cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/297928

As you have all noticed, this seems to be a point of contention here. This is a good thing, since it means someone will learn something.

Now we seem to be all over the place, with this general area of thought, provoking many questions. Whether or not PatSocs are socially conservative, what is position on social conservatism? Many of us are very young, both in age and ML experience, so an online discussion would be a great learning tool.

  1. Are socially conservative individuals allowed to be apart of the leftist movement?
  • A. Are socially conservative individuals victims of bourgeois propaganda? -B. If socially conservative people are turned away by the left, where do they go? -C. How high of a position would a social conservative be allowed in a ML party? -D. How has or will MLs educate socially conservative folk? -E. &tc, &tc.
  1. What exactly is Patriotism? -A. Does patriotism depend on culture? -B Is possible for a distinction between patriotism for a country and wanting to abolish the state? -C. Is patriotism corrupted in the Core? -D How have post imperialist countries with Communist experiments built patriotism? -E. &Tc &TC

  2. Who even are the PatSocs? -A. If the label is too convuluted, should we make a distinction between Maupin and American exceptionalists? -B. Who of the leaders do we consider MLs? -C. Should patriotic socialist be distinct from socialism or is inherent in socialism? -D. How much do WE even know if PatSocs? -E. &Tc, &tc

We can look at the USSR and GDR for these questions. Remember the Hammer and Sickel came from somewhere.

Things to look out for about the US: -It is the imperialist power, AND a settler state. -Low levels of cultural development -The culture that is there is taken from marginalized groups. -Americas are the most propagandized people in the World. -It is huge and incredibly diverse

More questions about the US could follow: -Should the US be balkanized? If so how does patriotism be built in balkanized regions? -How does land back go about? Will indigenous countries emerge, and if so should we reconsider American MLs as different MLs for the Regions in North America. -If see different nations and regions in North America how does that affect culture? Is the question of how we view the land a prerequisite to discussing patriotism, is it contradictory to call yourself an American Patriot if you decide to divide up the land until regions?

There is so much potential for deep political for North American based Comrades, this is a rabbit hole I do want to delve into. I’ll cross post this to GZD but I want it mainly on Leftist Infighting.

  • @SaddamHussein24
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    2 years ago

    The KKE DOES NOT consider Russia imperialist, where did you get that from? (Edit: My bad, they do, i didnt know that) Also apparently when J Sakai has stupid opinions on China that doesnt discredit him, but when communist parties that disprove your revisionism do it then it does discredit them. Curious how it works.

    • Muad'DibberA
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      52 years ago

      The difference: we don’t have to listen to sakai or parenti or any number of western leftists when it comes to china, something they have no familiarity with.

      Taking “expertise” from chauvinist eurocommunist parties when it comes to imperialism and settler-colonialism, is like listening to a 3rd grader giving a physics lecture.

      • @SaddamHussein24
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        2 years ago

        I do want to add though, that despite our heavy disagreements and heated discussion tonight, that you are still my comrade and hope we can reach a friendly resolution to this debate soon. I also want to applaud your extreme professionalism today as a mod. I really thought you would ban me in a fit of rage or something today, but im very happy to have been proven wrong. Im proud Lemmygrad has professional mods like you who can be objective and separate their views from moderation. I look forward to have more amicable and friendly interactions and debates here on Lemmygrad with you in the future, despite our heavy disagreement tonight! I want to make clear that you are still my Comrade. I salute you Comrade Muad Dibber! O7

      • @SaddamHussein24
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        12 years ago

        How is the KKE chauvinist? Just because they are patriotic? Who are they being chauvinist against? EU bureoucrats? Jens Stoltenberg?