Even though federation has led to racists and/or NATO defenders showing up, I’ve also encountered a number if very cool people from other instances posting things like helpful advice on federation stuff, vivid descriptions of getting vored by a pack of anthro-hyenas, interesting insights and opinions on Star Trek lore, etc. I still haven’t found much in the way of active hobby communities, but it’s pretty cool to see more Star Trek and furry stuff in the timeline, and I feel it makes having to deal with the occasional deranged lib worth it.

Anyways, to all the genuinely cool people who wander into Hexbear threads, I’m very glad you’ve showed up to bless us with your wonderful posts and I hope you stick around.

meow-hug

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    I had no idea where the r/CTH people went after the reddit ban. Kinda forgot about the community since its been so long.

    But I was pleasantly surprised when I saw random Hexbear posts popping up. It’s good to see political shitposts that I agree with.

    I’ll definitely be sticking around. And I hope you enjoy the furry porn.

  • MF_COOM [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    I was very skeptical I’ll admit, but yeah not only are these dunk threads the funniest shit in the world but yeah we’ve also been getting cool new comrades joining Hexbear because .world won’t let them see our magnificent posting energy.

    Imagine what it must be like to be in a thread where everyone is talking about Hexbear and you can’t see any of the posts lol.

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    What I will miss though: criticizing China from the left

    It is already difficult to do so on Chinese internet because of the censorship and periodic crackdowns (though there are still pockets of QQ groups you can join if you know where to look for them), and pre-federated Hexbear was really one of the last places on the internet where you could have a frank discussion on China without too much propagandized brainworms.

    Now I find myself refraining from talking about China because of so many racist libs spouting nonsense propaganda.

    • Quimby [any, any]@hexbear.net
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      c/sino is an appropriate place to discuss China. if you see sinophobic bullshit, report it and we’ll make sure it’s dealt with. and criticism from the left is fine; it just needs to be sincere/well-intentioned.

      also, for general or casual discussions, including China or whatever, c/chat is also fine. again, we run it and we’ll make sure it doesn’t get out of hand, especially if you can help us out but reporting bad actors.

      @silent_water@hexbear.net @Parsani@hexbear.net

    • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      until we get local comms for it, news mega might be a good place to put this stuff as it’s basically only us and a few folks from lemmygrad in there.

    • Owl [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      I feel this even more for Russia right now. Can’t say anything bad about them or the dronies will take it as a reason the US is justified in fighting them to the last Ukranian.

    • MoJoJoJoAteMyDick
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      For what it’s worth, most threads criticizing China on lemmygrad seldom have liberals interfering. I’m not sure why, but my guess is that threads criticizing China go against the narratives they often use to dismiss leftist ideas.

    • LaBellaLotta [any]@hexbear.net
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      Hey I’m sorry to hear you feel this way i would be super curious to hear that stuff and would absolutely not tolerate racist libs spouting nonsense

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    The only way hobby communities will become active is through member contribution, just saying. I mod a couple, one that has 500+ subs yet I’m commonly the only one populating it. We need more nerds helping.

    • pooh [she/her, love/loves]@hexbear.netOP
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      My hobby projects (mostly 3D printing and related) have been pretty slow since moving across the country for work, then getting laid off and having to move again, but I’ll hopefully be back at it soon enough.

      Not sure if it counts but I’ve also been getting back into Blender/Unity for VRChat avatar stuff, which is fun. Maybe I should post about that when my avatar is decent enough to show off.

      • Dr. Wesker@lemmy.sdf.org
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        This I still haven’t been able to wrap my head around, sorry. I’ve seen a couple threads explaining the nuances of federation propagation, but it’s always just kind of flown over my head.

      • pooh [she/her, love/loves]@hexbear.netOP
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        I was aware of this, but am unsure of a really good way to search for that sort of thing. I’ve looked through the joinlemmy page and haven’t found much that really fits that, but it would be nice if there were someway to browse individual communities instead of just instances.

