- cross-posted to:
- technologie@jlai.lu
- cross-posted to:
- technologie@jlai.lu
Element is launching the world’s first communications platform based on the upcoming Matrix 2.0 release. The result is blazing performance which outperforms the mainstream alternatives - across a decentralised system that enables self-hosting and end-to-end encryption - as well as open standard interoperability to revolutionise real time communication between large organisations.
Built on Matrix 2.0, Element X now rivals the performance of centralised consumer messaging apps, empowering organisations to address the shadow IT issues caused by consumer-grade messaging apps in the workplace.
The new Element communications solution consists:
- Element X, our next-gen app with an array of new features
- Element Call fully integrated into Element X, for native Matrix-encrypted voice and video
- Element Server Suite, our backend hosting solution for powerful admin control and Matrix 2.0 performance
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“invisible cryptography” I sure hope this isn’t an empty promise. The number one gripe I have with matrix/element is the absolutely horrendous crypto dance they make you do.
It’s probably the number one reason I can’t convince friends to move over, I know they would bawk at how it makes them do that on every device
I studied cryptography and I can’t figure out how to do the dance right. I thought I did, but one of my contacts says they can’t read any message I send them. And I can’t message them to figure out why.
We haven’t spoken since. Thanks Matrix.
What are you talking about? Even before this new “invisible cryptography” you set it up once per device and never have to think about it again.
I had just uninstalled Element X like two weeks ago because I found it to under perform compared to the normal Element client on Android, in addition to lacking some features. I guess I’ll give it another shot.
Update: WOW this thing feels lightning fast compared to just a few weeks ago. This is great. Not sure about feature completeness, but based on speed I think I’ll migrate Element > Element X again. Great job to the team!
It hans’t changed speedwise for me. It has been lightning fast since it’s first release
that’s interesting. I had found it fast initially when it was first released. I didn’t use it often but when I finally stared using Matrix more often I was bouncing between both and Element X was significantly slower than normal Element so I decided to uninstall just a few weeks ago. I had even tried un/reinstalling to see if it would fix it, but it didn’t. Much happier with it now.
The last time I used element x was probably a couple months ago and I wouldn’t really call it ‘production ready’. But I guess I’ll have to try it again.
I still don’t think it’s there, but development hss been fast, so a lot has changed and improved in the last couple of months.
Element x still doesn’t have support for spaces. Trying to navigate between rooms just by scrolling through one huge list is a nightmare.
Still no Spaces support. Even the short list of rooms I’ve joined are unmanageable when listed flat with no way to identify which Space a
#generalbelongs toThis is dependent on matrix-rust-sdk, when (if) it ends up supporting it, all apps using the SDK will be able to add support for spaces
Spaces is an underused feature that I hope see gain more traction! It makes Matrix a credible competitor to Slack and Discord
What do you mean by “spaces”?
It’s the equivalent of discord servers
I can’t use discord because they require phone numbers from users who use privacy tools.
What does this mean for people who don’t use discord?
A space is a collection of rooms. So you have a clean list of spaces, then when you click into one of them it shows all the rooms that it contains. Without spaces, every single room is shown in one big list.
Spaces have nothing to do with Discord. They’re just a way of grouping multiple Matrix rooms together into one “space” like how Discord channels are grouped into one “server.”
A way to group organize discover and control access to multiple Rooms.
Here’s an extra ironic Elements post describing them: https://element.io/blog/spaces-the-next-frontier/
I don’t like what I see in the iOS app stores privacy section for the app.
Element is able to use features called “Integration Manager” and “Identity Server”. When using an Identity Server, you can choose to link name, email, and phone number to your Matrix account. When using an Integration Manager, there’s a feature to share your location with others in chat.
As such, Vector discloses that they “collect this information”, although (except some diagnostics), this is completely optional.
(I am not associated with Vector, just interested in Matrix)
Ah interesting ok. So basically even though it CAN link all of that info to you and such doesn’t mean that it WILL if you opt out of things. Is that correct?
Even better.
It’s opt-in instead of opt -out
Correct, Vector does not receive this information unless you willingly share it with them.
Ok thank you
Strange. I could only find vector settings in the regular Element app. And even stranger, it prompts me with “Accept Identity Server Terms” but if I tap on the identity server option it says “You are currently using vector…”. I also cannot disconnect unless I accept the terms. I really wish all of this was more clear.
The way permissions are listed on mobile operating these days is honestly pretty misleading.
For example, I know some apps that need to request network permission even though they don’t need to connect to the internet. Not because they want to do anything shady, but because they legitably have to in order to get certain info.
Not to mention the problem of listing everything an app can do as if it is doing all of those things.
Correct any personal info is opt-in, ie; you can put your phone number and email in if you want to make it easier for friends to find you.
Seriously, WTF?!
What do you find WTF about it?
That’s a lot of data collection.
That’s the problem with how the app store presents privacy info: without context it’s nearly meaningless. “may be collected”. It’s optional, but that’s not show here. The Play store does show that these are all optional.
“Collected” is also a scary word here. Having my location “collected” sounds scary, but what it actually may mean is that I can optionally and explicitly share my location with a contact.
