Bae, considering you are the solid food, might want to ask fewer questions.
Yes but actually no.
Thanks to industrial grade food production meat cows and dairy cows are two entirely separate breeds by now. Old school cows you were able to butcher once they died of old age or whatever and get a decent cut of meta out of that. Modern cows are bred to either produce more milk or to produce more meat. Which on one end results in cows too thin to be butcherable and on the other end results in cows with too little nutrients in their body to produce any excess milk.
I say we go back to the old ways of mixed use cows and live with the reduced milk and meat output. What most people drink might as well be colored water given all the fat gets filtered out of the milk so switching to an alternative shouldn’t be a problem (aside from getting used to not drinking cow milk and instead whatever milk is to their liking)
What do you imagine happens to old dairy cattle? We just compost them?
Dairy cattle absolutely get slaughtered for food. If you eat them, though, they were probably in your burger or hotdog.
That’s because older animals are less tender than young animals, and consumers prefer tender meat.
The only issue you’re missing is this. If 5 dairy plus 5 meat cows yield 20% more total food now than 10 cows yielded then, focusing on the perceived waste of not eating a milk cow is fallacy. Is there a substantive argument that we are using cows less efficiently than we did a century ago?
What most people drink might as well be colored water given all the fat gets filtered out of the milk
Per the Mayo Clinic, it’s tough to beat dairy milk for balanced nutrition. That is even (or especially) with the excess fat removed and reserved for other products. Switching to an alternative is generally a nutrition problem. Only fortified and unsweetened soymilk comes close.
And one could argue it is the least palatable alternative. Calls to mind “instead of a doughnut, eat an apple”-style dietary replacement advice. Except in this case, there’s no huge nutritional gain like those stupid “instead ofs” have.
“Know what Bessie? You’re right.”
BLAM
“Honey fire up the grill! Steaks tonight!”
She deserves nothing less for spelling it as “weening”.
Lol, killing her after abusing her. So edgy and original! Never heard that joke before.
milking cows isn’t abuse
Unless you consider the fact that the only reason they need milking is that they were forced into pregnancy in the first place.
that’s still not abuse
Yeah, it is. Actual industry practice - impregnate cow mechanically without consent, bring baby cow to term, kill majority of baby cows for veal after separation after a few days from birth, repeat after cows stops producing milk, until cow is used up (around 10 years IIRC, a fraction of their normal lifespan) and also killed for meat.
The normal lifespan of a dairy cow is 5 years. two and a half to 3 years for beef cattle.
The natural lifespan of a cow is ~25 years.
That’s only because of farming. A dairy cow’s natural life expectancy is 20 years.
Talking about cows giving consent for sex is peak insanity. Do you think bulls take a cow out for a few dates beforehand?
No, I don’t. Do you think the behavior of animals justifies human behavior?
it makes no sense to discuss consent from cows. do you get consent from a lamp when you turn it on?
almost no cows end up as veal.
Ya know, all you’re doing here is advertising the fact that you have no empathy whatsoever.
Literally nothing else.
This is an example of behavior that pushes anyone who isn’t a militant vegan away. I even know vegans who have second thoughts about their decisions over attitudes like those represented in the comment above me.
I’m not vegan I just don’t lie to myself
i have empathy. cows giving birth and producing milk isn’t abuse.
Makes sense you are a pro lifer
Yes it is (4 minutes animated short with no actual graphic images)
i know what artificial insemination is:
it’s a veterinary procedure.
your cartoon isn’t an accurate representation of what happens on farms,
and
comparing women to cows is gross.
It’s incredible how this always goes the same way. Somebody points out the extreme double standard we apply between behavior that would be reprehensible to our species, and that same behavior performed to a different species (that most of us struggle with understanding or having any level of communication with), and without fail, somebody comes along and goes, “you’re being misogynistic/racist by demonstrating the similarity between exploitation of animals and the same ways we exploited humans in the past, using the exact same excuses and mentality as we do for animals now!”
Let’s try applying the standards of medicine here to insemination of cows. Is it consensual? No. Is it medically necessary? No. Is it necessary to produce a particular consumer good (one that we have other widely available options for)? Yes. Are those your standards for medical ethics? I hope not, because they’re probably beneath the standards of the typical human trafficker.
comparing women to cows is gross. you shouldn’t do that.
the extreme double standard we apply between behavior that would be reprehensible to our species, and that same behavior performed to a different species (that most of us struggle with understanding or having any level of communication with)
like burying zygotes in the ground and those who survive to maturity, you cut off their reproductive organs and then grind them to dust to be fed to people?
i guess grain harvesting is totally evil.
the extreme double standard we apply between behavior that would be reprehensible to our species, and that same behavior performed to a different species (that most of us struggle with understanding or having any level of communication with)
like feeding them the most basic easy-to-digest nutrients and allowing them to live in their own waste until the waste becomes so great that literally every organism living there dies? like we do with beer and wine? yea. we are totally hypocritical monsters…
it makes no sense to discuss consent from cows. do you get consent from your chair when you sit in it?