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        Semi-funny story: I had a comment deleted in one of their non-shitposting comms because I called JJ Abrams and Alex Kurtzman hacks. Apparently that wasn’t “nice” or “constructive”. I apologized, I didn’t mean to pee in their pool, but goddamn, how horny can you be for civility?

        • WhatWouldKarlDo
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          I didn’t think JJ Abrams being a talentless hack was a source of any real debate?

          • EnsignRedshirt [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            Nor did I, but the rules in that particular comm were “constructive comments only” and “be nice to literally every human on the planet or don’t say anything at all”. To quote The Big Lebowski “at least it’s an ethos” 🤷‍♂️

  • AlicePraxis [any]@hexbear.net
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    well I’m not a furry, I don’t have a vore fetish, and I don’t watch Star Trek so there’s been very little net gain for me lol

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    Despite probably being labeled a NATO sympathizer, I’m confused about your stance towards NATO and I wanted to ask a question:

    Do you agree that Ukraine was invaded by russia, and that Ukraine has a right to defend itself? Are russia the bad guys in your general worldview?

    NATO is a big part of the support for Ukraine, so I’d like to understand the people here and why NATO is disliked/hated.

    Sorry if this comes across as trolling, I’ve found a lot of threads from CTH that I’ve enjoyed but I don’t want to jump in without understanding things first.

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      The news megathread people had a really long write up about this:

      really long write up

      First and foremost, this site and the news megathread’s user base are not a monolith, and there are frequent discussions about who to support and to what degree. Nonetheless, we nearly universally acknowledge that the West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core, both militarily through wars of aggression and coups, and economic means, giving them unpayable loans, imposing austerity, and applying sanctions to keep these countries in permanent debt peonage. These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.

      We do not, as a site, have an official line regarding Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and a wide variety of viewpoints are represented in discussions. This includes many users with varying degrees of support for Russia, which some people may find confusing or objectionable. To understand this perspective, it is essential to understand two things: the historical context that led to the invasion, and theoretical concept known as “critical support.” Critical support means that we acknowlede and recognize a nation’s flaws, and do not uphold it as an example to emulate, yet we believe that the nation’s success is in alignment with our goals. While Russia may be a capitalist country, it is still a thorn in the side of the modern imperial order, but on the other hand, whle Russia may be a thorn in the side of the modern imperial order, it is still a capitalist country.

      Understanding the war in Ukraine requires understanding that neither history nor the war began in February 2022, the Ukrainian government has been at war with its people since 2014. The Maidan protests started with many legitimate grievances but were heavily backed by western funding and support, especially to the right-wing groups that overtook the movement and accomplished the coup of the Ukrainian government. The people whose democratically elected candidate had just been removed by the western-backed coup were unhappy and many did not recognize the new illegally appointed government as legitimate. This group was especially prevalent in the eastern part of Ukraine and formed the basis of the separatist movement (always referred to as “Russia-backed separatists” in western media). The new government in Kyiv attempted to suppress the separatist movement with its army but the army refused to start shooting their own countrymen. This led the Kyiv government to turn to far-right paramilitaries like Azov, Aidar, C14, Right Sector, and Donbas battalion in order to attack the people of Donbas, these paramilitaries were later folded completely into the Ukrainian military. Crimea was spared this fate as it was annexed by Russia and didn’t have to deal with 8 years of war. Multiple ceasefires, including Minsk 2, were brokered by Russia and European nations and signed by the Ukrainian government but were then simply ignored and the shelling of Donbas continued for 8 years. While Kyiv was waging war on its own countrymen with far-right paramilitary groups it was also promoting the far-right within itself. Stepan Bandera, a Nazi collaborator and genocidal murderer, was made into a national hero. His birthday was made into a national holiday and the street near the Babi Yar monument, a monument commemorating the largest Nazi massacre in Ukraine, was renamed in his honor. Far-right people were placed in high positions in the military and police. Politicians ran under the slogan “Military, Language, Faith”. Official use of the Russian language was suppressed, despite it being the majority language among eastern Ukrainians. The Ukrainian people still desired peace with Donbas and Zelensky ran as a peace candidate, however after he won he refused or was unable to stop the the shelling of Donbas. In 2022 Russia recognized the Donbas Republics as sovereign states, Ukraine responded by further escalating their artillery attacks on the Donbas Republics, Russia responded with the invasion of Ukraine.

