This is a serious question, I want to understand your views. I know very little about the Chinese system, but from what I know it doesn’t seem to be very communist at all, but rather a capitalist state to rival the US. Why do you all defend it so viciously?
'Kay. Everyone else here has said basically all i wanna say.
Back before i was an ML, i thought China was 'not really socialist. I believed all the BS Chris Hedges [trotskyist] said about the place.
And i STILL supported them. Because they are THE bulwark against imperialism.
No having read up, and investigated, they are socialist. Marxist-Leninist trough and through.
so, here is all the info i have on hand going over the socialist/capitalist argument:
Yes, China is socialist: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VEeabfuAeAt_NU5KNHmGh0c9MKrQaIgtXExxmhmur68/?fbclid=IwAR0qTwbGMx-xc-BUhumsbT7NJ8KZTO-X5S-IgK9a2TuQY7zJVaFBt1dr0ag https://monthlyreview.org/2018/10/01/on-the-nature-of-the-chinese-economic-system/ China is in an early stage of socialism. Consider this quote: “If you want to talk about socialism, let us not forget what socialism achieved in China. At one time it was the land of hunger, poverty, disasters. Today there is none of that. Today China can feed, dress, educate, and care for the health of 1.2 billion people. I think China is a socialist country, and Vietnam is a socialist nation as well. And they insist that they have introduced all the necessary reforms in order to motivate national development and to continue seeking the objectives of socialism. There are no fully pure regimes or systems. In Cuba, for instance, we have many forms of private property. We have hundreds of thousands of farm owners. In some cases they own up to 110 acres. In Europe they would be considered large landholders. Practically all Cubans own their own home and, what is more, we welcome foreign investment. But that does not mean that Cuba has stopped being socialist.” — Fidel Castro, 1994 And this: “Will it be possible for private property to be abolished at one stroke? No, no more than existing forces of production can at one stroke be multiplied to the extent necessary for the creation of a communal society. In all probability, the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually and will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity.” — Friedrich Engels, 1847 Further reading: Is China truly socialist? Consider these:
A study by Domenico Losurdo, University of Urbino: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=519387068599050&id=449358525601905
A paper by Ajit Singh, University of Manitoba: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=498438047360619&id=449358525601905
A speech by Xi Jinping on socialism with Chinese characteristics: https://www.facebook.com/notes/joshua-hanks/uphold-and-develop-socialism-with-chinese-characteristics/10157087761668190/ https://return2source.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/china-market-socialism-a-question-of-state-revolution/ “China’s state sector, meaning government owned businesses, dominates the national economy, and its presence is being felt, more and more, across our Pale Blue Dot. There are 155,000 state owned enterprises (SOEs) in China, in every imaginable sector and industry. Their book value is US$17.4 trillion, more than America’s annual GDP. Since the 1990s, China has been and continues to adopt capitalist practices to make its SOEs perform better and be more transparent. A number of them are selling a portion of their ownership to the public, by listing shares on Chinese stock markets, keeping the vast majority of ownership in government hands, usually up to a 70% government-30% stock split. This sort of shareholder accountability has improved the performance of China’s SOEs, which is Baba Beijing’s goal.” http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/08/20/the-myth-of-chinese-capitalism-2/
“He [Deng Xiaoping] called on the Marxists to realize “that poverty is not socialism, that socialism means eliminating poverty.” He wanted one thing to be absolutely clear: “Unless you are developing the productive forces and raising people’s living standards, you cannot say you are building socialism.” No, “there can be no communism with pauperism, or socialism with pauperism. So to get rich is no sin.” Deng Xiaoping had the historic merit of understanding that socialism had nothing to do with the more or less egalitarian distribution of poverty and privation. In the eyes of Marx and Engels, socialism was superior to capitalism not only because it ensured a more equitable distribution of resources but also, and especially, because it ensured a faster and more equal development of social wealth, and to achieve this goal, socialism stimulated competition by affirming and putting into practice the principle of remuneration according to the quantity and quality of work delivered. https://www.google.com/amp/s/sociologicalfragments.com/2019/05/13/has-china-turned-to-capitalism-reflections-on-the-transition-from-capitalism-to-socialism/amp/ https://return2source.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/china-market-socialism-a-question-of-state-revolution/