Are you actually equating living and feeling species with objects?
it’s not a double standard. it’s justified discrimination. speciesism is necessary for right conduct.
JFC, it’s one comment, don’t reply to it with five other comments. Keep that up and you’re getting blocked. 10 replies from you in my inbox just now.
If you’d impregnate a woman without her consent, take away her baby and then her milk to drink and make delicous cheese of you’d go to jail. If you do that to a different mammal you don’t, yet. Because specisim. We do whatever the fuck we want with them. They’re just cows.
talking about consent from cows is absurd: do you get consent from a door before you put your whole self through it?
Don’t confuse you not being able to obtain consent from them, with them having an inability to not want something. Doors are not sentient, cows are. This speaks to you having no clue what’s going on in their heads.
sentence and consent are unrelated. One has nothing to do with the other.
An animal can indicate things to a human, i.e., “I want food”, “please scratch me”, or “where is my baby that you just took away”. They can’t sign their name on a legally binding contract but that doesn’t mean they’re incapable of wanting or not wanting something. There is a connection between the two things, namely that their sentient experience involves wants and non-wants, likes and dislikes, joy and trauma.
comparing women to cows is misogynist. don’t do that.
I’ve read this reply in so many forms over the years, and it absolutely misses the point, every time, without fail.
It’s not misogynistic, the point isn’t to downgrade human women, it’s to point out the horrendous inhuman actions we do to animals and how they absolutely fail the basic moral reasoning we apply to ourselves.
even if not intended you do downgrade human women. Even in the best case scenario a cow is still incapable of holding a conversation on a human level. There are very few animals that can hold a candle to our intellect and by claiming you should treat human women the same as an animal incapable of higher conversation you ARE insulting them and downgrading them.
Except I didn’t even say that.
I think it’s reasonable to expect that we treat women better than cows.
wow the absolute irony of this statement being downvoted. Turn it around and it would be, rightfully, absolutely shat on for being misogynistic to the max.
These Militant Vegans think they elevate animals to equal of humans, but instead they just reduce humans to the level of animals (or below) in their treatment.
Yeah just use the word militant even if the word after it isn’t even accurate and you’ll be extra correct 💯
Oh I agree, but the topic here is militant vegans :)
As the saying goes, I don’t eat, exploit or sexually abuse humans either. We just rule it out across the board, while you guys don’t.
You sure do rationalize the shit out of how we’re worse than you because we have stricter/consistent moral standards though! Always some twisted bit of logic to explain that one. You wouldn’t really understand unless you’ve lived through it, but it’s a little nasty little bit of discrimination in its own right - we actually sacrifice something to try to do the right thing, and get treated like subhumans for it. Having an actual rational discussion is right out the window because god forbid you engage honestly with a “militant vegan” who’s lived through, rejected and moved past the thinking you’re still stuck on.
But you do exploit humans. The food you eat, the clothes you wear, actually pretty much everything you use was made with exploitation. The fact you can choose to go vegan and complain about it on the internet means you are incredibly privledged. As am I.
You talk about rational discussion but all I’m seeing from you is the opposite, “all meat eaters are evil”.
The world is complicated and there’s a lot of things wrong with it. You chose one problem to focus on, and that’s great. But just because other people have other things that they prioritize doesn’t mean they are bad people.
no one is sexually abusing animals, either, and you most certainly do exploit other people.
Having an actual rational discussion is right out the window because god forbid you engage honestly with
someone who understands your arguments and doesnt fall for them.
As the saying goes, I don’t eat, exploit or sexually abuse humans either
First off, feel free to open with any scientific evidence that cows suffer the emotional trauma of sexual abuse from farming. Because the thing is, we have thousands of years of evidence and that doesn’t seem to be the correct conclusion. No, calling cattle insemination sexual abuse is a malicious lie.
You sure do rationalize the shit out of how we’re worse than you because we have stricter/consistent moral standards though!
This. Right. fucking. here. You are telling me that my moral system is less than dirt. That I am inferior to you. You don’t talk about it with any genuine respect. If I won’t “sexually abuse” my ethics, I’m dirt underneath your feet. You didn’t argue the points here, because I’m beneath you. Less than you. Let me guess, some of that human-hating-vegan propaganda where I either haven’t thought about it, or I’ve taken a removedation shotgun to my head because I “loooooooove” the taste of meat? Because I can’t just think YOU’RE wrong. No, I can’t do that. Because I’m too stupid to. Right?
You wouldn’t really understand unless you’ve lived through it, but it’s a little nasty little bit of discrimination in its own right
I’m a member of a fringe religion that my country tried to ban, so fuck “little nasty bit of discrimination”. YOU DON’T GET TO CALL YOURSELF A VICTIM OF DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE I DON’T LIKE YOU BELITTLING ME. That’s not how discrimination works. You sound like the Religious Right who think they are victims every time they don’t get to ban Mosques or gay marriage.
and get treated like subhumans for it
I don’t think you’re a subhuman. I think you’re a zealot. HUGE fucking difference. It’s not discrimination when you judge someone’s actions. I don’t call your horrible behavior “discriminatory” because you’re disagreeing with what I do and not who I am. The judgement is mutual. You don’t get to call it discriminatory because I won’t bend over for you and your bullshit pseudoscience.