      Hexbear is unwaveringly supportive of LGBTQIA+ rights and we unequivocally denounce the reactionary laws enacted in many countries in the anti-Western bloc, including Russia, Iran, and others. It is worth noting that some countries in this bloc are experiencing positive trends towards social progress, such as Cuba and Venezuela, while some countries in the Western bloc have either never supported LGBTQIA+ rights, or are experiencing a backslide. Tragically, some people have the perception that LGBTQIA+ rights are a Western export, ignoring both the bigotry that exists in Western countries, and the long history of LGBTQIA+ people in non-Western countries. The war in Ukraine, however, is not being fought over LGBTQIA+ rights. Neither side upholds these rights, nor will victory or defeat cause them to change their laws. The battle for LGBTQIA+ rights around the world is, as it has always been, really fucking hard, but if we make the mistake of trusting the imperialists to have our back, we will soon find a knife in it.

    • pooh [she/her, love/loves]@hexbear.netOP
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      Do you agree that Ukraine was invaded by russia, and that Ukraine has a right to defend itself?

      Ukraine certainly was invaded by Russia, but let’s be clear about why exactly Russia invaded. The US/NATO had been pushing for membership and for Ukraine to host US missiles. These things have been explicitly opposed by Russia since even before Putin was president, and this was the stated reason for the invasion. Imagine if Russia decided to install missiles in a country close to the US, like Cuba for example? This of course happened and the US freaked out leading to a tense nuclear standoff.

      Also, since the invasion, US leaders have repeatedly stated that their goal is to pull Russia into a forever war in Ukraine. They have stymied Ukrainian attempts at negotiating and are not at all interested in peace or “democracy” for the Ukrainian people.

      Are russia the bad guys in your general worldview?

      Russia invaded and was wrong to do so, but the US/NATO helped instigate the war in the first place and continue to use Ukraine as a pawn for their own geopolitical goals at the expense of ordinary Ukrainians. Trying to frame it in terms of “good guys” and “bad guys” is absolutely wrong imo and oversimplifies what is really going on. The correct position in my view is to support negotiations that would end the conflict and allow ordinary people there to live normal lives again. This is something that the US/NATO has repeatedly opposed.

      This is also in my opinion a good video on the topic and worth watching: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WZv0-0cx96g&feature=sharea

      In addition to this, NATO has a pretty horrible history of involvement in things like rigging elections and supporting terrorist groups. Operation Gladio is a good place to start on reading about that: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio NATO is, and always has been, a tool of US empire and nothing else. Of course people here would oppose it.

    • Redcat [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      so I’d like to understand the people here and why NATO is disliked/hated.

      They are currently waging a hybrid war against most countries in the world. For every year of my living memory either NATO is bombing some place in the middle east, waging lawfare/starvation wars against countries in south america, or all of the above against someone in Africa. NATO is the sort of group that would rather see the peoples of Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger die of hunger rather than pay market price for their goods. NATO will continue to blockade Venezuela until their oil is owned by american shareholders. NATO has bombed half of the muslim world, and now insists that it’s leadership has been bought off by perfidious chinese money. And the Chinese, who played the game and followed the rules, even they must be cowed into poverty and submission.

      It’s a defensive alliance between warmongerers, and I know that if NATO decided to stage nukes/troops against my people we wouldn’t be able to resist. Of course we stand with Russia. We wish we were them. We wish Libya could have resisted NATO. We wish Syria could resist NATO. We wish Iran, Cuba, Iraq, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Niger, Palestine, and so many others could resist NATO. We can only hope that China and Russia can, because if they can’t, we are truly doomed to NATO’s whims.

      And NATO’s made it clear. We are the jungle. We are less than human. And we are treated as such.

      What you see as double standards is just us trying to survive your governments.