Notice it says “MAY be collected”, because if you want to you can share your phone number, email, etc with the app to allow people to find you easier.
Same with location and stuff like that, if you use an option to share your location or connect to bluetooth devices it will obviously need your location permission.
Oftentimes “location” can just mean “needs to access Bluetooth”
do you know what the average mobile app looks like? lmao
Screensharing would let so many people move from discord
Discord uses their own screen sharing implementation because it performs better than what’s available in Electron by default. I don’t expect Element to achieve that, considering their focus isn’t gaming.
Last time I checked they had it in the web version
Only through Jitsi as I remember, it wasn’t very good if that’s what they’re still using.
Wire supports it. Also more secure than Matrix
How is it more secure than matrix? I can’t even self-host it.
Yes, you can. The server code is on github. But I don’t know why you would, since all messages are encrypted client-side.
Its more secure because you know that all your users can’t send a message unencrypted, either accidentally or intentionally.
there’s a graphical indicator if they send something unencrypted, and there’s no way to turn an encrypted chat into an unencrypted chat on matrix. Plus they start encrypted by default, I honestly don’t even know how to make an unencrypted chat, I don’t think there’s any good way to other than using a client that doesn’t have encryption.
this is not a real problem.
It is a problem. Many orgs have strict rules not to use messaging solutions that support unencrypted messages
This doesn’t tick the box, so it blocks adoption
Not available on f droid yet it seems
~~https://f-droid.org/packages/io.element.android.x/~~
f-droid seems a few versions behind.
https://apkpure.com/element-x-secure-messenger/io.element.android.x/download
That release is quite out of date. See this issue
Schildi chat has SchildiNext on f-droid
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
The new release isn’t out on F-Droid my friend, last updated 3 months ago as of this comment.
Indeed, probably in the coming days
What’s matrix 2.0? Are they finally gonna use the go backend as opposed to the python one?
Not exactly. Matrix 2.0 relates to the protocol (Matrix) version, which has its major number incremented due to a bunch of, well, major changes/updates to make it much better. OIDC, sliding sync and native calls are some of the new things that comprise the 2.0 update.
The server implementations are somewhat orthogonal to this. Synapse (the original Python server) is still the main implementation, and is Matrix 2.0 ready.
Yeah its not clear to me what matrix 2.0 is either, seems like spec changes? Nothing here about synapse (the python matrix server), or the go one.
Yeah its not clear to me what matrix 2.0 is either, seems like spec changes?
Yes, Matrix is the protocol. Element is one of many clients supporting said protocol, and synapse is one of many servers supporting said protocol.
I’m still sad they stopped work on dendrite. P2P level decentralization, with E2EE, would be amazing.
These are still great improvements though. I’m hyped that loading seems to be so much faster.
They didn’t though? Source?
They paused funding for all of the exciting P2P and low bandwidth stuff last year. Hopefully it resumes soon, as mentioned in the GitHub thread.
https://matrix.org/blog/2023/12/25/the-matrix-holiday-update-2023/#In-other-news
Meanwhile, P2P Matrix and Low Bandwidth Matrix is on hiatus until there’s dedicated funding - and Account Portability work is also temporarily paused in favour of commercial Element work, despite the fantastic progress made recently with Pseudo IDs (MSC4014) and Cryptographic identifiers (MSC4080). Given P2P Matrix and Account Portability were the main projects driving Dendrite development recently, this may also cause a slow-down in Dendrite development, although Dendrite itself will still be maintained.
Space support and multi account support and I’ll install it. Fluffychat has many features but still laggy.
Has anyone tried the new app?
I’ve been using the nightly releases for element X android for some time.
Sliding sync means messages are fetched quite a bit quicker, though it’s not yet feature complete relative to regular element android.
I’ve not yet tested element call on EXA, however, but it’s worked very nicely for me via web.
I’m trying it now, seems okay so far. I tried it a few months ago and it was unusable, so it’s improved.
Thanks!
deleted by creator
Native OIDC support…something I wish more self hosted apps would prioritize. I shouldn’t need to maintain a bunch of user account systems on my own servers.
What’s the difference between the normal app and element X? Why create a new app?
EDIT: I installed it, but can’t verify for some reason.
EDIT: It works now, and it’s very fast compared to the other client. It’s a shame spaces aren’t supported.
Good ol’ Rust Rewrite fixing everything.
Normy here, I think it’s a whole different framework which is faster and more reliable I think. Also the normal app technology outdated so maybe it’s difficult to add new features to it.
Bombastic
We should probably stop arguing about Matrix vs XMPP and finally decide what to use or else we’ll never move forward.
Which is largely whether or not the eventual consistency model or not is the route to take. Is the resilience for chat worth the explosion of storage & preformance cost of sync/search & maintaining all that data amongst all servers? Or is limited/functional sync without always duplicating the entire history with the occasional out-of-order message & missing old attachments good enough? Is ephemeral chat okay to save resources which in turn makes it more feasible to self-host on lower-end hardware or is it better to trust a couple big servers with massive storage who probably have admins?
Still waiting for an XMPP client to support threads
Got it. I’ll use matrix, and you can use XMPP
and judging by user numbers the answer is matrix lmao