No, China is not capitalist: https://chinareporting.blogspot.com/2009/11/class-nature-of-chinese-state-critique_26.html?m=1 https://k-j-w1996.tumblr.com/post/619938649440714752/dialectical-analysis-of-chinese-political-economy https://izaknovak.wordpress.com/2020/07/15/is-the-us-china-conflict-simply-inter-capitalist/ https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/02/17/is-china-capitalist/ https://popularresistance.org/why-is-china-painted-as-capitalist-by-western-media/ https://return2source.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/china-market-socialism-a-question-of-state-revolution/ No, China is not Imperialist. https://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/05/06/russia-and-china-are-not-imperialist/ https://medium.com/@rainershea612/catagorically-debunking-the-claim-that-china-is-imperialist-a9ae7b280a44 https://www.brookings.edu/blog/africa-in-focus/2020/06/09/chinas-debt-relief-for-africa-emerging-deliberations/ https://chinaafricaproject.com/2019/12/18/deborah-brautigam-debunks-the-chinese-debt-trap-theory-in-new-research-paper/ https://news.abs-cbn.com/news/03/09/19/china-debt-trap-ph-an-expert-in-bad-loans-locsin-says https://reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21Y3KN?__twitter_impression=true http://www.sundaytimes.lk/170319/news/hambantota-port-deal-two-major-clauses-to-appease-critics-233515.html https://rainershea.com/f/china-isn’t-imperialist-it’s-the-great-ally-of-global-socialism China/Africa: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oeo4OVLUlWDk2NZI3UO6rl6bzVdiSQOdJYRukPffJA4/edit https://medium.com/@leohezhao/china-africa-a-new-accord-e375a6ffe535 https://www.workers.org/2020/05/48572/ https://liberationschool.org/five-imperialist-myths-about-chinas-role-in-africa/ https://qz.com/africa/1379457/china-africa-summit-african-leaders-praise-relations-with-beijing/
The long game: https://medium.com/@leohezhao/the-long-game-and-its-contradictions-8ff92823cf68 On ‘State Capitalism: “it is only possible to achieve real liberation in the real world by employing real means, that slavery cannot be abolished without the steam-engine and the mule and spinning-jenny, serfdom cannot be abolished without improved agriculture, and that, in general, people cannot be liberated as long as they are unable to obtain food and drink, housing and clothing in adequate quality and quantity. “Liberation” is an historical and not a mental act, and it is brought about by historical conditions, the development of industry, commerce, agriculture, the conditions of intercourse”. –––– Karl Marx A more accurate view of “state capitalism” is not as betrayal, but a necessary phase, in the long and arduous process of building socialism, in the context of a world market dominated by the logic of capital. The only other options for under developed socialist states are capitulation or death. In so-called “state capitalism”, there are private companies which exist within state managed sectors, they are all completely answerable to the communist party, and must put the interest of the people before profits. Here is what Lenin himself had to say about the matter: “For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly” “The state capitalism, which is one of the principal aspects of the New Economic Policy, is, under Soviet power, a form of capitalism that is deliberately permitted and restricted by the working class. Our state capitalism differs essentially from the state capitalism in countries that have bourgeois governments in that the state with us is represented not by the bourgeoisie, but by the proletariat, who has succeeded in winning the full confidence of the peasantry. Unfortunately, the introduction of state capitalism with us is not proceeding as quickly as we would like it. For example, so far we have not had a single important concession, and without foreign capital to help develop our economy, the latter’s quick rehabilitation is inconceivable.” ––––– Vladimir Lenin “Capitalism is a bane compared with socialism. Capitalism is a boon compared with medievalism, small production, and the evils of bureaucracy which spring from the dispersal of the small producers. Inasmuch as we are as yet unable to pass directly from small production to socialism, some capitalism is inevitable as the elemental product of small production and exchange; so that we must utilise capitalism (particularly by directing it into the channels of state capitalism) as the intermediary link between small production and socialism, as a means, a path, and a method of increasing the productive forces.” ––– Lenin, “The Tax in Kind” (1921) https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/ichtci/11.htm "Within the limits indicated, however, this is not at all dangerous for socialism as long as transport and large-scale industry remain in the hands of the proletariat. On the contrary, the development of capitalism, controlled and regulated by the proleta