Most Democrat politicians are neo-liberals, meaning they are conservatives by all global standards.
We need progressives to take over the Dem party. If you are young and progressive, especially if you are in a shitty dead-end job, run for office. Do it. Local or national.
Sign up, go through the process, announce it for fun on social media. If nothing happens, it was a funny, enlightening experience. There is no upper limit to what can be accomplished if you actually start winning races, though.
The third party approach has been proven ineffective. Party take-overs, however, are so effective that I have witnessed it multiple times in my lifetime. The Republicans have been taken over twice in just the past two decades.
Dominating a party that is not one of the two recognized standard parties will only divide votes and disempower us. Encouraging progressives to form a third party is literally a strategy that has been pushed by conservatives several times. It’s important we see the value in taking over the existing juggernaut instead.
Why not take over the republican party rather than or as well as the democrats if these actions are successful. Because so far the democrats are very much hardened against progressives. Look at your AOC and how she’s now indistinguishable from Pelosi an activist who supposedly cared about implementing uhc. Also gonna say look at how Bernie who wanted moderate reform had a massively corrupt primary and the media complex come crashing down on him.
Because you’d have to run on a whole lot of bullshit arguments and by the end of it (if you make it there) you’re just another brainwashed republican. A takeover is not a sudden process it’s slowly boiling the frog and you can’t take over the regressive republicans with a progressive argument set. They would laugh you out of the room. Your platform has to be similar enough that they tolerate you.
You wanna take over the republicans only with “I wanna be against dems”? Try it. But what are you gonna tell the antiabortionists, what are you going to tell the rightwing antigovernment people, what are you going to tell the fascists and nazis and what are you going to tell the racist rural white folk and the bible belt? Are you going to support prolifers suddenly, are you suddenly going to rant against the criminal black population? Congrats, you successfully integrated into the republicans and became invisible.
A takeover is not a sudden process it’s slowly boiling the frog
Let me see, when did “progressives” start turning on the heat? Must have been, oh, 2003 with the Kerry campaign. A good twenty years (at least), with nothing to show for it but lots of corpses in Iraq and Syria and the Ukraine. That’s a slow burn, all right.
You wanna take over the republicans only with “I wanna be against dems”?
All right, I’ll entertain this thought experiment.
But what are you gonna tell the antiabortionists
I’d tell them that while I may not agree in total with their beliefs, anti-abortion sentiment recognizes a fundamental truth, which is that in the US, abortion is promoted as genocidal tool against the working class. And this is something nobody wants to talk about. Working class people have the most abortions, but also tend, statistically, to oppose abortion more. This is because for many working class women, abortion is a matter of economic neccesity; they would have liked to carry a pregnancy to term, but had to abort so that they could continue to pay rent and put food on the table. In other words, the US makes reproduction a hobby for rich white women and their mates – i.e., parasites. Poor and especially poor non-white women are granted the “mercy” of termination. Every working class person has either been in that situation or knows someone who has.
Furthermore, I would say to anti-abortion activists that, unlike liberals and radlibs, I don’t make a fetish of abortion. If they want to set up a system, such as existed in Stalin’s Russia and which exists in present day Nicaragua, where abortion is illegal but extensive social services exist for pregnant women, I would have no particular objection. Socialism is different in different countries, and the flourishing of the working class in their particular material setting is more important than any abstract liberal “right.”
what are you going to tell the rightwing antigovernment people
That their distrust of government, this particular goverment, is more than merited. I too am opposed to the US goverment. We want very different things to come after. But because historical and dialectical materialism are a thing, any actual effective movement against the US government will take place in the context of the ongoing global anti-imperialist struggle – which latter is moving objectively towards socialism.
what are you going to tell the fascists and nazis
Do you mean the Democrats who are arming and funding ideoogical Nazis in Ukraine?
what are you going to tell the racist rural white folk and the bible belt
Lemmygrad rules prevent me from saying just how much this disgusts me. I lived among these people. A lot of them hold stupid views and are not sensitive in their language, but few of them are actual racists; I’ve encountered real, blatant racism far more often among the middle class. What working class are you actually in support of? College-educated champagne socialists with apartments in New York and LA?