    • sicklemode [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      I noticed you consistently capitalized Ukraine and consistently used lowercase for Russia here. This kind of stuff was started by the far-right reactionary regime in Ukraine to further dehumanize Russians by refusing to recognize them as a legitimate people. You would do well to abandon this trend and properly capitalize Russia, acknowledging that Russians are in-fact human. Some people are lazy in their typing, but this seems to be deliberate in this case.

      Edit: Checking your post history, there’s another instance of this from 7 days ago as of the time of this post. Russians are as human as anybody else, and shouldn’t be demoted to sub-human levels by refusing to capitalize the words “Russia” and “Russians”. Regardless of how you may personally feel about the Russian government’s actions, it’s not okay to deny recognizing an entire people’s fundamental humanity.

      Edit Edit: Checking your post history from other instances reveals far more instances of this, all consistent. Point stands.

      • bloopernova@programming.dev
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        This is true. I don’t apologize for it (yet?), but I don’t intend to deny their humanity and I’m kind of shaken that it’s interpreted that way. Which is entirely on me, and I wanted to thank you for the shock because it’s a blind spot I don’t like to have. I obviously have some thinking to do.

        Not capitalizing certain names is my personal choice to show that by their actions they no longer have my respect. For instance I do the same for the billionaires that are constantly in the news, and the ex president who has tried to steal the election.

        My reasoning/feeling for applying it to russia is that their state TV shows constantly dehumanize Ukraine. Regardless of history and how the point was reached, russia invaded Ukraine and have stated clearly that they consider the state of Ukraine to simply not exist. Ukrainians have been tortured, raped, and systematically genocided by russia.

        Respectfully, I understand that you or many here may not agree with those statements, but I’m not sure how to progress from there

        • sicklemode [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          How about you watch this video about what’s actually been going on in Ukraine, that Western media (including all their big tech proxies) has basically censored with a conspiracy of silence on reporting: Ukraine Targets Elon Musk, US Aid Dwindles, Ukraine’s Offensive Increasingly Depleted

          What ever lack of respect you have for Russia (or anybody, for that matter), you should take that up in the form of airing your grievances in a precise and targeted approach to what exactly you don’t like about them or their actions. It is unnecessary to use lowercase when referring to a person or a people’s proper identity, as it suggests they are of a lesser or illegitimate race/status. There’s acceptable processes for showing you have a dispute with a person or entity (Russian government, for instance), and refusing to capitalize someone’s name or race isn’t one of them. You’ve been manipulated into a practice that is against people’s fundamental right of having their humanity recognized.

          You seriously have to ask yourself if this is worth it, continuing down this path. Do you really want to be remembered this way?

          • bloopernova@programming.dev
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            I don’t have a lot of respect for the democratic party really. Which is outright adoration compared to what I think of the republicans!

            Not a libertarian either. I dunno, I don’t really fit in. Which isn’t some dumb “I’m not like the other girls voters” crap, I just don’t agree with much…

            Lol I can’t stay away today it seems. Oh well, I’m a sucker for punishment I guess.

            • I think that nobody needs to own more than a few million dollars.
            • I wish guns were strictly controlled with stringent testing requirements, but seeing Ukraine stand against russia makes me wonder about that. And people need to be able to defend themselves against fascists in their neighbourhood, the police, and government. No idea how to solve that gordian knot.
            • Any large group of people needs tough oversight to prevent the banal corporate evil of “somebody else’s problem” and passing the buck.
            • Everyone has a right to shelter, food, education, healthcare.
            • Women are the only ones who should make decisions about their bodies.
            • Religion should be taxed and audited by people to make sure kids aren’t being abused, people aren’t being grifted, etc.
            • Police must be professional public servants not paramilitary groups.
            • Elected officials must conduct their affairs under a microscope of public scrutiny, including all bank accounts, travel, contacts, etc. Shit slap an ankle monitor on them and a bodycam.
            • We should be a 2 planet species.
            • But we should have to keep the planet pristine for the next 7 generations.
            • Everyone should have the same rights.
            • Justice must not be pay to win.
            • Freedom of expression is great but social media should be adult-only and regulated. Skinner-box social media like tiktok should be illegal. We should protect our information space against foreign manipulation.
            • Laws should be kept updated as new exploits are discovered. Laws should follow the country as it grows, not wallow in inequality.

