Hello, comrades!
I have created this community in no small part because I have been focusing hard on deconstructing negative behaviors and habits socialized into me from birth. I have been focusing on personal, professional and revolutionary growth.
Importantly, I’ve been reading bell hooks’ The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity and Love. It’s honestly brought me to tears more than a few times, and I’m only as of writing 60% of the way through it. I have not felt seen like this in what feels like a long time. Socialized and internalized patriarchal standards of living are actively destroying our potential as men to live, love, and achieve true self-actualization.
I highly recommend it to any man seeking to dismantle their internalized patriarchy. I also highly recommend it to feminist women and other non-men who innately fear us (rightly, much of the time), as hooks is intimately familiar with both the fear of males and male fear.
It is obvious that this manufactured fear cannot sustain life and love and it is up to all of us, regardless of gender or sex, to destroy the locus of this fear - as prof. hooks not-so-succinctly, yet aptly, puts it, imperialist white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.
I desired to create a space where I, other men, and all others interested can discuss our issues regarding patriarchal conditioning and potentially how we are working to overcome them. It can also serve as a space for women and those who do not identify with manhood to ask questions of men, and hopefully gain some insight, if they are so inclined.
What do you think?
I also ask graciously of you, comrades, that if, in my language revolving around gendered oppression, I fail to achieve a proper standard of trans and gender non-conforming inclusivity, you correct me. No offense will be taken, thank you.
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Sounds like a great idea. My only issue is the name as it sounds like this is lib community, but that is just my gut reaction, I guess you ran out of characters.
Overall I would like to engage in such community, I try to overcome these harmful habit and study about patriarchy, but it is difficult as I live in pretty non-progressive place. Having a place like this might help.
I thought about that! If I recall correctly, the reddit community was r/menslib, short for men’s liberation ofc, but “lib” very much is associated with liberalism especially in our communist space lol. Changed to “Men’s Liberation” 🫡
Men’s communisation
Men’s catgirlization
I could get behind that name 🙂
Essentially: “Men’s Liberation is basically a movement freeing men from the toxic as fuck and hyper gender stereotypical structure known as the patriarchy.” Which, based I suppose, supporting men into doing things considered “weird” but harmless like crossdressing or doing “feminine” activities like knitting and shit.
I read the title and my balls shriveled up thinking that some MGTOW redditor incel finally broke through the admin wall. But seeing it was you and then reading what you are trying to accomplish I can say that I wholeheartedly support this community and can’t wait to participate!
Do you think this will be a more grounded, serious, and theoretical space; or do you think it will be more about letting people talk through their experiences together and how they can change their thought/feelings/behaviors along with any questions they may have?
Haha it’s only a natural response! “Men’s Liberation”… from what? Usually feminism. 🙄 From patriarchy! Thank you for your kind words tho and I’m excited to see what lessons we can learn together 🙏
I’m hoping for a bit of both! I have the idea right now of picking out my favorite passages, quotes, pages etc. from the book and having scheduled discussion posts. I also want people to feel absolutely free to share their experiences with men or with being a man, with masculinity. I’m personally about to write a post about how I fucked up today! 😊 🫠
my friends I know it sounds so whatever speaking as the gender that more obviously benefits from patriarchy but bruh being a man is exhausting
Good idea. Men around the world have a lot to learn and unlearn.
Political education about all tendencies of feminism helps a lot. I listened to a pretty liberal but yet informative podcast on feminism (it’s in french so it’s hard to start a conversation about it right here), and despite having criticism I kept learning about this tendency and it made me think differently about a lot of things, and gave me a new angle of constructive criticism.
And overall the best exercise when you organise a bit is shutting up and listening to women even if you disagree. Card carrying TERFS being the exception for obvious reasons of defending trans people. But overall if a woman talks about her experiences and ideas even in a liberal or ultra leftist way we should just listen and be very careful in our criticism, think about it and not react instantly, not debating her or anything. It’s a practice that both empowers women in organisations and help you managing your biaises and urges to overpower women in discussion that patriarchy engrained in us
Ah and last thing, not being ultra horny and constantly seductive is very good
this looks nice, im in support of it
Thank you for the book recommendation! I’ve begun reading it, and so far it’s quite good.