And there you have it, my plan to take over the Republican party. It wouldn’t work. But I’d have at least as much success as you “progressives” have ever had in taking over the Democrats.
You cannot fix the Democrat party from the inside. Shit, you cannot fix the USA from the inside. It’s not broken, it’s working perfectly as designed. You can’t vote your way out of this shit. Not if you had 500 years to do it instead of 20.
Honestly, once you hit 25 or whatever pick a party and run. Green or libertarian would be easiest. Whatever fits where you live. It gives you a different perspective on elections.
You have it flipped, we don’t support NATO’s war of aggression against Russia.
Ukrainian President Yanukovych chose to have closer ties with Russia, which resulted in the Euromaidan coup in 2013-14, which directly caused this war.
I support the people of Ukraine and would like to see peace. The Zelensky government should end the war and cede Russia the land whose people want to return to Russia anyways.
I don’t even know what a lot of the stuff means anymore tbh. I just consider myself economically classically liberal and true centrist on social issues
The people focusing hard on the social far left and far right are distracting people from the fact that the government is not helping out the common person economically.
Frankly I think inflation is kind of here to stay for a while as the US painfully weans itself out of China and a world with a bunch of cheap former Soviet raw material inputs, nevermind a global wheat shortage due to the situation in Ukraine.
The fed really does have to slowly jack up rates to create a bigger buffer for the next hard recession. What this means, I my very limited understanding, is that everything just costs more until supply is consolidated back home and nearby places like Canada, Mexico, and some Central American countries
I don’t even know what a lot of the stuff means anymore tbh. I just consider myself economically classically liberal and true centrist on social issues
The economics understander (as per 7th grade social studies) has entered the chat.
The people focusing hard on the social far left and far right are distracting people from the fact that the government is not helping out the common person economically.
If you’re talking about culture war crap, then sure, I agree. It’s manufactured outrage to distract from class issues.
The fed really does have to slowly jack up rates to create a bigger buffer for the next hard recession.
So you acknowledge the government isn’t helping the working class, and then proceed to support the government not helping? Do you believe in Reaganomics by any chance?
Most Democrat politicians are neo-liberals, meaning they are conservatives by all global standards.
We need progressives to take over the Dem party. If you are young and progressive, especially if you are in a shitty dead-end job, run for office. Do it. Local or national.
Sign up, go through the process, announce it for fun on social media. If nothing happens, it was a funny, enlightening experience. There is no upper limit to what can be accomplished if you actually start winning races, though.
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People who want a 3rd party must not remember the 90s.
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That’s okay, we just want a Communist Party. The other parties can go.
The third party approach has been proven ineffective. Party take-overs, however, are so effective that I have witnessed it multiple times in my lifetime. The Republicans have been taken over twice in just the past two decades.
Dominating a party that is not one of the two recognized standard parties will only divide votes and disempower us. Encouraging progressives to form a third party is literally a strategy that has been pushed by conservatives several times. It’s important we see the value in taking over the existing juggernaut instead.
Why not take over the republican party rather than or as well as the democrats if these actions are successful. Because so far the democrats are very much hardened against progressives. Look at your AOC and how she’s now indistinguishable from Pelosi an activist who supposedly cared about implementing uhc. Also gonna say look at how Bernie who wanted moderate reform had a massively corrupt primary and the media complex come crashing down on him.
Because you’d have to run on a whole lot of bullshit arguments and by the end of it (if you make it there) you’re just another brainwashed republican. A takeover is not a sudden process it’s slowly boiling the frog and you can’t take over the regressive republicans with a progressive argument set. They would laugh you out of the room. Your platform has to be similar enough that they tolerate you.
You wanna take over the republicans only with “I wanna be against dems”? Try it. But what are you gonna tell the antiabortionists, what are you going to tell the rightwing antigovernment people, what are you going to tell the fascists and nazis and what are you going to tell the racist rural white folk and the bible belt? Are you going to support prolifers suddenly, are you suddenly going to rant against the criminal black population? Congrats, you successfully integrated into the republicans and became invisible.
Let me see, when did “progressives” start turning on the heat? Must have been, oh, 2003 with the Kerry campaign. A good twenty years (at least), with nothing to show for it but lots of corpses in Iraq and Syria and the Ukraine. That’s a slow burn, all right.
