Yeah, it is. Actual industry practice - impregnate cow mechanically without consent, bring baby cow to term, kill majority of baby cows for veal after separation after a few days from birth, repeat after cows stops producing milk, until cow is used up (around 10 years IIRC, a fraction of their normal lifespan) and also killed for meat.
Do you have qualifications that exceed (or equal) those of the individuals who wrote the article I linked, or do you some other documentation that can support your claims?
Is the life expectancy of—for example—dogs or cats invalid simply because of human intervention?
If a cow escapes the pasture, I wouldn’t be surprised to find it dead in 20 minutes. They require the aid of fences and the protection of farm dogs in the vast majority of environments they live in. Whoever is getting cattle to live 20 years is not doing so naturally, far from it
This is an example of behavior that pushes anyone who isn’t a militant vegan away. I even know vegans who have second thoughts about their decisions over attitudes like those represented in the comment above me.
In all fairness that heavily depends on the type of farming. I highly doubt mass farmed chickens have it better than their wild counterparts given they have about 2cm² of space available before they have to trample on another chicken.
Free range farming however I absolutely agree is better for the animals than living in the wild. Imo given the various benefits (mostly the extremely reduced need for antibiotics, seriously we have to stop feeding them to animals: it’s biting us in the ass already) it offers over industrial scale farming we should move back to it.
In all fairness that heavily depends on the type of farming. I highly doubt mass farmed chickens have it better than their wild counterparts given they have about 2cm² of space available before they have to trample on another chicken.
I’ve seen a chicken who escaped a fox. It lived for DAYS. I’d take a battery cage over that. But I do take your point to heart.
Free range farming however I absolutely agree is better for the animals than living in the wild. Imo given the various benefits (mostly the extremely reduced need for antibiotics, seriously we have to stop feeding them to animals: it’s biting us in the ass already) it offers over industrial scale farming we should move back to it.
100%. My home state has free range laws and I fully support them. Our eggs went up about $1/dozen, not exactly a big deal. I would 100% support humane treatment regulations that nominally increase the price of meat products.
And I agree about feeding animals antibiotics. I understood why they did it in the first place, but now that we know it’s harmful it needs to stop.
I mean disagree all you want but biologically speaking plants are life. And also biologically speaking a lot of plants have some form of “pain” reflex where they can react to damage. However that argument being a stretch is also true. It does work in some circumstances, mostly when you have a militant vegan insisting all life should be protected and no life should be ended for food (has happened to me once so by no means is this a likely event but it shows that the argument does work on very rare occasions)
On a slightly related note: from a genetic perspective fungi (as in mushrooms) are a lot closer to animals than they are to “other” plants. Not trying to use it as an argument or anything just a fun tidbit of trivia while we are on the topic.
that’s still not abuse
Yeah, it is. Actual industry practice - impregnate cow mechanically without consent, bring baby cow to term, kill majority of baby cows for veal after separation after a few days from birth, repeat after cows stops producing milk, until cow is used up (around 10 years IIRC, a fraction of their normal lifespan) and also killed for meat.
The normal lifespan of a dairy cow is 5 years. two and a half to 3 years for beef cattle.
The natural lifespan of a cow is ~25 years.
no it’s not.
That’s only because of farming. A dairy cow’s natural life expectancy is 20 years.
there has literally never been a holstein that lived 20 years without human intervention.
no, it’s not.
Do you have qualifications that exceed (or equal) those of the individuals who wrote the article I linked, or do you some other documentation that can support your claims?
Is the life expectancy of—for example—dogs or cats invalid simply because of human intervention?
this is an incredible ham-fisted appeal to authority. what i said is true or false regardless of how well qualified your (irrelevant) authors are.
the linked article doesn’t support the claim being made.
If a cow escapes the pasture, I wouldn’t be surprised to find it dead in 20 minutes. They require the aid of fences and the protection of farm dogs in the vast majority of environments they live in. Whoever is getting cattle to live 20 years is not doing so naturally, far from it
Talking about cows giving consent for sex is peak insanity. Do you think bulls take a cow out for a few dates beforehand?
No, I don’t. Do you think the behavior of animals justifies human behavior?
no one suggested that.
it makes no sense to discuss consent from cows. do you get consent from a lamp when you turn it on?
almost no cows end up as veal.
Ya know, all you’re doing here is advertising the fact that you have no empathy whatsoever.
Literally nothing else.
This is an example of behavior that pushes anyone who isn’t a militant vegan away. I even know vegans who have second thoughts about their decisions over attitudes like those represented in the comment above me.
I’m not vegan I just don’t lie to myself
Neither do I. If I had my say, everyone would spend some time on a farm and kill their own food at least once.
There is empathy, and there is misappropriation. Farmed animals have it better than wild animals.
In all fairness that heavily depends on the type of farming. I highly doubt mass farmed chickens have it better than their wild counterparts given they have about 2cm² of space available before they have to trample on another chicken.
Free range farming however I absolutely agree is better for the animals than living in the wild. Imo given the various benefits (mostly the extremely reduced need for antibiotics, seriously we have to stop feeding them to animals: it’s biting us in the ass already) it offers over industrial scale farming we should move back to it.
I’ve seen a chicken who escaped a fox. It lived for DAYS. I’d take a battery cage over that. But I do take your point to heart.
100%. My home state has free range laws and I fully support them. Our eggs went up about $1/dozen, not exactly a big deal. I would 100% support humane treatment regulations that nominally increase the price of meat products.
And I agree about feeding animals antibiotics. I understood why they did it in the first place, but now that we know it’s harmful it needs to stop.
i have empathy. cows giving birth and producing milk isn’t abuse.
Makes sense you are a pro lifer
i’m a what?
A person who thinks it’s okay to force pregnancy and birth onto other life forms. In the US we call these assholes “republicans”
everyone thinks that’s ok: how could we have beer, bread, fruits, or veggies without it? that’s not a republican, it’s just a human.
Ah yes the “well plants are alive too!” Argument that never worked before and still doesn’t
when you set the standard, and i meet it, then you change the standard, that’s called “moving the goalposts.”
I mean disagree all you want but biologically speaking plants are life. And also biologically speaking a lot of plants have some form of “pain” reflex where they can react to damage. However that argument being a stretch is also true. It does work in some circumstances, mostly when you have a militant vegan insisting all life should be protected and no life should be ended for food (has happened to me once so by no means is this a likely event but it shows that the argument does work on very rare occasions)
On a slightly related note: from a genetic perspective fungi (as in mushrooms) are a lot closer to animals than they are to “other” plants. Not trying to use it as an argument or anything just a fun tidbit of trivia while we are on the topic.