I’m on a mailing list for Claudia and got this today. Kind of funny since last week the Democrats tried kicking de la Cruz off of the Georgia ballot.
I’m on a mailing list for Claudia and got this today. Kind of funny since last week the Democrats tried kicking de la Cruz off of the Georgia ballot.
If you’re not going to “vote for any of these”, what is your plan?
How are you proposing to run society, get food, healthcare, education, have roads, clean water, internet connectivity, power, law, and all the other things that make it possible for you to express yourself here today?
Do you think only capitalists are capable of doing those things?
Different people here will have different methods, this is a Left-Unity instance, though most are Marxists or Anarchists.
How familiar are you with Leftist Theory?
Lol they ain’t.
I try to help them
You can’t help a lib that doesn’t want to be helped.
You can lead a lib to theory but you can’t make them read.
Perfect.
I live in a country where, unlike the US two party system, political parties span the entire range. So much so that it appears that at the extremes there is little to differentiate between them.
I’m familiar with their “solutions” to complex issues.
I think H.L. Mencken captures it best:
“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong.”
In other words, being a society is complicated, it’s messy and ultimately a reflection on human nature.
So, pick your path as best as you can. This is what I try to carry with me:
Source: https://www.desiderata.com/desiderata.html
There exists no such country where Communists, Liberals, Anarchists, and fascists all compete in some grand electoral game.
These are?
Don’t see the point of this comment, you’re implying we have simple worldviews and yet you think Human Nature matters at all, as though it isn’t shaped by Material Conditions and changes with Mode of Production throughout history. You just say “it’s complicated,” shrug, and offer nothing, no suggestion nor critique of Leftism.
I ask again, how familiar are you with Leftist Theory?
Australia does, as far as I’m aware, have political representation for all of those alternatives and provided me the opportunity to vote for any of them, although we tend to dislike the fasists since they have a tendency to want to end society.
Mind elaborating on what party represents the Communists that you can actually vote for?
https://cpa.org.au/homepage/
Okay, cool. So how can this party genuinely achieve Communism, within a state designed to prevent it? Even if they got voted in, how would they do it?
CPA doesn’t really do electoral entryism (and is probably the most hexbear approved Australian communist party). Socialist Alliance (ex-trots) do earnestly run for government sometimes, but are part of a gaggle of minor parties whose preferential votes disappear often, though they’ve gotten to city council.
This is just based on my local experience of being around them and volunteering, I haven’t gotten into a discussion about their paths to power. There’s a tacit acknowledgement that a dozen part time nerds is probably not changing much so while they occasionally scoff at each other, there’s also a lot of cross-pollination and protests etc organised between them (and a few others).
Electorally, both of their voters generally wind up preferencing the greens, which are a big tent left party with the occasional embarrassing Malthusian, or Labor which is a blairite shit pit with the occasional left radical member.
Recently, the Australian electoral rules changed which increased the requirements for a party to be on the ballot, but I actually don’t see that changing much in terms of actual electoral results.
I think realistically Australia is going to be one of the last countries with a population over 10 million to go red, despite the efforts of my comrades. Wealthy, high minimum wages, white settler nationalism very strong, most rabid antiCPC reflex etc.
I did meet a Cuban delegation through the CPA and Socialist Alliance, which was nice.
Yeah, so the Australian communists hypothetically get elected and then exercise state power to liquidate the capitalist class? Is that how you really think the world works?
omg i can understand the basics of general relativity without shitting myself to death. time to throw it into the trash!
also if you think marxism or communism is simple and clear than you have absolutely zero clue about any of it
I looked up the guy that quote was from, and umm…
This user really started quoting a fascist in a dunk sesh with a bunch of commies lol.
This has to be the funniest case of a liberal smuglord stumbling in here thinking they are the smartest person in the room about to educate us simple minded commies and getting absolutely shredded in recent memory, very old school r/cth vibes. I love you all
I always wanted to start a dunk session. I just never imagined I would do it with a post in the_dunk_tank lol. The post was mostly meant to poke fun at the sign co-opting too. Didn’t expect an Australian trying to lib-plain US politics to those of us who are actively getting crushed by the US machine…
I think this is probably my best post on hexbear now, but also the amount of info that other hexbears just bring with fire in dunk sessions has always impressed me.
i love this appears to be the harshest criticism he can come up with of peace. “ummm actually being peaceful makes you like an OLD WORKING CLASS WOMAN. owned yet?!??”
The expression “old maid” is a synonym for “spinster”, and suggests an elderly unmarried woman rather than an occupation. So it’s more a misogynistic insult than a classist one.
I’m gonna be honest, the image didn’t load for a minute and I was expecting a well-deserved :poindexter: or something 😄
so… arguably still exactly the quote I made up
No you don’t
So you’re familiar with Marx? What a coincidence, so am I
Ok, let’s confirm your “familiarity” with the most basic question imaginable…
According to Marx how many sources of profit are there?
Define human nature, use as many words as you need
Hey! Their country is completely different! Unlike the US, which just has a far right and right wing party, they have both of those and a centre party, and a vaguely centrist party that claims to be left that never gets elected! It’s completely different!
Entire range of neoliberalism maybe.
Which country? [EDIT: question answered in thread]
The party in question (PSL) actually has taken a stab at what their vision of the first ten years of a socialist United States would look like:
https://1804books.com/products/socialist-reconstruction-a-better-future
What does any of that have to do with the specific neoliberal system we live under? Do you think if we didn’t have a gerrymandered, bourgeois, “democratic” republic exactly like this one society would immediately collapse?
Your comment seems to imply you think the range of stability stretches from Kamala to Trump.
I don’t live in a country where those are voting options, so no.
I was attempting to ask the OP what they were planning if they didn’t like either of those choices, but it seems that question has gone unanswered.
Multiple users have directly answered your question, don’t play dumb.
I don’t think they’re playing, it probably just comes naturally to them.
I don’t know what you want @Nakoichi@hexbear.net to specifically say, but they’re a left wing anarchist, so thats the alternative being proposed. There are centuries of books on what leftists want, it’s not a mystery or something we avoid talking about.
We’re not liberals who are advocating for making tweaks or legislation. We don’t want to operate the current situation. We want to overthrow the current social arrangement and elevate the working class to the status of dominant political and economic authority. The particulars of how the working class will exert this dominance has to get figured out on the way because of things like geography, culture, historical conflict, etc.
So we don’t have the answer on how exactly a socialist America would look, because we don’t even have a united front yet to realistically take power. Why worry about what color the drapes are gonna be if we don’t even have a foundation yet?
This is a beautiful answer in terms of left unity.
start organizing to prepare for the overthrow of society
Check this out, I think it’ll explain pretty well
Look at China 🇨🇳
Well first you should stop voting for people who are responsible for degrading the government’s ability to sustain all of those things that make it possible for you to express yourself here today, that includes Republicans and Democrats
Before advancing any prescription, the principle of DO NO HARM must first be applied, that holds true in medicine as well as politics
Also helps to have a basic education in concepts that seem to be out of your depth like; Socialism, leftism…or general anti-fascism
You can start by reading the Communist manifesto https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/index.htm