All right, I’ll entertain this thought experiment.
I’d tell them that while I may not agree in total with their beliefs, anti-abortion sentiment recognizes a fundamental truth, which is that in the US, abortion is promoted as genocidal tool against the working class. And this is something nobody wants to talk about. Working class people have the most abortions, but also tend, statistically, to oppose abortion more. This is because for many working class women, abortion is a matter of economic neccesity; they would have liked to carry a pregnancy to term, but had to abort so that they could continue to pay rent and put food on the table. In other words, the US makes reproduction a hobby for rich white women and their mates – i.e., parasites. Poor and especially poor non-white women are granted the “mercy” of termination. Every working class person has either been in that situation or knows someone who has.
Furthermore, I would say to anti-abortion activists that, unlike liberals and radlibs, I don’t make a fetish of abortion. If they want to set up a system, such as existed in Stalin’s Russia and which exists in present day Nicaragua, where abortion is illegal but extensive social services exist for pregnant women, I would have no particular objection. Socialism is different in different countries, and the flourishing of the working class in their particular material setting is more important than any abstract liberal “right.”
That their distrust of government, this particular goverment, is more than merited. I too am opposed to the US goverment. We want very different things to come after. But because historical and dialectical materialism are a thing, any actual effective movement against the US government will take place in the context of the ongoing global anti-imperialist struggle – which latter is moving objectively towards socialism.
Do you mean the Democrats who are arming and funding ideoogical Nazis in Ukraine?
Lemmygrad rules prevent me from saying just how much this disgusts me. I lived among these people. A lot of them hold stupid views and are not sensitive in their language, but few of them are actual racists; I’ve encountered real, blatant racism far more often among the middle class. What working class are you actually in support of? College-educated champagne socialists with apartments in New York and LA?
And there you have it, my plan to take over the Republican party. It wouldn’t work. But I’d have at least as much success as you “progressives” have ever had in taking over the Democrats.
Your commentary is nonsense and easily dismissed. Nice try, though?
Your upset just illustrates how afraid conservatives are that progressives could take over the Democrats. Thank you for that!
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Then says nothing to dismiss it or why. Classic lib behavior to simply not engage with what people are saying and just handwave criticisms away.
You cannot fix the Democrat party from the inside. Shit, you cannot fix the USA from the inside. It’s not broken, it’s working perfectly as designed. You can’t vote your way out of this shit. Not if you had 500 years to do it instead of 20.
We had several great progressives running in last years primary and general up near Seattle. All were crushed by incumbents.
Guess folks just like the way things are.
Honestly, once you hit 25 or whatever pick a party and run. Green or libertarian would be easiest. Whatever fits where you live. It gives you a different perspective on elections.
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My friend, you are in the wrong space. This is a space for people who are actually interested in studying political economy, not bad faith morons.
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You have it flipped, we don’t support NATO’s war of aggression against Russia.
Ukrainian President Yanukovych chose to have closer ties with Russia, which resulted in the Euromaidan coup in 2013-14, which directly caused this war.
I support the people of Ukraine and would like to see peace. The Zelensky government should end the war and cede Russia the land whose people want to return to Russia anyways.
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Maybe we should call y’all tankies since y’all keep starting wars everywhere and have no interest in peace
I don’t even know what a lot of the stuff means anymore tbh. I just consider myself economically classically liberal and true centrist on social issues
The people focusing hard on the social far left and far right are distracting people from the fact that the government is not helping out the common person economically.
Frankly I think inflation is kind of here to stay for a while as the US painfully weans itself out of China and a world with a bunch of cheap former Soviet raw material inputs, nevermind a global wheat shortage due to the situation in Ukraine.
The fed really does have to slowly jack up rates to create a bigger buffer for the next hard recession. What this means, I my very limited understanding, is that everything just costs more until supply is consolidated back home and nearby places like Canada, Mexico, and some Central American countries
The economics understander (as per 7th grade social studies) has entered the chat.
If you’re talking about culture war crap, then sure, I agree. It’s manufactured outrage to distract from class issues.
So you acknowledge the government isn’t helping the working class, and then proceed to support the government not helping? Do you believe in Reaganomics by any chance?