives Ukraine so many weapons that Russia will never think about attacking them again.
Good to know if someone invaded your country that you would be a capitulator and collaborator in the name of an unjust peace.
Not upvoting as a diehard commie, just to respect the vote. Would love to see an actual poll of libs on this
I know this is hard to understand for a Russian bot, but Ukraine is a sovereign nation.
They will start peace talks if and when they want to.
Negotiations will not be between Washington and Moscow, and even if talks like this would take place (e.g. under a new Trump administration), Ukraine is free to ignore them.The only thing the west gets to decide is whether they keep sending weapons and how many.
Yes Ukraine is free to ignore them. The western coalition funding Ukraine’s war effort is also free to stop doing so. I’m not saying this to express that I wish Ukraine to be pressured to settle, but instead to highlight that Ukraine is not a self-reliant actor in this conflict.
Wasn’t Ukraine willing to have peace talks last year until our good pal Boris Johnson came in and wrecked it all?
I believe the peace talks fell apart once they discovered evidence of all the rape and murder committed by the russians.
Do you know anything about Ukraine or what Zelensky campaigned on for his election campaign? Do you know what Ukranians want? Are you Ukrainian?
I know they consider themselves a free, self-governing nation who can negotiate their own terms.
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Russia seems to be completely reliant on others economically and militarily also, but that doesn’t seem to matter to you
Russia has its own military industrial complex that it inherited from USSR that currently outproduces all of NATO, and Russian economy is currently growing according to the IMF. If you can’t understand the difference between that and Ukraine then what else is there to say.
Russian MIC innovations (from the USSR days) was largely driven by Ukrainians, but that’s neither here nor there.
What Russia has are deep stores. They cannot produce new aircraft without importing parts from the west. Not fixed or rotary. They are ramping up production of missiles, but so is Ukraine.
Russia cannot even produce ball bearings. They aren’t producing new APCs, BMPs or MBTs. They are importing ammo from North Korea ffs. And seeing how badly their equipment has performed, I expect to see their weapons exports collapse. Their vaunted “Armata” turned out to completely suck.
As for the economy, it is being artificially propped up by depleting foreign reserves. They are currently over-borrowing yuan to attempt to correct. And you really have to be a complete idiot to believe any official Russian data.
Russia is holding on for dear life in the hope that Trump wins the elections.
It’s almost like we live on different planets.
Imagine genuinely believing all that. It’s pretty amazing to see what guzzling western propaganda out of a firehose does to a mf.
Growing in the sense that it has lost growth year over year.
4.3% in 2021 2.4% in 2022 1.8% in 2023
inb4 you whataboutism with some other country…
and US mainstream media is now saying what I’ve been saying here for a while you’ve been ridiculing https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/09/with-all-due-respect-to-ukraines-foreign-minister-we-will-not-shut-up/
This is an economic war with the west, so yeah obviously what matters is whether Russian economy is doing better or worse than western economies. Screeching whataboutism when faced with that really highlights the quality of your intellect.
I know it’s hard for a NAFO bot to understand, but Ukraine lost its sovereignty when US overthrew the democratically elected government in a violent coup.
Lol
I don’t believe this for one second. I haven’t heard anything from the Ukraine administration that would suggest in any way that they are interested in peace talks. In fact, their recent choice of putting a Crimean Tatar as the Minister of Defence suggests that they are serious about taking Crimea back from Russia. I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until a Ukraine victory.
I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until
a Ukraine victory.Until the last Ukrainian. That’s what I’ve heard too.
I heard that all the time too. From Russian propaganda mainly. Is someone else independently claiming such theories as well?
These are justifications to give the people of USA as reasons to keep supporting them. Especially the conservatist side needs convincing right now, because their tribe is at odds with this particular war for some reason.
I feel you are falsely juxtaposing these different things as similar. USA is not throwing ukrainians against Russia, they are supporting a people who are fighting for the survival of their nation.
Yeah have you heard about the weapon supply talks with North Korea?
Kim jong is completely resolute to fight the west, to the last Russian 😢
I know you people don’t consider Ukrainians actual humans with agency but they fight because they are forced to do so by Russians. And if they stopped fighting they would be eradicated by Russians. Whether the West wants them to resist Russia or not has no weight in that.
I’ve seen videos and articles that suggest that many Ukrainians fight because they are forced to do so by other Ukrainians. And what do you mean eradicated? Do you know of some secret extermination camp nobody else knows about?