Having an actual rational discussion is right out the window
You mean by calling the dairy and cattle industry “sexual abuse”? You start being the least bit rational, and then you can MAYBE try to judge the kettle. Let me point out that I was agreeing with somebody about treating cows and women the same being misogynistic, and you just fucking went off on me. Because agreeing that bullshit is bullshit is somehow “irrational” and attacking non-vegans for not accepting that bullshit is “irrational”. No. YOU are irrational.
because god forbid you engage honestly with a “militant vegan” who’s lived through, rejected and moved past the thinking you’re still stuck on.
Actually I was engaging with a decent human being I agreed with, and a militant vegan decided to approach me with a persecution complex. So in this thread, why should I care what you’ve lived through? Do you approve of being approach on the street by strangers and judged?
And I’ve “lived through, rejected, and moved past” your thinking, too. I used to be an active member of a religion that has strong roots in both philosophical veganism and in philosophical omnivorism. Circle of live vs All life is sacred sects. You might not realize it, but a lot of people with a lot more understanding of ethics and a lot more philosophical background than you have spent a lot more time thinking about veganism than you have. And I lived through it, rejected it, and came out the other side.
Don’t bother replying. I don’t wait for a reply on the subway either.
speciesism is necessary for right action.
Haha yes I love to kill and eat someone whose breast I’ve suckled at
Damn, I’m really sorry to hear about your mom.
That’s weird, I get my milk from the grocery store. Do you recommend I drink directly from the source like you do?
/uj I think you should drink oat milk like I do. You shouldn’t involve cows in your breast milk fetish. And you’d best believe the only difference between oat milk and breast milk is sexual.
Only
The chemical makeup of the two liquids is different for a start, so you’re wrong in saying that.
/uj
Another former VCJ user? How’d you find Lemmy with your B12 deficiency??
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Oat milk is objectively worse in taste. I actually hate it
It’s also a lot less healthy, according to the Mayo Clinic
Cheese is a solid food.
No. Mrs cow, *leans in and whispers sensually “I need your milk to make me feel good” as I make eye contact and continue milking.
Homelander moment
*weaning
Weening is the process by which one listens to the band Ween and grows to like even the weirdest albums.
Thank you.
“For the last time, Bessie, I’m a god damn cheese maker! It will be solid food!”
Two words: Butter and cheese.
Everyone talking about moving out of meat, the fuck are we gonna do to get out of those too?
I’m trying to find a way out of cheese. No luck yet, and I can’t really afford the analogs either way.
Gave up meat though, so I’m happy so far. Let’s see what clever scientists come up with for the rest 😎
Gave up cheese/milk/eggs ages ago. There isn’t a one for one replacement, but pizza is junk food anyway, my diet shifted to replacements that were better for me in the end (and imho tastier). But yeah, the cashew-based stuff is about as fancy as it gets - you can do lasagna etc. with it, pizza just doesn’t work perfectly.
This recipe is what made it possible for our family as a cheese substitute:
That’s the neat part, we don’t.
I know people who gave up veganism purely because of the cheese. It’s fucking delicious.
Yeah, no meat? Maybe. But no yoghurt? Just fucking kill me.
Y’know, you’re right… Starts making cheese
That cow speaks the truth. I don’t really think this is much of a shitpost, its a valid reasoning.
The reasoning falls for the “appeal to nature” fallacy. Only because in nature no other animal drinks the baby-food of another species, doesn’t follow we shouldn’t do it. Same would be: “no other animal pumps the dead bodies of other species from the earth to burn them in mini engines to avoid the inconvenience of walking a few miles” I mean there are other good reasons, but nature is not one of them.
no other animal drinks the baby-food of another species,
that’s not even true
No other animal moralises over what they eat.
I ain’t gonna eat my cereals with water
You can eat them with oat milk, soy milk, flax milk, rice milk, almond milk, coconut milk, pea milk, and many more.
My personal recommendation is only one at a time though
Lmao yeah. Now that makes me want to make a giant milk mixture though to see what would happen. You have given me ideas
“Who the fuck opened all the milks???”
I had a friend who had orange juice with cereal instead of milk. I figured that was super-weird, and so I never tried it. But… trying stuff and liking unusual things is fine.
Just use oat milk??
They said I ain’t gonna eat my cereals with water
There’s… water in milk.
Why?
Its super nutritious. Dont let it go to waste
Good point, it is wasteful. Maybe instead of letting it rot in the food supply chain and on supermarket shelves we should let baby calves drink it, or stop forcefully impregnating dairy cows in the first place.
Wait what. We subsidize it to keep the price low and then dairy farmers pour it down the drain to keep the price from going too low.
frozen milk it is
Ice cream!
Me, drinking Soylent:
Where’s my cattle prod god damnit
Nope
