Is there any veracity to the claim that “the PSL covered up SA allegations”? I hear it a lot in discussions surrounding the PSL. I wanna know if this is a valid concern
Is there any veracity to the claim that “the PSL covered up SA allegations”? I hear it a lot in discussions surrounding the PSL. I wanna know if this is a valid concern
I know you’re trying to make a joke, but isn’t this a little uncomfortably close to what happened in Philadelphia?
https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Party_for_Socialism_and_Liberation
Is it only “believe women” when it’s politically convenient?
yes, communist men can be fucking gross when it comes to facing the reality that this occurs in many orgs.
What he said was “the entire PSL”, not a branch, and that’s kind of the thing about these accusations, that they are raised to try to claim that the entire Party participated or even had any awareness of the reality of the situation in whichever specific chapter, which is not true. Maupin is a real example of what is being insinuated here, with the central leadership being aware of and covering up his actions, among other complicit acts.
I’m not batting for the branch here, cut it off and burn it for all I care, but we need to be clear about the real scope of what happened, and the implicit meaning of “PSL shields predators” is that a Maupin-like situation is happening or something else (like the Catholic Church method) where the PSL has any involvement. No such accusation has been made concretely that I have ever seen, even though insinuations to that effect get made all the time.
The national Twitter account, pslweb, publicly doxed the alleged victim in Philadelphia. The current VP pick signed the letter denying the alleged victim’s claim of SA ( https://www.gnvinfo.com/psl-president-candidate-claudia-de-la-cruz-responds-to-infamous-steven-powers-case/ ).
There are something like 5 cities with issues named in the prolewiki article, a source that’s pretty friendly to PSL.
I don’t hate PSL, but it’s super gross to act like there isn’t a kernel of truth here. Maybe it’s an issue with organizing in the U$ as a whole, I don’t know, but it’s fucked up to ignore it.
Just a clarification :p we aren’t necessarily friendly (or unfriendly) to any party, but we also can only write about what we can back up. In the case of PSL’s controversy section ref 14 is a huge repository of many primary accounts, though I haven’t followed their own links, but I would start with that catalog as it has tons more links that I saw
Thanks for the clarification!
I forgot to mention it also comes down to who edits a page and what they want to say. We know for example from someone who tried out with PSL that they’re not great at all on indigenous issues (but no party is in the US) but they haven’t got around to editing that in.
Fair enough!
Sure, that’s more like the “Catholic Church method”, as I called it, so then insinuations about the whole organization on the basis of that case are warranted.
That said, doesn’t the denial dox use the (potentially) real name of the girl who the boyfriend cheated on the alleged victim with, who the alleged victim alleged was another victim? The article only mentions that person by name in one place and doesn’t mention outing or doxxing. I don’t know, this is hard to follow.
I do need to defend myself though that I absolutely did not say anything should be ignored, I was simply saying that the scope of the claims and people’s actions should be kept in mind. It was PSL stepping in to deny this that is potentially the problem with “PSL” as an organization rather than “PSL Philadelphia” or whichever other chapter. Am I making sense? If some guy commits a murder, that doesn’t mean his whole household was complicit in it unless they actually do things to help him (accomplish it, get away with it, etc.). What I am saying is that if it was the guy (chapter) acting on his own, put him on trial and sentence him appropriately. It’s only if the household (overall organization) seemingly intervened at some point in the process that pronouncements like “the household is guilty” becomes relevant. And then you kindly provided evidence toward that latter end, so I agree with you that such pronouncements are relevant.
Thanks for the measured reply! It’s easy for me to get heated when I feel like I’m getting boxed into a position I don’t really hold.
No need for a defense of yourself re my “ignored” comment - apologies for insinuating that you were. That’s more of a rhetorical device reflecting my frustration with the topic as a whole.
On the doxxing, I think “Griselda” (the alleged victim’s pseudonym) did name the other girl involved in at least a Twitter post. There’s a screenshot of a Twitter post in one of those docs where she’s asking pslweb to take down her own real name, and I think they had her name in the now-removed letter that was signed.
Idk, this shit is complicated and there’s way too much to read.
*One edit: regarding your chapter/national split, I mostly agree, but I think a situation poorly handled by a local chapter still does reflect poorly on the national org. They’re the local representative of the national org.
Thanks for clearing things up.
Yeah, I probably should have specified that this is true, but I was trying to avoid getting too in the weeds and made an error. My thing is that a chapter going to hell without the direct worsening of things by the national org is more a problem of negligence or poor construction of their onboarding systems, etc. rather than being culpable themselves of harboring abusers. Both are still harmful behaviors and should be treated as such and it’s possible PSL did both (the case is very murky, as you say), but I just want to be clear on the standards I’m asserting for guilt since it isn’t something one should speak lightly on.
Fair enough!
I can not believe u just made me read several long ass articles about a woman who was salty she got cheated on and decided to take revenge by having her ex kicked from psl. Like even IF literally everything she said was true i dont think he even did anything illegal (tho certainly enough to get kicked from an org) but there is no evidence at all that anything is true, u and every article makes it sound like this guy is beyond any doubt a rapists, like its just like any other scandal of a rape coverup we have heard about, but its literally just her voice against his and there is no reason at all to believe either, and i (and i hope everyone else) am not inclined to treat someone as one of the worst kinds of people there are just because someone said so.
Considering how long it took me to work thru this one i dont really feel like looking at all the other incidents in other branches listed in the source for the article u linked but the Philadelphia story is just a nothing burger, it bothers me so much that someone can just be like “actually PSL sucks they cover for rapists” and then im worried cuz i dont want to vote for or be part of the so called “Predator Support League” so i want to look into it and like an hour of reading later its just nothing like literally nothing and im kinda upset.
I didn’t make you do shit.
As much evidence exists here as in the Tara Reade case.
i mean u didnt put a gun to my head, but, i would think anyone with a conscience would read about something like this and i would think u know that.