Considering he was an asset to the US military, he technically did material damage to the US military too…
The material damage done my hamas against the IDF was mostly political, and could only be assessed months after the attack because of the repercussion of actions of Israeli government. If the political setback wasn’t there, the attack would have been just a “terror suicide attack against party goers”.
I think the odds for nothing much to have happened were pretty high at the time. Just like many times before.
I think this man’s acts are likely to result in nothing. But it was an attack against the US military forces image. What happens from it depends on the political agents now. The US media and military, the international media, and peer to peer social networks.
You cannot be serious downplaying the Oct7 operation, it was a massive success for Hamas. Might very well be the most succesful operation against Israel or the US in the region and you’re downplaying it and even putting it side to side to a guy killing himself in protest, get this idealistic nonsense out of here.
Objectively, and immediately, what oct7 achieved? An incursion into occupied territory and a number of hostages captured. Did I miss anything?
Assuming I didn’t miss anything immense, In the grand scheme of matters, by itself, it doesn’t hurt Israel that much.
Great operational success, but if Israel did absolutely nothing, it would have faded from the international news cycle in 2 weeks. Some pressure would have boiled internally, and Netanyahu would have been removed from power and prosecuted for corruption, finally. But, again, by itself, nothing would have changed in material conditions for the Palestinian cause.
What do you think I’m missing, here?
The unfolding desperation of fascist elites in Israel caused an international backlash of huge proportions. Which was apparently the actual goal of hamas. Also with great success. My point is that there was a risk that that actual goal didn’t obtain success. The conditions were right, and success unfolded. Good.
With this case, I think it’s too early to evaluate the unfolding impact of this act on internal public opinion of US population.
Operationally, it was successful. Guy went there, did his thing, hurt no civilians, got media coverage, is not suffering anymore. Without any unfolding from external actors, it’s likely to go nowhere. Are the conditions right to have this go somewhere? It’s a long shot, but let’s hope so.
They killed soldiers including high ranking officers, they destroyed military equipment and military infrastructure, they did MATERIAL DAMAGE to their military capabilities. The sum of material victories is what wins wars, not fucking vibes on media, you understand this right? JFC it’s not that hard. Guy killing himself does NOTHING to Israel military capabilities, NOTHING.
Hey listen comrade, when thousands of brown men die for Palestine they did nothing, But this one white guy setting himself on fire will bring down the empire trust me bro.
I forgot about the high ranking officers, good point.
Still, by itself, it didn’t change the policial landscape! By itself, it’s barely a victory. Some destruction and violence. Some humiliation. Some setbacks, but Israel and its allies could easily recover from it. To call it a material victory, by itself? It’s a stretch.
It was a very successful, heroic, hail mary, though. For the mistakes it caused the zionists to commit, and the support it gathered from the international community, it strengthens the Palestinian cause.
By themselves, Palestinians can’t achieve a military victory against Israel and its allies. They barely had (and still barely have) support of neighboring Arab countries. Iran isn’t an Arab country. Unfortunately media vibes was kind of a last hope, in this case. That’s where the material victory was.
Let’s hope Mr burning man sparks something bigger than himself.
I wish I could make the point shorter. Thanks for the conversation, comrade.
Still, by itself, it didn’t change the political landscape!
What? You can’t just look at the operation by itself, you also must consider what led to that point and what happens after. You pointed out the impact Oct 7 had yourself.
These events do not happen in a vacuum and should not be considered so.
at least sabotage something before immolating yourself, this kind of protest is nonsense.
Something similar could be said about hamas’ flood operation. That it achieved nothing (much), other than zionists fury.
Hopefully his sacrifice, from his own in-empire position, could get some political traction? Unlikely, but not impossible, I think.
Edit: in parenthesis
??? They did material damage to the israeli military, it is insane that you compare these two things.
Considering he was an asset to the US military, he technically did material damage to the US military too…
The material damage done my hamas against the IDF was mostly political, and could only be assessed months after the attack because of the repercussion of actions of Israeli government. If the political setback wasn’t there, the attack would have been just a “terror suicide attack against party goers”.
I think the odds for nothing much to have happened were pretty high at the time. Just like many times before.
I think this man’s acts are likely to result in nothing. But it was an attack against the US military forces image. What happens from it depends on the political agents now. The US media and military, the international media, and peer to peer social networks.
You cannot be serious downplaying the Oct7 operation, it was a massive success for Hamas. Might very well be the most succesful operation against Israel or the US in the region and you’re downplaying it and even putting it side to side to a guy killing himself in protest, get this idealistic nonsense out of here.
Objectively, and immediately, what oct7 achieved? An incursion into occupied territory and a number of hostages captured. Did I miss anything?
Assuming I didn’t miss anything immense, In the grand scheme of matters, by itself, it doesn’t hurt Israel that much.
Great operational success, but if Israel did absolutely nothing, it would have faded from the international news cycle in 2 weeks. Some pressure would have boiled internally, and Netanyahu would have been removed from power and prosecuted for corruption, finally. But, again, by itself, nothing would have changed in material conditions for the Palestinian cause.
What do you think I’m missing, here?
The unfolding desperation of fascist elites in Israel caused an international backlash of huge proportions. Which was apparently the actual goal of hamas. Also with great success. My point is that there was a risk that that actual goal didn’t obtain success. The conditions were right, and success unfolded. Good.
With this case, I think it’s too early to evaluate the unfolding impact of this act on internal public opinion of US population.
Operationally, it was successful. Guy went there, did his thing, hurt no civilians, got media coverage, is not suffering anymore. Without any unfolding from external actors, it’s likely to go nowhere. Are the conditions right to have this go somewhere? It’s a long shot, but let’s hope so.
They killed soldiers including high ranking officers, they destroyed military equipment and military infrastructure, they did MATERIAL DAMAGE to their military capabilities. The sum of material victories is what wins wars, not fucking vibes on media, you understand this right? JFC it’s not that hard. Guy killing himself does NOTHING to Israel military capabilities, NOTHING.
Hey listen comrade, when thousands of brown men die for Palestine they did nothing, But this one white guy setting himself on fire will bring down the empire trust me bro.
White saviour complex at its best.
I forgot about the high ranking officers, good point.
Still, by itself, it didn’t change the policial landscape! By itself, it’s barely a victory. Some destruction and violence. Some humiliation. Some setbacks, but Israel and its allies could easily recover from it. To call it a material victory, by itself? It’s a stretch.
It was a very successful, heroic, hail mary, though. For the mistakes it caused the zionists to commit, and the support it gathered from the international community, it strengthens the Palestinian cause.
By themselves, Palestinians can’t achieve a military victory against Israel and its allies. They barely had (and still barely have) support of neighboring Arab countries. Iran isn’t an Arab country. Unfortunately media vibes was kind of a last hope, in this case. That’s where the material victory was.
Let’s hope Mr burning man sparks something bigger than himself.
I wish I could make the point shorter. Thanks for the conversation, comrade.
What? You can’t just look at the operation by itself, you also must consider what led to that point and what happens after. You pointed out the impact Oct 7 had yourself.
These events do not happen in a vacuum and should not be considered so.