What’s practical and effective for self defense?
whichever one you will stick with and actually practice, there are not really ‘more effective’ or ‘less effective’ styles in general/as a universal measure, outside of specific contexts. boxers lose to MMA fighters in MMA matches, MMA fighters lose to boxers in boxing matches. its more important to know how to read a situation and de-escalate or escape than how to throw a punch or do a fancy flying spinny kick. make sure to study self defense laws in your area as well, you might be surprised at the standards you are held to in terms of responsibility to flee or de-escalate. for example in amerikkka it is a ‘bad look’ in a legal sense to draw a firearm and point it at an assailant without firing, with the intent to intimidate/de-escalate, because you are only supposed to draw your weapon when you feel your life is in danger, and the fact that you did not immediately mag-dump your assailant will be used as legally incontrovertible proof that you did not genuinely fear for your life, especially if your target survives after you shoot them after they refuse to back down from your hollywood intimidation check. also any sport martial art is going to habituate you into ignoring eye gouges and groin attacks and the openings for such, since they are universally against any boxing/mma rules and for good reason. ww2 combatives, such as Get Tough written by W. E. Fairbairn, inventor of the famous fairbairn-sykes fighting knife from WW2, will at least give you an idea of what kinds of moves are lethal, what kind of moves people trying to genuinely ambush/kill you might use, how people approach for an ambush, etc. however, as a legal civilian, you may want to learn something like judo or aikido to avoid legally (or morally) costly injuries to your assailants - good luck convincing the jury (or yourself) you were in the right when your malnourished desperate drug addict assailant who is half your mass ends up with his head caved in while you, the athletic larger guy with scary martial arts training, are unscathed. depending on your context you might want to look into self defense tools or weapons like stun guns, tasers, mace/pepper spray, or even firearms. as a side note, i recommend open-hand/palm strikes and chops over punches for people who have not seriously conditioned their hands for bare-knuckle boxing or muay thai or the like. even with perfect technique you may hit a harder area than you intend, and WILL break your hand/wrist on their skull/knee/elbow, and its better to ‘only’ break your pinky finger bones with a chop than the ones in your wrist/knuckles with a punch.
Wrestling / BJJ and boxing, with an emphasis on defensive skills (footwork, head movement, stopping takedowns, clearing collar-ties, getting up quickly, etc.).
The value of unarmed self defense in a world with weapons is that you aren’t guaranteed a clean draw of your weapon, so having something to bridge the gap can be helpful. That’s really all though – beyond that weapons are entirely superior, with a little asterisk next to knives because it’s too easy for a stronger person to turn your own knife against you.
seconding BJJ or wrestling as focus (and learning to sprint well), boxing or kickboxing as second if you feel the need. The vast vast majority of civilian fights that can’t be de-escalated are not cinematic circling-and-striking but instead are very sloppy tantrums that immediately go from shoving, to clinching, to the ground. Being able to control someone’s limbs is important, especially if they might have a weapon and there is no de-escalation possible or as you said you can’t access yours if you have one. I also think something like a stun gun or mace would probably be safer option than a knife to end a fight. People, especially under adrenaline, can keep going not even realizing they’ve been stabbed 50 times, and by that point you’ve added a much more ugly variable thrown into the mix (and it’s also harder to grip somebody who is covered in blood)
That said always avoid fights or escape those circumstances if you can, and try to never be alone where fights might happen. And where there are fights, like serious fights with someone trying to do you harm, be as unfair and brutal as you can immediately.
In all seriousness probably BJJ unless you’re cool with head trauma in which case join a MMA gym. If you’re actually in some kind of altercation that you can’t just run away from for some reason, just knowing how to keep your balance & how to get on top then get away if you’re somehow taken down to the ground is the main thing. BJJ will teach you that. Mostly though, it’s just very very fun!
Agreed. BJJ for all your folding people in to pretzel needs. Add a striking style and some kind of stick-fighting style to round out your options.
Is it wise to cross train BJJ with a striking martial art like kickboxing or muay thai? Seems like most pro fighters cross train. Might be worth it for the OP.
Sure but if you spar you’re gonna get head trauma, and practicing techniques without sparring against a resisting opponent is not worth it IMO.
Always lean the way of the gun
銃術
100%. Firearms handling and shooting should be part of any serious martial arts repetoire.
Seriously even if you would never use a gun even to save yourself you should have enough familiarity with them to know how to safely remove the magazine and clear the chamber of any firearm you encounter.
Busting out my gun kata moves to impress everyone
It’s okay officer I have a license for these finger guns. Pew pew!
what about light sparring in boxing?
Up to your risk tolerance. With the discovery of CTE we know that repeated minor head trauma still causes long-term problems. IMO it’s too easy to overdo it especially once the blood gets pumping. I’ve gone to more BJJ classes than I can count thinking “ah I have a few injuries, I’ll just roll light” and then it turns into repeated deathmatches.
i like bjj cuz it taught me ways to pain-immobilize someone without doing lasting damage (armbar, rear-naked choke), which has come in handy with drunk friends and such.
For anything that will realistically happen in real life? Boxing and kickboxing. Both of which are primarily about fitness, form and proper technique delivering a hit. Any bare knuckle streetfight is over in seconds and determined by one or two very clear hits.
Anecdotally the boxers I’ve known tend to carry themselves in a way that scares people enough to not even start fights with them. Whereas the kickboxers I’ve known regularly would get into and win fights, scrappy little shits.
This might be entirely coincidence or it might say something about the personality types drawn to the different sports.
If money were no object, I’d def be taking muay thai classes.