            Of course I’m forgetting a bunch of stuff.

            Maybe I should just be Monster Raving Loony party instead?

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              Not a libertarian either. I dunno, I don’t really fit in. Which isn’t some dumb “I’m not like the other girls voters” crap, I just don’t agree with much…

              Remember that you’re speaking mainly to communists. I hate the Republicans, the Democrats, the Libertarians, the Greens, and basically any party that you’ve likely heard of besides the larger communist parties (which are meh). Rejecting all the neoliberal parties is not in itself even slightly incoherent, and it seems that a rejection of the domestic aspects of neoliberalism are your strongest throughline here.

              I agree with almost every bullet point as-presented, discounting the second one because you express ambivalence there anyway.

              I think the “two planet” thing is silly because terraforming Mars is much more expensive, wasteful, and difficult than terraforming Earth, but I don’t think you’d split the party over that one. I also disagree about taxing churches, but I think there should be better standards for establishing a church and they should, as you say, be subject to regular auditing.

              I furthermore think minors should be allowed on social media but that’s kind of a difficult question and there should be more serious age-gating. China has some interesting laws in this respect, actually, with accounts that are tied on the back end to your real-life identity but with that information not displayed to others. It makes it much easier to track down when someone says something alarming (e.g. a bomb threat, talk of being abused, etc.) while letting them have anonymity to their peers and avoid stalking.

              But beyond that (and what I said are my personal opinions anyway), everything you said is consistent with common socialist platforms. I think, so long as you’re reserved in your communication style, you’d have a good time over on hexbear.net and people would send you reading/videos that you might find interesting and informative.

              Here is a video that comes to mind as being relevant to matters that you discuss:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nPVkpWMH9k

              And here’s a letter written by Lenin that I think you’d like (when Lenin says “liberal” he essentially means “capitalist” and “social democrat” is “communist”):

              https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

            • sicklemode [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              Laws should be kept updated as new exploits are discovered. Laws should follow the country as it grows, not wallow in inequality.

              China by Numbers: Improvements to legal system over the past decade
              A look at the country’s (China’s) progress in improving rule of law

              Freedom of expression is great but social media should be adult-only and regulated. Skinner-box social media like tiktok should be illegal. We should protect our information space against foreign manipulation.

              Facebook Targets Cambodia’s Prime Minister: A Lesson in Securing Information Space

              This myth of other countries salivating for opportunities to penetrate and manipulate the US’ information space is complete projection. The US itself leverages its big tech companies’ de-facto monopoly on much (if not most) of the world’s information space, as Facebook and other US-based big tech firms operate globally and are used for what you’ve basically parroted about TikTok.

              US media/social media platforms have always been used for war-like purposes, even domestically within the US. Every election they strong-arm dissenting views that contradict the narratives the capitalist class finds threatening to their legitimacy and the legitimacy of their system of liberal democracy. You don’t have to take my word for it, you’ll see it yourself as election season heats up again in the US.

              If anything, TikTok has offered people (especially marginalized groups) an alternative that isn’t as vulnerable to direct US manipulation via the national security state. That’s why the US has hysteria over TikTok; because they can’t control it the same way that they can other firms like Facebook which are directly integrated into the various three-letter agencies (most notoriously the CIA and FBI, but also the NSA in terms of data collection and storage). Tiktok offers a place where working class people can more effectively dissent against the US’ tyranny without being censored, de-platformed or otherwise sabotaged so easily.

              Edit: Your policy positions trend positively overall, so that’s comforting.

        • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          Not capitalizing certain names is my personal choice to show that by their actions they no longer have my respect. For instance I do the same for the billionaires that are constantly in the news, and the ex president who has tried to steal the election.