I’m into this. Gonna check this book out for sure thanks for the recommendation.
TRIGGER WARNING: REFERENCES TO A SLUR (partially censored), ACTS OF SELF HARM, AND ABUSE
Comrade,
I am actually also in the process of reading that book and am at about the same point you are as of this comment! My next chapter is “Work: What’s Love Got To Do With It”.
I’ve also been finding this book extremely insightful, catching myself nodding many times going, “Wow… that is me… never met Bell and she sees right through me…”. I am very excited about this idea and definitely look forward to growing alongside other comrades who understand first hand what it is like to grow up and live as a man under patriarchy, while aware of both the harm we have endured, then the harm we have caused (and often continue to cause) as a result of the harm we have received. “Hurt people hurt people” they say.
There is a massive derth in helpful materials for men to learn how to understand then improve our behaviors. This is the first book that actually addresses why my dad, step-dad, and now me are (or were in the case of my dad and step-dad who both died depressed and angry) all, with the exception of anger and rage interspersed , emotionless husks. Most dads and step-dads I’ve met, whether my own or my friends’ fathers, we all this way. Many of my men teachers were this way too, and many others wore the “teacher happy mask” instead.
From my mother’s use of my father figure’s violence as a threat, to their emotional disconnect from the world, my father’s abuse and neglect, my school peers constant pressures to “not be a b***h” and macho culture, and me being naturally reserved why I prefer to have women friends (much less toxic). It explains so much as to why my gut reaction to things is usually anger driven.
My inability to manage my own rage has ended up with me involuntarily hospitalized from acts of self harm a number of times, to the tune of about $15,000.00 USD per incident in medical costs. Patriarchy is fucking real comrades.
This book has so far explained more than years of intermittent (and unreliable) therapy have, at least from a feminist perspective on systemic issues. Read it, comrades. Women and LGBTQ+ too.
And thank you comrades who have made it this far in my rant/review/whatever else this comment qualifies as. While reading this I’ve been hoping to find people to talk about this with, and I look forward to finally be a part of a like minded support network to help each other grow and explore our personal experiences.
TRIGGER WARNING: REFERENCES TO A SLUR (partially censored), ACTS OF SELF HARM, AND ABUSE
EDIT: Updated trigger warning, typos
I’ve also been finding this book extremely insightful, catching myself nodding many times going, “Wow… that is me… never met Bell and she sees right through me…”
I feel you 100%. It feels so strange to say that I needed this, I needed to witness my traumas and faults deconstructed and be led to alternatives, a healthier path to masculinity and self-love.
My inability to manage my own rage has ended up with me involuntarily hospitalized from acts of self harm a number of times, to the tune of about $15,000.00 USD per incident in medical costs. Patriarchy is fucking real comrades.
I have limited experience with hospitalization. Ten years ago when I was a young teen I was hospitalized in a juvenile center because I told my doctor that I wanted to redacted myself but lacked the energy. I was let go after a week and a day because my insurance stopped paying for care. I realize now that much of the reason I wanted to end it all was because I couldn’t control my life, and embarassingly yet honestly I couldn’t dominate the attention and emotions of the women around me.
Parents were neglectful, busy and horribly depressed themselves. Attention and love was a commodity I was willing to destroy people for. The consciousness of others never entered the equation. I needed love and I would get it by any means necessary, including emotional manipulation and narcissistic abuse. It was awful, but I forgive myself and have been forgiven by those I hurt, thankfully.
While reading this I’ve been hoping to find people to talk about this with, and I look forward to finally be a part of a like minded support network to help each other grow and explore our personal experiences.
I am so happy to hear about your excitement for this project, as I most certainly am excited, too!
When it comes to feminist praxis, I’ve found myself stuck on what to do as a man. I believe I have found the answer, or at least the beginning of one… we gotta evolve and destroy the shackles that bind us from actualizing ourselves and others, the shackles that bind us from complete empathy and genuine love. We gotta destroy our socialized inclination towards violence and domination and forge a new manhood based around mutual respect, honor, integrity and true strength - the strength not to harm, but to support, uplift and defend others. That’s what I think, anyway. 😊
… because I couldn’t control my life, and embarrassingly yet honestly I couldn’t dominate the attention and emotions of the women around me.
