Got in a somewhat argument with a friend about this. I was under the impression that it was essentially far right with a different name for the sake of being different. His take was “It’s like just the good parts of socialism”
Got in a somewhat argument with a friend about this. I was under the impression that it was essentially far right with a different name for the sake of being different. His take was “It’s like just the good parts of socialism”
Literally wrong. The Kirchners and the current president of Argentina are peronists and they are leftists. They eliminated neoliberalism, are against the IMF and they support antiimperialist nations like Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, Russia, China, etc
I am an Argentinian and I can tell you it’s not like that. There were two main groups of Peronists, right wing Peronists (who are the ones who supported the most radical politics that involved distribution of good and such, but where orthodox Catholics and more reactionaries) who were called “la vieja guardia sindical", and left wing Peronists (who were not so interested with politics regarding welfare State but weren’t so conservative) who were called “Montoneros”. Kirchners are an offspring of this later group, and they are not Peronists, they are Kirchnerist, which yeah holds a lot of the values of Perón but they made it into their own thing. Kirchnerism didn’t eliminate neoliberalism, they are neoliberals, just left wing neoliberals, but their politics don’t come even close to what Perón or Evita politics were, they are a fucking joke, the last good government was under Nestor after the 2001 crisis because our country was totally devastated and drastic measures were necessary or else you would have obliterated the country. Then year after year they have just become less and less interested in Keynesian politics, nowadays they take basically none, sure, they support other Latin American populists parties and so on, but that doesn’t go much further and it doesn’t improve the lives of the Argentinian people. Having good relations with China for example doesn’t mean much, under Macri’s government we still had them, maybe they weren’t as positive, but as an Argentinian you literally cannot not have economic relations with China because it means the death for us since we export to them most of our agrarian products. With this I’m not saying I prefer Macri, of course we are better off with Kirchnerism but don’t be fooled to think we are going to achieve meaningful change with them.
Here you have a video of Perón chasing the Montoneros out in favour of right wing Peronism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCzpf3YPML8
Also i think having Argentina not supporting US imperialism is a pretty important thing dont you think? Imperialism is the most important contradiction right now.
Of course it is important, but right now Kirchnerism is turning more and more into your typical democrat party in the US where they become virtually useless and the difference between them and the republicans is almost non existent, they have better international politics but when it comes to improving things here they do virtually nothing. If you compare it to 10 years ago they were creating plans for house building, giving more social plans, giving computers away to students and so on, now the the house building is gone, social plans are lame, they don’t give computers and they still support the bourgeoisie.
I dont deny this, but in this day and age, having a government that doesnt bow to US foreign policy is honestly exceptional. Most governments in the world are following the current “Russia and China bad” crap like NPCs. So the kirchners are indeed great imo.
Yeah, I agree, that’s why I would always support Lula over Bolsonaro or almost any other Brazilian politician, but I think we need to start creating alternatives, because these parties are becoming more and more right wingers and there isn’t some real alternative. Good thing is that with US empire in decline we may get place for some new stuff.
Hope I didn’t sound aggressive during debate, thanks comrade you made me rethink some stuff.
I agree. Again we must follow Lenins strategy, which as far as im aware the Communist Party of Argentina follows. You must have an independent workers party, the Communist Party, but you make electoral coalition with bourgeois leftists like the kirchners, both for antiimperialist purposes and to show the people the uselessness of electoralism. The most important fight is in the streets, not in the ballot boxes. Besides, now the priority is bringing down US imperialism. Once that is done a new struggle will begin between workers and bourgeois parties all over the world, including in Argentina. Same as the struggle between aristocracy and bourgeoisie. The marxists supported the bourgeoisie, and once feudalism was over the fight between bourgeoisie and workers began.
Its ok comrade, debating is vital to marxism. Saludos camarada argentino! (Soy español) O7
Sí, el PCA es bastante piola, lastima que hay tanto fraccionamiento entre los 15 partidos comunistas (y encima el troskismo es bastante relevante acá) que no tienen tanto apoyo entonces la izquierda marxista esta dividida en trescientas agrupaciones al pedo. Pero bueno, se hace lo que se puede.
¡Saludos viejita!
Que significa “el PCA es bastante piola”? Que aqui no usamos esta expresión xd
The Kirchners are literally attacked constantly by the US. They are leftists. Sure, they arent communists, they are social democrats, but they are much better than the latin american standard fascist. They investigated the crimes of the Videla dictatorship and are antiimperialists. Thats a fact. Perón was a left wing social democrat. As i already said in my original comment, he became a reactionary in the 1970s when he started massacring leftists including left wing peronists. I already said this, so why do you repeat it?
I mean, they are centre left I guess, neoliberals who go for more progressive politics, but that’s it, of course they are better than average fascist or Bolsonaro and so on, but they aren’t great either. What bothers me more is the they are the reason why communist parties don’t have greater support, since they absorb all the leftist people. I think investigating the crimes of some military dictator is the least thing you could do.
Because in my opinion he didn’t became a reactionary in the 70’s, his heart always stood with right wing peronism, he supported left wing peronism because it gave him greater popular support and everything was constantly begin stirred by military dictatorships so he didn’t have much of an option, what happened is just his ideas coming to a realization.
Fair enough.
I won’t deny though that in praxis his politics throughout the years resemble a lot to people like Gadaffi and are very akin to socialist countries (not marxists). I didn’t want to say he was a fascist, just that he had varied ideas which dance on one political spectre and the other.
Exactly, thats what i meant to say.