          Nobody’s convinced by this weak excuse. You might as well just go all the way by saying “ruZZian” like all the NAFO fellas are doing.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            I don’t find it very persuasive, but it’s a hill absolutely not worth dying on to argue against it compared to looking at the actual content of claims.

        • WhatWouldKarlDo
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          I don’t think this is the instance for you. You’ve been listening to too much reactionary nonsense if you think this is a defensible position to hold.

            • WhatWouldKarlDo
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              I agree to an extent. But we all gave him reading material, and that second to last paragraph is truly alarming.

              • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                no one changes overnight, people take it at their own pace. confusion, shock, and curiosity are the first steps. if they’re still saying stuff like that in a month, I’ll be more concerned.

            • bloopernova@programming.dev
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              Thank you for recognizing that. I don’t think I fit in here, the positions held by people don’t seem to be reconcilable with what I’ve experienced, seen, and read. I don’t want to create further bad feelings or friction in your community.

                • bloopernova@programming.dev
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                  I don’t feel like I’m being frivolous. I see the reports that russian people are taking Ukrainian children. I see the state TV in russia stating that Ukrainians are animals to be exterminated. I’ve spoken with Ukrainians who told me what russians did to their village and their friends.

                  Based on what I’ve seen, I think that russia is trying to commit genocide against Ukraine.

                  I’m not trying to convince people here of that. They’ve told me that they don’t accept that stuff is happening, that they stand with russia against western aggression. Our sources of information state fundamentally opposite accounts of events.

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                If you want to leave, we’re powerless to stop you.

                We can have a constructive discussion about Russia’s conflict with the West (which is using Ukraine as a proxy), but only after this fundamental issue of dehumanization is reconciled. There is no moving forward for me without that fundamental roadblock being removed, because it affects everything about how you see and treat Russian people (and people in general).

                I’m personally not advocating for you to leave, and would suggest against others’ efforts to push you out while you are engaging here in good faith. Change isn’t comfortable or quick, and it involves a lot of uncomfortable reckoning with established narratives and experiences you thought/think show the objective reality without distortions.

                Ultimately, the decision to remain here is up to you. Should you leave, the door is open for you to return should you decide it’s worth the reckoning of those blind spots and challenging what you thought/think is right.

              • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                minimally, read the material / watch the videos people recommended. getting some exposure to thought outside the bubble of western propaganda can never hurt. and you never know, you might change your mind in the future.

    • Staines [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      Do you agree that the Ukrainian people had the right to defend themselves from the Ukrainian government while it was trying to kill them for being the wrong kind of Ukrainian? Russia didn’t just invade, they intervened in an ongoing almost decade long civil war.

      There’s nothing good about Russia. It’s the same sort of neoliberal hellhole “democracy” as europe and america.

      • Bernie2028@midwest.social
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        1 year ago

        There’s nothing good about Russia. It’s the same sort of neoliberal hellhole “democracy” as europe and america.

        Russia is a neoconservative dictatorship, period. The US is crony capitalist hell but it’s nowhere as bad as Russia. Try being gay in Texas or Ukraine and tell me it’s worse than being gay in Russia.

    • skeletorsass [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      It is a complex situation. Russia are definitely bad, and so are NATO. Both want the war. Ukraine is caught in the middle. NATO want to supply weapons and have prevented the peace talks from moving, even when Ukraine has wanted to. Russia has behaved predictably since 2014, made interests clear. Many are unreasonable, but this is geopolitics. Before conflict United States has encouraged violation of Minsk 2 and Ukraine to behave genocidally in eastern Ukraine.

      Outside of this NATO is an imperialist alliance which was built by political meddling such as gladio. It is used as a tool to help United States wage war and death over the world for US corporate interests.

    • WhatWouldKarlDo
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      1 year ago

      I’m sure someone will write it up for you, or link to our usual statements on the matter. But I would like you to read this article. It’s not written by one of us. It’s actually written by a liberal who “escaped” East Germany and worked as assistant UN secretary general.

      Ideologically, he’s pretty far from us. But his editorial here hits a lot of the same major points as us, just from a western point of view.