Show proof of your bald-faced lie propagandist
It’s openly reported in western media ignoramus https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/02/26/ukraine-finds-stepping-up-mobilisation-is-not-so-easy
So liberal western media is trustworthy to you now?
From your link:
Not all who get draft notices are actually inducted; sometimes the notices are simply a way to get every potential recruit on the books. Even for those who get one, there are ways of getting around it. There are legal exemptions for illness and disability—either of the draftee or of a dependant. Single parents and fathers with three or more children are off the hook as well. Students can defer service. Certain professions also receive what is known locally as bron, or protection from call-up.
The government has extended this to key workers in the energy, transport and agriculture sectors. Many IT staff have six-month exemptions. Alex, an IT professional who handles his company’s relations with the government, says the state understands how vital his sector has become to the war effort. “It’s one of the only areas of the economy still generating hard currency. Many of us are also working pro bono on military projects in AI, surveillance, counter-espionage and other classified technologies.”
From another economist article:
Ironically, though, Ukraine’s army is built on conscription as well. For years Ukrainian law has demanded 12 to 18 months of military service from Ukrainian men, even if many of them manage to postpone it through studies or parenthood (registering with a fake address is a popular trick to duck it entirely). The practice of conscription itself, like so much else about Ukraine, is a relic that it has tried to shed: when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, all its men had to complete at least three years of military service. Four of Ukraine’s last five elected presidents promised to abolish it. One succeeded in 2013, but it was reinstated the following year, after Russia began grabbing chunks of Ukrainian territory. Last month, just before the war started, Mr Zelensky proposed an end to conscription by early 2024.
Almost like it’s far more nuanced than “being forced to fight”. But you and your tanky buds will never admit that none of this would have to happen if Russia didn’t invade Ukraine in an unprovoked war of aggression
As to your buddy’s genocide denial, I’ll just leave this here
I love how you just keep peddling debunked nonsense here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8kt9RUpYqk
And no, it’s not more nuanced than being forced to fight, the regime in Ukraine is literally kidnapping people off the street and sending them to die on the front lines. Meanwhile, human garbage such as yourself keeps cheering that on. You are an utter scumbag.
They’re fighting because the last time they didn’t fight russia they had the holodomor.
They haven’t forgotten.
This is great news
Fears of peace
Death to America
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Russia has done horrible things to the Ukrainian people for a good century now. I hope the Ukraine doesn’t get pressured into giving its land and people over to Putin. Any deal needs to give Ukraine all its territory back, and for Russia to keep its military off their border.
What has Ukraine allowed to have happen to it’s ethnic Russian population comprising a significant portion of the east of Ukraine done during it’s time? You speak like a US state department underling. Whose office are you in exactly?
I’m pretty left leaning, and I’m against any fascist state trying to turn its neighbors into vassal states for its interest. And yes, that means being against a lot of what the US does as well.
Are you making fun of someone for parroting US talking points, while yourself parroting Kremlin talking points?
Anything except being for using Ukraine to fight a US-Russia proxy war is a Kremlin talking point to state dept plants like yourself.
So everyone who doesn’t agree with your (completely Russian aligned btw) views works for the US state dept? Are you in high school or something?
Are you even aware of who invaded Ukraine and started the war?
NatO DiD iT
That’s not an excuse to have a proxy war neocon.
Well, tell your buddy Putin to pack it up and go home. You do want the war to end, right?
If it’s a proxy war, that means that Russia attacked Ukraine to get back at the US, not the other way around. This means it’s on Russia to stop the war, by giving back an innocent country’s land that they stole.
Try studying history and us involvement in the region. Instead gas lighting people like they don’t know why Russia invaded part of the country. What has the US and NATO done prior to 2014 to create stability and peace in the region. Jack shit, the opposite, and there were plenty of opportunities. Ukraine isn’t going to get its land back period.
What has
UkraineCzechoslovakia allowed to have happen [sic] to it’s [sic] ethnicRussianGerman population comprising a decent portion of theeast of Ukraine[sic] West of Czechoslovakia done during it’s [sic] time?The settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace.
- Neville Chamberlain, British Prime Minister, September 30th, 1938.
More context:
The Munich Agreement[a] was an agreement concluded at Munich on 30 September 1938, by Nazi Germany, the United Kingdom, the French Republic, and Fascist Italy. The agreement provided for the German annexation of part of Czechoslovakia called the Sudetenland, where more than three million people, mainly ethnic Germans, lived.
What about what about what about…