I feel this. That was me in middle school. I was bullied, had no friends, and my parents couldn’t provide on an emotional level. I felt as though I deserved to be liked by the girls I liked if I was nice. That whole “nice guy syndrome” thing applied to me. I wasn’t angry at individual women, but at the time I was angry with women as a whole. “Why would they like the assholes that treat me like shit, and would treat them like shit, when I want nothing more than to shower them in affection?” I would think to myself. Throughout all of middle school I was going down the incel rabbit hole.
Luckily, I number of changes happened in the summer between middle and high school and I was able to escape that, though it took a bit before I could start exploring feminism in depth.
Parents were neglectful, busy and horribly depressed themselves. Attention and love was a commodity I was willing to destroy people for.
Again, true here as well. I couldn’t hold a conversation about anything with my parents. They had zero interest in anything I liked and made sure I knew it. If I asked about “adult things” like how much something costs, for example the electricity bill, I’d be told it was none of my business (which also crippled my ability to manage finances and caused several problems throughout my adulthood). They provided food, water, electricity, a roof. That was all.
So then I get to middle school, no friends, stupid hormones going nuts with only “abstinence” being taught in my household and schools, and a serious interest in BDSM themes. I say the themes because at the time I didn’t know the acronym, only that as my hormones went wild it wasn’t fantasies of sex that took me, but rather of submitting myself to someone I cared about. It took until something like 8th grade to even know what the word virgin meant.
So then comes my craving for women’s attention because I was denied it at home, and patriarchy was teaching me that to have value, to not be bullied, I need to “have” (possession, again patriarchy talk) a girlfriend. My step-dad had a very domineering way of parenting, and so that was all I had to work with. I became a stalker, thinking that maybe if these women give me a chance and spend time with me, they’ll have to like me because I am nice.
Obviously, stalking isn’t nice. I did apologize later, and the women I hurt said they forgave me. I made sure never to bother them again, and ended contact. One apologetic message, one reply. Don’t need to re-traumatize them by having my face in their friends lists or whatever.
When it comes to feminist praxis, I’ve found myself stuck on what to do as a man. I believe I have found the answer, or at least the beginning of one… we gotta evolve and destroy the shackles that bind us from actualizing ourselves and others, the shackles that bind us from complete empathy and genuine love.
I agree, and the beautiful thing is that feminist praxis, much like vegan praxis, you can make a massive difference even if you focus on living the feminist ideals. As communists, we (should) already strive for much of the organizing that will liberate women and other oppressed peoples from exploitation in the wider system. Communists already want things like zero wage gap, equal vacations, equal political representation, etc and organize to do it. A Communist march is a feminist march is a black liberation march is a Pride march is a… the list goes on. But feminist praxis involves a cultural change, and cultural change happens when groups of individuals change. So by changing yourself, you are creating a larger group of changing people, which shifts the culture. Call out bigotry and hate for what it is, and make patriarch’s uncomfortable. Force them to change and adapt to a culture that is leaving them behind.
The best thing we men can do is learn to love. To really love. Not obsess like middle school bleepingblorp, but love. When we do that, everyone around us will know.
test comment please ignore
weird, I try replying to the other post but it just doesn’t process my comment
I was having the same issue but managed to comment thankfully, if you’re talkin about comrade bleepingblorp’s post.
Really pleased to find this community here. It was one of the places I was going to miss moving over from reddit, finding somewhere similar is great!
I am very glad to hear it!
I, as the creator and as a mod, must say I only went to that sub rather sparsely when I was younger as I did not believe myself to be a man. I hope that it can live up to the OG.
Idk if r/menslib was as hardcore tankie as here, but for transparency’s sake I love this website and consider myself a rather hardline ML and my own posts will reflect that. The sub, I suppose, takes the prevailing guideline that it is a space run by MLs but of course open to other self-identified socialists and Marxists (and others, if they must 😉) so long as everyone engages in good faith.
It’s funny you say you avoided it for not feeling like a man. I did the same with some spaces and activities for the same reason when I was younger.
I’m sure you’ll do a great job. You’re off to a good start already 😁