    • loathsome dongeaterA
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      1 year ago

      NATO is a terrorist organisation masquerading as a “defensive alliance”. It has done nothing but lay waste anywhere it has touched. Talking about NATO or a conflict it is involved in is pointless if you don’t accept this premise or at least a little bit watered down version of it.

    • PZK [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      If you understand that Russia is just doing the same thing America usually does it might start to make more sense. Western liberals rabidly defending Ukraine and calling Russia evil is amusing considering they have spent their lives benefiting from the same brutal practices on other countries.

      But for a better understanding of this, Russia has for a long time considered Ukraine as effectively their territory or one of their puppet states, much like America does with others. What you are seeing with this invasion is the result of a slow erosion of this notion by western influence. Think of this as a long game aggression similar to how it would be if foreign powers convinced one of the United States’ territories to try to secede. That is what people refer to when they speak of NATO aggression. It is all about weakening Russia by removing one of their holds on what used to be their empire. Now they are moving to protect their interests.

      You may cry foul at this, but the US would likely find reasons to invade one of it’s neighbors (Canada or the United Mexican States) if there was a communist regime change that was propped up by China. You would likely happily argue that the United States has the “right” to per-emptively invade and depose the hostile government to protect its interests. It is strange that you would accusingly ask if Ukraine has the “right” to defend itself, when it could be easily argued that Russia has the “right” to invade. Zelensky is seen as a regime change by Russia and they seek to depose him and bring Ukraine back into their fold.

      Considering their prior status, it could be framed that Ukraine is fighting for it’s “independence” from Russia, but at the expense of becoming under the thumb of NATO and the rest of Europe. NATO’s ambitions for Ukraine are no more honorable than Russia’s, and it is the Ukrainian (and Russian) people that will suffer by being caught in the middle of bourgeoisie power struggles between superpowers. The depiction that NATO is merely helping Ukraine defend itself out of the goodness of their hearts is a disingenuous framing of NATO’s intentions.

      In the end it doesn’t matter if a country has a “right” to defend itself, but rather if they are capable of doing so. Ukraine has been on paper an independent country after the collapse of the USSR but functionally seen as still property of Russia, at least notionally. That has weakened to the point where war has broken out. A key take away from understanding the leftist position regarding this war is that we are not very invested in it and don’t feel we need to pick a side, but if you really want us to pick a side, most often we will pick Russia. Not because we love Russia, but because we hate NATO.

      • SimulatedLiberalism [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        But for a better understanding of this, Russia has for a long time considered Ukraine as effectively their territory or one of their puppet states

        There is nothing in Russia’s actions that supports this.

        If you look at the events leading up to the 2013 Maidan coup, it was very clear that the main wedge issue was the existing tariff-free agreement between Russia and Ukraine and with Ukraine signing the EU Association Agreement, it would open up the floodgates for EU goods to enter Russian market but not the reverse.

        Putin did not object to Ukraine signing the deal with EU, simply that they had to work out the tariff issue, and if not, then Ukraine would lose its tariff-free status with Russia, which means a massive loss in trade revenue for Ukraine since Russia was its main trading partner. Putin wanted to talk with both Ukraine and EU but the EU said no, which led to Yanukovych delayed signing the deal with EU because he needed more time to work this out with Moscow - and by then the fascists coup had already been mounted.

        What people don’t understand is that the EU Association Agreement was an economic warfare against both Russia (destroying Russia’s domestic industry) and Ukraine (forcing IMF loans and austerity on them).

        The 2014 sanctions imposed on Russia due to its annexation of Crimea had effectively erased Russia’s economic growth of the 2000s, why would any country want to do that to itself?

        At the end of the day, Russia is yet just another neoliberal state that wanted a stronger business tie with the EU, it doesn’t want to deal with Ukraine’s shit. The Western hegemon did not want Russia to be part of it, and especially with the cheap natural gas Russia was selling Germany and their increasing partnership that had seriously threatened America’s hegemony in Europe. And so, Maidan had to happen. Ukraine war has to happen.