Muay Thai is a bit more about aggression compared to kickboxing. Not a bad thing, just different. I did kickboxing for a number of years and enjoyed getting my energy out. As for what’s better in the street? Not really sure. I might be inclined to say Muay Thai probably for indoors where going in would be better but kickboxing probably for outdoors with more space? You keep your distance more in kickboxing which is less valid in an indoor fight but all the movement is pretty valuable with plenty of space.
The true answer is that martial arts aren’t practical or effective for self-defense
why not?
most ‘street fights’ are either drunken brawls that could have been easily de-escalated, after which the ‘victor’ will face the worst legal consequences, or are otherwise ambush attacks (likely with weapons and multiple assailants) that you realistically have no chance of defending against since you will never see it coming (source: dad was a bouncer during cocaine days of the 80’s). when the mugger has you at gunpoint it doesnt matter if you know karate, just give him your stuff. if some gang is trying to kill you they will stab/shoot/garrote/kidnap/drug you before you realize you are in any danger, likely with at least 2 or 3 attackers. situational awareness is more useful than knowing how to punch/kick/wrestle 99.99 percent of the time and even in the 0.01 percent that it is slightly useful you will likely still be outnumbered and get your head stomped as you go for that epic takedown you trained for so long.
could have been easily de-escalated
“could have” is the point. Sometimes even if it “could have” it isn’t. Better to have something that might not need be used than vice versa. OP also isn’t guaranteed to always be alone in situations that can’t be de-escalated (and plenty of fights happen with prior warning, belligerence etc.). It is always better to be able to contribute than not if your friend is attacked or some other thing happens.
And you bringing up mugging is irrelevant, because nobody would ever say that someone who has you at gunpoint in a mugging should be struggled against, martial arts or not. No serious martial arts instructor would ever recommend or even float that as an option. You always give them your shit. That’s not what self-defense is for, fighting back against armed muggers.
Having a gun can help de-escalate through threat if there’s distance and it hasn’t broken out, but if a fight has already started or the distance can be closed before you can access it or even worse after you’ve drawn it but can’t point and fire it, now you’ve added a lethal variable and turned a fight of-some-kind into an almost certainly lethal scenario. And by that point too if you aren’t trained enough to know how to control someone’s limbs in wrestling for the gun, you’re increasingly possibly fucked.
It is very very good to train martial arts, and very very good to train the ability to run away fast, and always hope you can opt for the latter in most cases.
your advice about using guns to de-escalate is literally illegal and dangerous advice, at least in america. see my other comments in this thread.
you should consider reading this article (warning: NSFW, CW: SV, SA), it has a slightly different focus than this conversation but has tangentially relevant insights imo. no one is saying not to train martial arts
Not OP but you can be shot or stabbed by someone even if you know what you’re doing. The best option if you want to protect yourself is to run away, be aware of your surroundings, and have a gun.
Learning martial arts is most effective in unarmed fights when you’re not outnumbered or sucker punched. So very little if at all. It’s obviously better to have it than not but 15 minutes at a gun range is probably better than 15 years in martial arts.
I learned Ken po, I don’t know the legality of gouging someone’s eyes out but seems pretty effective… that was how almost every technique I learned seems to end. They had these mannequins with the eyes removed and they’d put soft boiled eggs in them. We never practiced on anybody & the guy who started it had an eye patch over one eye.
lmao, that last sentence is powerful.
Seriously. I want to know that man’s story.
boxing? lots of cardio so you can run away, looks like a “fair fight” if you can’t. It’s good to have a ground game from BJJ, but if you take someone to ground their friends are probably gonna jump you, and if they were alone you probably could have run away.
I’ve never been in a situation where I needed to fight my way out. If I were to encounter one I’d probably be carrying a gun anyway. IMO, you could also train for fun, fitness, street fighting, etc; be realistic about your self-defense needs.
I know how to use a firearm but I don’t carry a gun, I feel like I’d get insta-executed (I’m black)
Mace (technically a brand, the generic term is “OC-spray”) is very good as a non-lethal self-defense option. Don’t let weird myths about “immunity” fool you either, 99% of people are very much not immune to that shit.
Yeah the cardio and the footwork for keeping distance and cutting angles is no joke. A lot of videos where boxers take out multiple assailants. Running is always best and shit boxers do a lot of that too
Getting good at fighting with any weapon, even just a heavy blunt object, will be easier to learn and more effective than unarmed self defense. Knowing how to use a firearm is even more practical if you’re in a situation where they’re an option.
Avoiding fights is always the best form of self defense though and being prepared for them if they happen is the second best.
Copypastaing from above but
I know how to use a firearm but I don’t carry a gun, I feel like I’d get insta-executed (I’m black)
Gun Kata
serious
Boxing is a good choice, really most altercations will be resolved with one good crack to the jaw. I hear BJJ is a solid #2 pick, but don’t know much about it firsthand, and there’s alot to learn from wrestling as well.
whatever you think the coolest one is because you’ll be motivated to learn it more
for me? probably capoeira or northern shaolin they both look sick as fuck and really that’s huge when you’re for some reason in a fight and public and didn’t bring any self defense. if you’re gonna go down, you gotta go down looking fuckin awesome. honestly if you have prep time bring some wire and pullies and you can do some of those wuxia kicks and shit and just turn it into a whole public theater. like if i for some reason get into a fight and my opponent starts floating over at me with a flying wire kick im just going to run: for you it’s life and death, for them it’s just another stunt
Wing Chun for the rapid-fire sucker punches and the fencer crab walk.
When in doubt strike the groin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyXhysmMNhE
Monkey steals the peach!
when you’re in trouble, give 'em urine trouble
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